'Many killed' in shooting at Walmart in El Paso; suspect in custody

[pegman]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

So if I get this guy straight, voices in favor of addressing the gun violence crisis in the U.S. with actual policy changes are stupid. Wow. 

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

 

Well, that's no worse than Trump coming out today saying he wants the responce to be tighter immigration laws. So reward the mass killer.

Edited August 5, 2019 by pegman

[Slip]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

More security!?!

Dayton was a great example of having just about the best possible security possible. 
The police responded in mere seconds.

Yet still very many dead and injured.

No, "more security" "gaming" "mental health" are mere diversions from getting to the real ROOTS of the problem. 

Also back to politics.

Arming teachers after Parkland. That was proposed. That's very controversial. You can't escape politics in any discussion of any kind regarding possible solutions to the gun violence problem in the U.S. It's necessary. 

Jing I don't know why you used the word "gaming" there.  I presume in reference to an earlier comment that I missed.  But it reminded me of what certain elements of Trump's base attitude towards this stuff is:

 

This poster and several others lambasted the shooter for his “shitty” and “0 effort manifesto”.

 

Ever since the Christchurch shooting spree, 8chan users have commented regularly on Brenton Tarrant’s high bodycount, and made references to their desire to “beat his high score”.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-paso-shooting-and-the-gamification-of-terror/?fbclid=IwAR2q3prF1vAX8xacFYEq-Nwhyf-gBLxt4N-DF04Zk3qN3l0caj4kJYNcdVA

 

A lot has been written about the rise of the "alt-right" and domestic terrorism, as I'm sure you are aware. I'm sure you are also aware of the use of the internet to spread white supremacist tropes of that nature.  Meanwhile some posters think we should "keep the politics out of it".  Thoughts and prayers indeed.   

[candide]

36 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

Unfortunately, it's snoops using non-standard data, they discard cases with less than eight killed,  wow. Four is generally accepted and US laws states 3 killed. Who checks snoops?

 

Check out Wiki under 'definitions'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting

 

Here is the rise in the number mass shooting deaths under Obama, (from Stanford University)

 

 

 

Thanks for this. Actually I just found out there isn't a standard definition of mass shooting, i.e. in this article by the Rand corporation, they found for 2015: 7 cases in Mother Jone's database, 371 in Mass Shooting Traker, and 65 in Stanford database.

The article cites a study that comes up with the following stats (see graph)

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/mass-shootings.html

 

 

[pegman]

Hand gun, big magazine & assault rifle ban. One year amnesty. 5 year mandatory minimums. $5k rewards for info leading to conviction.

[Slip]

6 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

Yeah trust me you don’t even want to get her started. I think it’s a she just because of that screen name.

No he's a bloke.  No need to keep making personal comments about him.  I have to report my own post now. ????

Edited August 5, 2019 by Slip

[Mel52]

Actually President Trump is addressing the nation right now and he’s actually making sense tonight he must be on his meds today. Honestly I don’t hate Trump and I don’t necessarily dislike him either but I haven’t drank the cool aid either for any of them. Or either political party. He’s actually trying to talk about bipartisan ideas and cultural changes and stopping the hatred and trying to work together for once. I think Trump is handling this crisis in a professional way at least whether you like him or not. I mean when was the last time we ever had a perfect President probably never, you can’t blame it on Trump you blame the ass hole who did it and all of us need to take a look in the mirror.

 

 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Slip said:

Jing I don't know why you used the word "gaming" there.  I presume in reference to an earlier comment that I missed.  But it reminded me of what certain elements of Trump's base attitude towards this stuff is:

 

This poster and several others lambasted the shooter for his “shitty” and “0 effort manifesto”.

 

Ever since the Christchurch shooting spree, 8chan users have commented regularly on Brenton Tarrant’s high bodycount, and made references to their desire to “beat his high score”.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-paso-shooting-and-the-gamification-of-terror/?fbclid=IwAR2q3prF1vAX8xacFYEq-Nwhyf-gBLxt4N-DF04Zk3qN3l0caj4kJYNcdVA

 

A lot has been written about the rise of the "alt-right" and domestic terrorism, as I'm sure you are aware. I'm sure you are also aware of the use of the internet to spread white supremacist tropes of that nature.  Meanwhile some posters think we should "keep the politics out of it".  Thoughts and prayers indeed.   

I meant video games. They were actually just mentioned by the weak tea speech from the current occupant of the white house. 

[mogandave]

Greater and more stringent background checks (already buried by the Repubs and also veto threatened by Trump); no-one with any criminal record can own a gun; restrictions on type of guns under a certain age; hunting licence needed for some guns.............
 
