Chiang Mai, TM30 rules changed, domestic travel

[Vacuum]

3 hours ago, davehowden said:

So if I check into a local hotel at 2:00 pm and leave at 9:00 am the next morning I do not have to report are you saying ?

If you return home (your usual address) before 2 pm the next day, no report.

[Srikcir]

24 minutes ago, davehowden said:

Why do you stress "different Province". I thought the latest Chiang Mai interpretation of the rules is that even if I stay in Chiang Mai city for the night but am normally resident in Hang Dong they require the TM30 to be updated ?

I only relate my experience with CW Immigration.

[davehowden]

4 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

If you return home (your usual address) before 2 pm the next day, no report.

And just how would immigration know what time I returned to my home ?

[davehowden]

3 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

I only relate my experience with CW Immigration.

So did CM immigration tell you it was only "out of province" overnight stays that needed to be reported ? 

[Vacuum]

2 minutes ago, davehowden said:

And just how would immigration know what time I returned to my home ?

They wouldn't know, it just goes to show how well their tracking plans are thought out.  lol

[Peterw42]

There is only one TM30 that matters !!!! That is the TM30 that shows you are back home, the TM30 that matches your 90day report address, your extension address, your COR address. So long as you have that in your hand or in the system on the day you visit immigration, all is right with the world, The other 127 TM30s for places you have/have not done are irrelevant.

In the worst case scenario, visit the TM30 desk before you visit the 90day or extension desk.

[jackdd]

45 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

If you leave the Province for more than 24 hours you must report your return. CW Immigration confirmed this with me on my extension trip last week, albeit they failed to correctly state more than 24 hours. But it's very clear on the form.

So your hotel check-in and check-out times are meaningless with regard to the TM30 requirement.

I think you are confused, because this is not what the TM30 form are the relevant law says.

[Suradit69]

19 hours ago, JimGant said:

Why, do you question jackdd's report? 

 

Did you even bother to read who he quoted when he posted his response?  It wasn't jackdd. 

 

And he is correct that the volume of nonsense masquerading as fact has increased exponentially. it's becoming impossible for anyone to get answers to even the simplest questions as pages of responders post obviously incorrect answers or swamp the threads with irrelevant, inaccurate or facetious anecdotal silliness.

 

Rather than making issues regarding the TM.30 remotely understandable, you have to wade through posts like this:

 

20 hours ago, OJAS said:

We seem to be rapidly getting to the stage where even stepping a single pace outside the property where we live will, in the case of us foreigners, necessitate an immediate trip to our local immigration office clutching an updated TM30.

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by Suradit69

[Srikcir]

2 minutes ago, davehowden said:

So did CM immigration tell you it was only "out of province" overnight stays that needed to be reported ? 

I don't get my extensions from Chiang Mai province as I reside in Bangkok province.

Hence I go to Chaeng Wattanna Immigration for my extension.  http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/intro1.html

[newatthis]

7 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

If you return home (your usual address) before 2 pm the next day, no report.

The only problem in that situation would be the TM30 completed by the hotel.  [if you stayed at one]. For immigration your latest address would then be the hotel and not your usual home address.

More knowledgeable posters can help here: I don't think the hotels tell immigration when you leave; only the arrival.

That is probably why some IO's require the TM30s when you come home.

[thequietman]

We could have a lot of fun with this guys, if we just put our collective heads together. ????

 

Stamps and envelopes are cheap here. Start sending them in on a daily basis. You can say you left the province when you didn't. Think of the thousands of letters with TM30 inside they would have to open and enter into the system.

 

Come on, we have nothing better to do that stick it to the man. You retired pensioners, surely you have the time! ???? 

 

Who's with me ???????? ????

[stephenterry]

8 minutes ago, newatthis said:

The only problem in that situation would be the TM30 completed by the hotel.  [if you stayed at one]. For immigration your latest address would then be the hotel and not your usual home address.

More knowledgeable posters can help here: I don't think the hotels tell immigration when you leave; only the arrival.

That is probably why some IO's require the TM30s when you come home.

