Thai bureaucracy is relatively simple and straightforward - why complain?

[Falconator]

Why do people complain so much about Thai immigration bureaucracy and things like 90-day check-ins and visa extensions?

 

Things are far worse in the US.

 

1. DMV visits, particularly in California, are far worse than Thai immigration offices.

2. Every year, US tax filing season causes 100 times more stress than annual Thai visa extensions and visa runs do.

3. And don't forget about the infamous USCIS. Ever tried immigrating to the US? You'll never complain about Thai immigration again.

4. Police reports, insurance, the medical system, and more.

 

OTOH, I've found Thailand to be fairly straightforward, simple, and efficient.

The mai pen rai mentality means Thais are not sticklers about rules, unlike Americans.

 

So what's with all the complaining here?

[jabis]

Not to point out the obvious, but not everyone is from US here 

[ukrules]

19 minutes ago, Falconator said:

OTOH, I've found Thailand to be fairly straightforward, simple, and efficient.

You're only qualified to comment on this if you already have PR in Thailand.

 

I know for sure that you don't based on what you're saying above.

[Mitkof Island]

Numerous reasons. Boredom they need something to bitch and moan about. They enjoy bashing all things Thai yet refuse to leave tends to be the most common reason. Reason # 3 Its all about me, me and me i am a foreigner therefore i refuse to follow rules and do as i please. Reason #3 is why the visas are becoming more difficult. Want them to get even worse ? Continue believing you are the boss here and not Thailand.

I never had a problem following the visa regulations. But many including on YouTube are making a BIG deal out of nothing. Mostly to attract views. If you believe its that bad and the lame argument the Thais don,t want foreigners anymore. Maybe its possible they just don,t want you.

[BobBKK]

You have to check in every 90 days in US?  TM30's too?  forget tax we are talking people who visit etc. 100 posts shows how long you have been here.

[Carib]

Pfffffffffffffffffff

 

[legend49]

7 hours ago, jabis said:

Not to point out the obvious, but not everyone is from US here 

Or wants to be if not white.

[dotpoom]

7 hours ago, ukrules said:

You're only qualified to comment on this if you already have PR in Thailand.

 

I know for sure that you don't based on what you're saying above.

What is PR...is it "permanent residency"...Why do you say he would need that to qualify him to have an opinion on the subject he posted about?

[eggers]

Think the main issue w/ Thai Immi, is inconsistency..

The rules & laws not applied consistency, one office treats situ differently to anor,

even officers in same office apply different actions!!!

Plus, requirements not clearly explained or outline...get half info!!

[Falconator]

3 minutes ago, eggers said:

Think the main issue w/ Thai Immi, is inconsistency..

The rules & laws not applied consistency, one office treats situ differently to anor,

even officers in same office apply different actions!!!

Plus, requirements not clearly explained or outline...get half info!!

Same with different US state laws.

 

Same with American police officers from different departments.

 

it's not that bad. That's why the Thai system has so many loopholes.

[Falconator]

6 hours ago, BobBKK said:

You have to check in every 90 days in US?  TM30's too?  forget tax we are talking people who visit etc. 100 posts shows how long you have been here.

 

Checking in every 90 days for half a day at most when the queue is long - that's a breeze compared to what Americans have to go though every new calendar year even when you multiply that by 4.

 

In the US, every new calendar year, we are faced with the extreme stress of having to deal with a whole bunch of confusing forms and paperwork, and we have to choke up hundreds of dollars to get all that done just to figure out how much we owe to the government. The IRS basically thinks that it's your responsibility to figure out what you owe them, but if you don't, they'll garnish your wages and could even put you in jail. Thais face far less stress doing their taxes.

 

In the US, we have to keep popping into the local DMV offices for all-day waits and deal with very rude staff.

 

Thais are efficient, believe me. Have you ever seen how India and the Philippines function? Thailand is pretty darn efficient compared to them.

 

[Falconator]

Assuming most posters here are Brits, Euros, and Aussies, are your countries really that free of bureaucracy?

 

In the US, you have to go through all this nonsense every single year just to be able to function in society. You have to spend WEEKS just to FILE your taxes, you have to get MANY different types of insurance, and you have to drive to get to work (time and money needed for drivers licenses, car registration, car insurance, license plates, and more). If you don't, you're screwed.