BUT as long as the Constitution allows that all Americans have the right to bear arms, then not much will change. IMO a stupid "law" that has it's origins way back when, when times were different.

Not sure what greater and more stringent means, but I would certainly agree with more effective checks. I don’t think frequency is an issue. But it’s my position that the fees for background checks should be paid by the state. I would bet the current bill being held up and puts an undue burden on gun owners, particularly poor gun owners.

I don’t believe convicted felons are allowed purchase guns. Any criminal record? I’m no fan of criminals, but that might be s little overreaching. Also, juvenile files are sealed.

The different kinds of guns thing is silly. A decent hunting rifle will shoot as fast and with more accuracy than a POC AK knock-off. I had a semi-automatic rifle and a 12 gage shotgun when I was 13 or 14 as did most of my friends, although my friends mostly had 20 gage.

Compelling people to by a hunting license to buy a gun is a regressive tax. Why should only the rich own guns?

I like guns and I like that people can own them. I don’t have any now but a couple nice pellet guns.

I just don’t see guns as the problem. It’s like blaming syringes for heroin overdoses. The problem is that we are producing people that want to kill strangers.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Mel52 said:

Actually Present Trump is addressing the nation right now and he’s actually making sense tonight he must be on his meds today. Honestly I don’t hate Trump and I don’t necessarily dislike him either but I haven’t drank the cool aid either for any of them. Or either political party. He’s actually trying to talk about bipartisan ideas and cultural changes and stopping the hatred and trying to work together for once. I think Trump is handling this crisis in a professional way at least whether you like him or not. I mean when was the last time we ever had a perfect President probably never, you can’t blame it on Trump you blame the ass hole who did it and all of us need to take a look in the mirror.

 

Yes, that is his MO. First sow the division or mess up things, then pretend to be the reasonable guy who wants to make it all right.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Mel52 said:

Actually Present Trump is addressing the nation right now and he’s actually making sense tonight he must be on his meds today. Honestly I don’t hate Trump and I don’t necessarily dislike him either but I haven’t drank the cool aid either for any of them. Or either political party. He’s actually trying to talk about bipartisan ideas and cultural changes and stopping the hatred and trying to work together for once. I think Trump is handling this crisis in a professional way at least whether you like him or not. I mean when was the last time we ever had a perfect President probably never, you can’t blame it on Trump you blame the ass hole who did it and all of us need to take a look in the mirror.

 

The speech signaled no strong action. 

He didn't call for comprehensive background checks.

He didn't order Mitch to pass the bill he buried that came from the house.

Nothing at all about gun restrictions.

He didn't refer to his own racist rhetoric giving encouragement to the white nationalist terrorists.

The usually blah blah about mental health and video games.

For those that thought things were going to be different now -- FORGET IT!

Not with the current occupant of the white house.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Mel52 said:

Yeah well this ain’t other countries.

If you don't like the answer don't ask the question. Or come with some real reasons, this retord is ridiculous.

[Slip]

5 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

Actually President Trump is addressing the nation right now and he’s actually making sense tonight he must be on his meds today. Honestly I don’t hate Trump and I don’t necessarily dislike him either but I haven’t drank the cool aid either for any of them. Or either political party. He’s actually trying to talk about bipartisan ideas and cultural changes and stopping the hatred and trying to work together for once. I think Trump is handling this crisis in a professional way at least whether you like him or not. I mean when was the last time we ever had a perfect President probably never, you can’t blame it on Trump you blame the ass hole who did it and all of us need to take a look in the mirror.

 

 

I thought you didn't want to talk about the politics of the matter.  Seems like a new shill has arrived.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

Yeah well this ain’t other countries.

I hear this a lot from RIGHT wingers.

It's like they're saying our country is incompetent to do basic things that all other advanced nations can do, such as control guns and provide health care access for all.

I don't get it. It's very depressing to hear that.

[Mel52]

No he's a bloke.  No need to keep making personal comments about him.  I have to report my own post now. [emoji53]

It’s not personal it’s just some of the really stupid comments during a national tragedy and pushing that political agenda and how America is such a terrible country and all that which I’m just not reading anymore.

[Mel52]

I thought you didn't want to talk about the politics of the matter.  Seems like a new shill has arrived.

I’m not

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, that is his MO. First sow the division or mess up things, then pretend to be the reasonable guy who wants to make it all right.

Exactly. It's insidious. 

[Slip]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I meant video games. They were actually just mentioned by the weak tea speech from the current occupant of the white house. 

Thanks.  Actually that is what I was referring to though.  The whole 'gamer' thing is part of all this nonsense.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Mel52 said:

I’m not

But you are. 