That makes a lot of sense. On the assumption that IMM require you declare your whereabouts  - and if you stay in a hotel and a TM 30 is completed by the hotel, that would be your latest address. On reaching back home, you would need to confirm this, presumably by updating the TM30.

 

The fact that you went to visit family and friends outside your province and they never completed a TM 30 means that in the IMM records your whereabouts hasn't changed.

 

Whether IMM would set up a country-wide law requirement that covers private households - i.e. not hotels, guesthouses, retreats, or similar - seems improbable for the simple rationale that it would be impossible to enforce without some whistle-blower bothering to report you and your family.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gonzo the Face]

A "what If " scenario.  What if you go 4 blocks down the street and are in the hospital for 3 days???

[boonrawdcnx]

I wish people would stop posting here and elsewhere about the issue and bring it to the attention of certain people!
I mean there used to be lots of stupid people posting about the illegal visa extensions some agents provided for them!

So somebody who had no idea told you ? And you had nothing better to do then to call the immigration?

Who did you call ? Who talked to you ? Just anybody from the immigration ? Or the people in charge of the TM30?

I just changed address and did a new TM30 !
The woman taking care of my new TM 30 SPECIFICALLY TOLD MY THAI LANDLORD AND MYSELF “ to update the TM30 when returning from abroad within 24hours - no need to update when returning from another province in Thailand - period!




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[AAArdvark]

46 minutes ago, davehowden said:

And just how would immigration know what time I returned to my home ?

They don't know or care.  What they care about is that a hotel did a TM30 which is the last one in the system.  The last one in the system has to be the one with your home address in it.

 

 

[wmlc]

You all have no idea what you are talking about. TM30 is the responsibility of your landlord and not the foreigner. However, local immigration offices will pass the responsibility onto you only at the time of your visa extension. This means they won’t extend your visa unless it’s done. In this case they are charging 800 baht fine and you must submit your lease agreement and signed copy of the landlord’s ID card. A new TM30 is only required to be submitted by your landlord if you leave the country and come back. Therefore, it is your responsibility to inform your landlord. 

 

On the other hand, for domestic travel, if you go to stay in a hotel, that hotel will register you as staying there. When you return to your permanent residence, you will be required to submit a TM28 form notifying immigration you have changed your address again. 

 

I’m so sick and tired of all this TM30 scare mongering and lack of knowledge of the posters who’s post only half the story and only 50% accurate. It’s all the responsibility of your landlord. Supply them with the online link, notify them when you leave the country, and if you change your address inside Thailand, submit the TM28 when you return. If none of these are done, immigration may or may not catch it at your visa extension. If they catch it, take care of it then, pay the fine on behalf of your landlord, make sure you are prepared with the docs just in case, and then deduct it from your rent. If immigration ever check to see if the TM30 was done or not in between your visa extensions, it will be the landlord that will be in trouble not the expat. However, as previously posted, for domestic travel, if you don’t do a TM28 when you return, immigration will fine the expat if they every do a spot check as was done at that Sukhumvit Condo and posted on TV. 

 

Now go and live your lives! Stop this nonsense. 

[AAArdvark]

46 minutes ago, davehowden said:

So did CM immigration tell you it was only "out of province" overnight stays that needed to be reported ? 

CM only mentioned out of province stays but the question of in province stays where someone would actually fill out a TM30, was not brought up.

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, RBOP said:

Headline news: Canada enforces law that all businesses in Alberta must provide posts in front of their shops to tie up your house. 

As I understand it if you take your house with,  then you are still at home so no need to report.  How you take your house with is a mystery to me. Caravan perhaps? 

[AAArdvark]

1 minute ago, wmlc said:

You all have no idea what you are talking about. TM30 is the responsibility of your landlord and not the foreigner. However, local immigration offices will pass the responsibility onto you only at the time of your visa extension. This means they won’t extend your visa unless it’s done. In this case they are charging 800 baht fine and you must submit your lease agreement and signed copy of the landlord’s ID card. A new TM30 is only required to be submitted by your landlord if you leave the country and come back. Therefore, it is your responsibility to inform your landlord. 