 

In Thailand, you have to do a bunch of things every year too, but it's far less stress and less time-consuming.

 

In the US, you have to go through immense amounts of paperwork in order to get these types of insurance that every single functional American is supposed to have.

1. Car insurance (police will screw you over if you don't)

2. Health insurance (absolute must-have for all Americans, until recently we were fined hundreds of dollars for not having it)

3. Property insurance (all homeowners and renters are supposed to have it)

 

Everything comes with extremely long fine print agreements that you have to sign.

If you don't get insurance, you're breaking the law and the US government will screw you over for that.

 

What about insurance in Thailand? In practice, nobody cares if you have it despite all the talk about foreigners being required to get health insurance.

And when you do get it, it's fast and easy.

 

[Falconator]

Tell me if any of you have to go through any of this nonsense annually in Thailand.

 

Thai immigration doesn't even come close.

 

DMV

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/09/us/dmv-california-wait-times.html

 

IRS

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/american-tax-returns-dont-need-be-painful/586369/

[Suradit69]

6 hours ago, BobBKK said:

100 posts shows how long you have been here.

There are many people who have "been here" for a long time without ever posting on Thai Visa or even knowing TV exists. 

[wwest5829]

50 minutes ago, eggers said:

Think the main issue w/ Thai Immi, is inconsistency..

The rules & laws not applied consistency, one office treats situ differently to anor,

even officers in same office apply different actions!!!

Plus, requirements not clearly explained or outline...get half info!!

Agreed. If you want to compare that with the US requirements, be my guest. No way would different immigration offices gave the ability to decide for themselves which requirements will be enforced or ”interpreted” by a local immigration office. Try anything like the unnerving steps I had to go through in Chiang Mai this year for my Extension of Stay (years ???? and the immigration boss would be hauled into court to explain the deviation from the law and/or directives coming out of the capital.

[Falconator]

I think I just realized how easy Europeans have it.

 

Americans love talking about how cheap healthcare and education costs in Thailand are, but Europeans all complain about them. Seriously, $1k-2k per semester for higher education is a steal that you can't get in America. $1k for a hospital visit? Good luck getting that in the US.

[LivinLOS]

36 minutes ago, Falconator said:

Assuming most posters here are Brits, Euros, and Aussies, are your countries really that free of bureaucracy?

 

I set up a base in the UK and do business all over Europe.. 

In the 5 years in the UK I have not once had to go to a government office, car purchase ?? Post away a bit of paper.. Driving license ?? All online ?? Road tax.. same.. Insurance.. same.. Corporate accounts, VAT, personal accounts ??? All same.. 

In fact I administer cross border labour supply on 10s of men weekly.. All the rules online, no visits to departments, etc etc etc.. 

So yeah.. Theres no comparison really.. 

[wwest5829]

26 minutes ago, Falconator said:

Tell me if any of you have to go through any of this nonsense annually in Thailand.

 

Thai immigration doesn't even come close.

 

DMV

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/09/us/dmv-california-wait-times.html

 

IRS

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/american-tax-returns-dont-need-be-painful/586369/

Stay on the topic, which is immigration not the Department of Motor Vehicles. My issue was not knowing if I would be approved this year due to one month out of the last 12 being below the 65,000 baht required monthly income (not consistent with Bangkok directives not all offices requiring 12 months proof this year as the strict interpretation of existing Thai law was announced only in Feb. 2019). Lack of consistency and forward notice are big items. The 90 day report? OK but note Thai mobile, banks, Driver’s License and car registration, immigration already have my address. I have no issue being required to fill in a TM-30 upon re-entering the country (even though immigration required this on the form when arriving at the airport) but... Give me a break...new TM-30 every time I leave Chiang Mai province overnight and am returning to the address on record? 

[wombat]

Thai bureaucracy is relatively simple and straightforward - 
yes it is...their country their rules, don't think to much.

[Pilotman]

7 hours ago, BobBKK said:

You have to check in every 90 days in US?  TM30's too?  forget tax we are talking people who visit etc. 100 posts shows how long you have been here.

and there you have your your answer OP.  TVs whingers and naysayers will be out in force to rubbish your views based on how many posts you have on this forum. You could have lived here for 50 years, but it won't count. I agree with you by the way and I'm a Brit.  