We have been trained to detect gaslighting when we see it.

Saying the "trump" speech which was a political speech was wonderful is by it's very nature a POLITICAL response. 

[Mel52]

If you don't like the answer don't ask the question. Or come with some real reasons, this retord is ridiculous.

I didn’t ask and again that’s not the point but apparently you didn’t read some of the posts I didn’t read them all either

[mogandave]

So 'what would happen if they stopped selling guns right now?' is not a question?

They who? Gun shops, sporting goods stores. individuals, aloo of the above?

All kinds of guns or just some kinds?

Are all existing guns confiscated or still in circulation?

What happened when “they” stopped selling booze?

[Mel52]

They who? Gun shops, sporting goods stores. individuals, aloo of the above?

All kinds of guns or just some kinds?

Are all existing guns confiscated or still in circulation?

What happened when “they” stopped selling booze?

Well my point was that it’s just not doable right now unfortunately without making the violence worse in the short term but like I said that’s why I don’t want to get to much into the politics behind it. The long term solutions are going to be tough if we really want to stop the violence.

[Slip]

22 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Not sure what greater and more stringent means, but I would certainly agree with more effective checks. I don’t think frequency is an issue. But it’s my position that the fees for background checks should be paid by the state. I would bet the current bill being held up and puts an undue burden on gun owners, particularly poor gun owners.

I don’t believe convicted felons are allowed purchase guns. Any criminal record? I’m no fan of criminals, but that might be s little overreaching. Also, juvenile files are sealed.

The different kinds of guns thing is silly. A decent hunting rifle will shoot as fast and with more accuracy than a POC AK knock-off. I had a semi-automatic rifle and a 12 gage shotgun when I was 13 or 14 as did most of my friends, although my friends mostly had 20 gage.

Compelling people to by a hunting license to buy a gun is a regressive tax. Why should only the rich own guns?

I like guns and I like that people can own them. I don’t have any now but a couple nice pellet guns.

I just don’t see guns as the problem. It’s like blaming syringes for heroin overdoses. The problem is that we are producing people that want to kill strangers.

Quote

I just don’t see guns as the problem. It’s like blaming syringes for heroin overdoses. The problem is that we are producing people that want to kill strangers.

Well, it's like blaming people for injecting other people with heroin overdoses against their will if we are to be accurate.

[chokrai]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The speech signaled no strong action. 

He didn't call for comprehensive background checks.

He didn't order Mitch to pass the bill he buried that came from the house.

Nothing at all about gun restrictions.

He didn't refer to his own racist rhetoric giving encouragement to the white nationalist terrorists.

The usually blah blah about mental health and video games.

For those that thought things were going to be different now -- FORGET IT!

Not with the current occupant of the white house.

Why didn't Mr Hope and Change do something about it? Maybe because he was too busy race baiting along with his buddy Al Sharpton who he had at the Whitehouse a couple of hundred times.

[Mel52]

But some people just don’t seem to understand that they think it’s an easy fix just make all guns magically disappear today.

 

 

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

They who? Gun shops, sporting goods stores. individuals, aloo of the above?

All kinds of guns or just some kinds?

Are all existing guns confiscated or still in circulation?

What happened when “they” stopped selling booze?

 

Ask Mel, he is the one who posed the question.

[mogandave]

Well, it's like blaming people for injecting other people with heroin overdoses against their will if we are to be accurate.

Almost, but no, it would actually be like blaming syringes if people were using syringes to inject other people with heroine overdoses against their will.

That makes it perfect, thanks!

[mogandave]

Nobody said it was an easy fix. You're making stuff up. 

Calling on Trump to tell Mitch to pass the bill seems like an easy fix, no?

Except passing the bill will do little or no good.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Calling on Trump to tell Mitch to pass the bill seems like an easy fix, no?

Except passing the bill will do little or no good.

 

I never said passing that one bill would fix everything.

But comprehensive background checks is a good policy and overwhelmingly popular with all Americans. 

So yes that aspect would simple for "trump" to do.

The republicans senators are all his lackeys by now.

They will do what he says.

But he didn't say. 

Inexcusable. 

His speech was WORTHLESS. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Jingthing

[CharlieH]

A number of troll comments/bickering and off topic posts have been removed.

[mogandave]

I never said passing that one bill would fix everything.

But comprehensive background checks is a good policy and overwhelmingly popular with all Americans. 

So yes that aspect would simple for "trump" to do.

The republicans senators are all his lackeys by now.

They will do what he says.

But he didn't say. 

Inexcusable. 

His speech was WORTHLESS. 

 

How did you like Beto’s?

 

Is this about the same bill the dems didn’t pass in 2013, yes?