 

On the other hand, for domestic travel, if you go to stay in a hotel, that hotel will register you as staying there. When you return to your permanent residence, you will be required to submit a TM28 form notifying immigration you have changed your address again. 

 

I’m so sick and tired of all this TM30 scare mongering and lack of knowledge of the posters who’s post only half the story and only 50% accurate. It’s all the responsibility of your landlord. Supply them with the online link, notify them when you leave the country, and if you change your address inside Thailand, submit the TM28 when you return. If none of these are done, immigration may or may not catch it at your visa extension. If they catch it, take care of it then, pay the fine on behalf of your landlord, make sure you are prepared with the docs just in case, and then deduct it from your rent. If immigration ever check to see if the TM30 was done or not in between your visa extensions, it will be the landlord that will be in trouble not the expat. However, as previously posted, for domestic travel, if you don’t do a TM28 when you return, immigration will fine the expat if they every do a spot check as was done at that Sukhumvit Condo and posted on TV. 

 

Now go and live your lives! Stop this nonsense. 

No, your post is nonsense.  The CM IO specifically said to me that a TM30 is required after an out of province stay.  Others have stated the same about other IOs.  I would be careful calling someone a lair even if you are ignorant of the facts.  

[AAArdvark]

50 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I think you are confused, because this is not what the TM30 form are the relevant law says.

He is not confused as to what he was told.  Perhaps the IO is confused but they are the ones who count.  I was also told the same thing and I can tell you that I was not confused as to what I was told.   I was also not confused as to the poster hung on the wall stating the same thing.

[jackdd]

8 minutes ago, wmlc said:

You all have no idea what you are talking about. TM30 is the responsibility of your landlord and not the foreigner. However, local immigration offices will pass the responsibility onto you only at the time of your visa extension. This means they won’t extend your visa unless it’s done. In this case they are charging 800 baht fine and you must submit your lease agreement and signed copy of the landlord’s ID card. A new TM30 is only required to be submitted by your landlord if you leave the country and come back. Therefore, it is your responsibility to inform your landlord. 

 

On the other hand, for domestic travel, if you go to stay in a hotel, that hotel will register you as staying there. When you return to your permanent residence, you will be required to submit a TM28 form notifying immigration you have changed your address again. 

 

I’m so sick and tired of all this TM30 scare mongering and lack of knowledge of the posters who’s post only half the story and only 50% accurate. It’s all the responsibility of your landlord. Supply them with the online link, notify them when you leave the country, and if you change your address inside Thailand, submit the TM28 when you return. If none of these are done, immigration may or may not catch it at your visa extension. If they catch it, take care of it then, pay the fine on behalf of your landlord, make sure you are prepared with the docs just in case, and then deduct it from your rent. If immigration ever check to see if the TM30 was done or not in between your visa extensions, it will be the landlord that will be in trouble not the expat. However, as previously posted, for domestic travel, if you don’t do a TM28 when you return, immigration will fine the expat if they every do a spot check as was done at that Sukhumvit Condo and posted on TV. 

 

Now go and live your lives! Stop this nonsense. 

You have no idea what you are talking about. Most of your post is just wrong.

[jackdd]

16 minutes ago, boonrawdcnx said:

Who did you call ? Who talked to you ? Just anybody from the immigration ? Or the people in charge of the TM30?

I think the two women who process the TM30s in Chiang Mai aren't even IOs (not sure). They just do what they are told to.

I called 1178, which connects you to the Chiang Mai immigration office if you happen to be in Chiang Mai. The person who answered the phone forwarded the question to another person, i assume an IO.

If you want to confirm it just call them yourself on Tuesday (Monday is a holiday) and let us know if you got the same answer.

[wmlc]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You have no idea what you are talking about. Most of your post is just wrong.

Really? Feel free to come into the law firm, I work at and I’ll show you the examples of all this. Thanks for coming out. TM30 is the responsibility of the landlord or house owner period and end of story. Read the law about it first before you post hearsay. I bet if you went to talk to a different immigration officer, you wood get a different story. 

[newatthis]

19 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Whenever I stay in a resort in Thailand, my Thai partner does the check in registration process. She pays cash for the room and to date, I have never had to show any form of identification. Thus I will not be doing any TM30’s for domestic travel any time soon.