[transam]

18 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

and there you have your your answer OP.  TVs whingers and naysayers will be out in force to rubbish your views based on how many posts you have on this forum. You could have lived here for 50 years, but it won't count. I agree with you by the way and I'm a Brit.  

Well if he had been here 50 years and rarely posts the few times he does should be a cracker, but alas in this case it was not to be.....

[BobBKK]

45 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

and there you have your your answer OP.  TVs whingers and naysayers will be out in force to rubbish your views based on how many posts you have on this forum. You could have lived here for 50 years, but it won't count. I agree with you by the way and I'm a Brit.  

"Thais are efficient" cummon  lol

[Unify]

2 hours ago, Falconator said:

 

Checking in every 90 days for half a day at most when the queue is long - that's a breeze compared to what Americans have to go though every new calendar year even when you multiply that by 4.

 

In the US, every new calendar year, we are faced with the extreme stress of having to deal with a whole bunch of confusing forms and paperwork, and we have to choke up hundreds of dollars to get all that done just to figure out how much we owe to the government. The IRS basically thinks that it's your responsibility to figure out what you owe them, but if you don't, they'll garnish your wages and could even put you in jail. Thais face far less stress doing their taxes.

 

In the US, we have to keep popping into the local DMV offices for all-day waits and deal with very rude staff.

 

Thais are efficient, believe me. Have you ever seen how India and the Philippines function? Thailand is pretty darn efficient compared to them.

 

As Americans living in Thailand, we still have to confront those confusing tax forms. I would be happy to trade that for Thai bureaucracy. But I don't get to. I have to add the Thai paperwork to the American.

 

America is, in general, much more consistent with the rules, than here in Thailand. The recent thread on the combo method for a retirement extension being denied in CM, is evidence of that.

[Brunolem]

The US, the US, the US... give me a break and have a look at France! 

 

Last time I was there, I was not authorized to open a bank account... in my home country! because I don't pay taxes over there (since I live in Thailand) and in France when you don't pay taxes, you don't exist and you have no rights. 

 

And other formalities are not easier. 

 

I filed for retirement in January, 7 months ago, and I am still waiting for my pension because my file is still being instructed! 

 

And I won't even mention getting a visa for a Thai to visit France... 

[Henricus]

3 hours ago, eggers said:

Plus, requirements not clearly explained or outline...get half info!!

learn Thai

[dimitriv]

3 hours ago, Falconator said:

Assuming most posters here are Brits, Euros, and Aussies, are your countries really that free of bureaucracy?

 

 

In the Netherlands: It will take some time to get all the papers for a visum to bring your wife to NL. But after living together for 3 years she can get a Dutch passport. At that moment she is 100% Dutch. Even after a divorce she can stay, because she is 100% Dutch. She has the right to work, to vote, to buy land. Everything Dutch citizens are also allowed to do.

 

Try that in Thailand. Even when you are married for 30 years they still track you with DM30's. You have to report yourself every 3 months. Every year a new visum and proving that you have enough money. Not allowed to buy land. When you divorce you will have no right to stay. Even if you payed tax for 30 years and invested a lot of time to learn the language.

 

You will always be a second class citizen with no rights. You can also call it "guest", maybe that sounds more friendly. But it means the same, you have no rights. You are always here temporarily.

 

[gamini]

11 hours ago, ukrules said:

You're only qualified to comment on this if you already have PR in Thailand.

 

I know for sure that you don't based on what you're saying above.

Why not. 20 minutes a year to do my retirement visa and five minutes to do a 90 day reporting.

Just changeD to a marriage visa. More documents needed but it was a breeze helped by friendly immigration officials. About 40 minutes and didn't have to go back a second time a friend went and picked up my passport

[ianezy0]

2 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

In fact I administer cross border labour supply on 10s of men weekly.. All the rules online, no visits to departments, etc etc etc

Ah so you are the one. Please inform them that hiding in trucks is very dangerous ????

[Thingamabob]

No complaints. Re visa extensions just do what your local IO tells you to do and don't argue, otherwise enjoy good food, easy going life style  and nice people.

[1FinickyOne]

I have been doing pretty much the same thing for 20 years... seems pretty easy.

 

my guess is that many brits and aussies have been caught up in an unanticipated currency devaluation and that has them hurting and in a bad mood.