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I think this might be illegal on the part of the hotel and they could be subject to a 10,000 baht fine each offence. But, that's their stupidity; not yours.

[jackdd]

40 minutes ago, wmlc said:

Really? Feel free to come into the law firm, I work at and I’ll show you the examples of all this. Thanks for coming out.

Why can't you show examples for all this here if it were correct? If you wish onsite training you have to pay me.

 

40 minutes ago, wmlc said:

TM30 is the responsibility of the landlord or house owner period and end of story.

I would recommend you start by reading the title of the TM30 form itself which says "House master, owner or possessor". If you rent it in your name you are the possessor. And then there is of course also the definition of "House master" in the immigration act, which states that this is also the tenant.

 

Most of your previous post was about form TM28. This is just not enforced (i think we never had one report of somebody being fined for it), and even if it were enforced, most foreigners in Thailand would be exempt from sections 37 (3) and (4) anyway, so they don't have to report just because they stay somewhere else for 24 hours.

Edited August 10, 2019 by jackdd

[statman78]

1 hour ago, Vacuum said:

If you return home (your usual address) before 2 pm the next day, no report.

This may not be correct. If the hotel submitted a TM 30, as they are required to do, when an IO looks at the system this will show up as  the persons last reported location.  Even if they were there less than 24 hours.  

[Trujillo]

("In this case they are charging 800 baht fine and you must submit your lease agreement and signed copy of the landlord’s ID card."

For your information, when I did my retirement extension at the beginning of this year, the landlord was fined 1,600 baht and I was told I could pay it in lieu of him coming down to the immigration office. That is absolutely what happened to me in Chiang Mai.)

 

To Richard Barrow: 

 

Next time you meet with anyone official, please record the proceedings and make that available.

Also, ask the following please: 

 

1. What crimes is the filing of a TM30 intended to prevent or detect? 

2. How many crimes (and of which nature) has the filing of the TM30 prevented or detected in the past year (or reasonable time frame)? 

3. How many instances of TM30 fines have there been in the past year (or reasonable time frame)? 

 

If they can't provide this information, please request it and ask that they make this information available. 

[Bill97]

This keeps getting better and better. New championship misinformation/bazar opinion thread in the making.


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[billsmart]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

The yellow house book does not make you a resident, actually it says the opposite. The yellow house book is for people who are in Thailand temporarily, so having one with your name in it confirms that you are considered to be in Thailand temporarily.

But immigration law does not have anything to do with house books, this is just not relevant, so neither me nor the IO mentioned it.

We are foreigners and don't have permanent residency status, so the landlord / owner / possessor of the place where we stay has to report us.

 

I asked them this question: I stay in Chiang Mai with my girlfriend, if i travel to another province and stay there at a hotel, does my girlfriend have to submit a TM30 when i return to stay at her place?

They confirmed this, but explained to me that i can report myself upon my return, as explained in my first post.

In the end it doesn't matter if "overnight" or however. What they want is that the last entry in their TM30 database is your current address.

So if another place did a TM30 for you (most hotels will do this), they want a new TM30 when you return. If you stayed at your friends house and he didn't report you, there is obviously no need to inform them when you return, because they never knew you were gone.

Thanks for your response. That has clarified, at least as far as Chiang Mai's interpretation of the rules, the "out-of-province" question. They say it doesn't matter. The only criteria is whether or not a recent TM.30 has been filed about you. That usually does mean an overnight stay, but...who knows?

Registration with a tambian baan and possession of a Yellow Book does not mean you are a "permanent resident." Only very few of us are, and I suspect those that do have permanent residency in Thailand are not subject to the TM.30 rules. So, your response above does not, at least for me, however, clarify the "tambian baan" (Yellow Book) question because, presumably, you are not registered on the tambian baan of your "girlfriend's" house and do not have a Yellow Book for that address.

If anyone else reading these posts have more information on this, please post it.

 

Thanks again...Bill Smart

Phetchabun

Edited August 10, 2019 by billsmart
Additional Information

[jesimps]

19 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Feel free to leave.

Pillock!