Chiang Mai, TM30 rules changed, domestic travel

[JimGant]

24 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

This keeps getting better and better. New championship misinformation/bazar opinion thread in the making.

Hey, this new bozo works in a law firm, thus believing he knows everything. We've had problems with these types before in the discussions on Wills. Obviously, he hasn't followed much of the information on all these TM30 threads (but, understandably). The key factor he's missing is that the tenant can, and in most cases, does the TM30 filing and/or updates.

 

Having said that, the subject of this thread is new rules at Chiang Mai, namely, a new requirement to update your TM30 when returning home from a domestic trip. Heretofore, it was only when returning from abroad. The following quote, from the link in LivingLOS' post, is the substance is this new information (or is that misinformation?):

 

Quote

During a meeting at the India-Thai Chamber of Commerce on Thursday night, Immigration officials from Division 1 at Chaengwattana, made it very clear that a TM30 form has to be filed each and every time a foreigner (non-immigrant) goes away for more than twenty-four hours to another province in Thailand. This is in addition to when the foreigner returns home from abroad.

And, the higher ups, said this was to apply to all Thailand Immigration offices. Well, nice they're now trying to get everyone on the same sheet of music, re TM30's. Not so nice when a pragmatic province like CM, realizing the extra (unnecessary) work, gets trumped. But, hey, I guess the Immigration gurus feel their new online IT reporting system will absorb all this new extra work. Except all those now owing fines will have to come in to pay -- thus potentially overloading the system.

 

But today's misinformation is tomorrow's fact; hyperbole is tomorrow's fact; today's information becomes tomorrow's misinformation. And so on with the TM30 saga. Read as much of this as you can stand; but don't complain that there is so much misinformation (fake news, in today's vernacular), 'cause we only have Immigration, and the individual immigration officers, to blame for all of this.

 

If you want to huff and puff about all the seemingly blowhard postings, then don't read them. Oh, speaking of blowhards: wmic, what is your law firm? I certainly wouldn't like the services of someone who doesn't do his homework.

 

 

[AlfonsV]

" We are foreigners and don't have permanent residency status, so the landlord / owner / possessor of the place where we stay has to report us. "

 

Suppose the friends you are visiting for 3 nights in a small remote village without internet and some 60 km far from the next immigration office, the time to travel there shrinks the time of visit about 50%.

Suppose your host will not report you and nobody knows that you was away from your registered address *BUT* a drunken guy on a motorcycle or a reckless car driver causes an accident which needs a police report. Then your trip is not hidden any more and you and your host will be fined. Right?

[holy cow cm]

2 hours ago, wmlc said:

You all have no idea what you are talking about. TM30 is the responsibility of your landlord and not the foreigner. However, local immigration offices will pass the responsibility onto you only at the time of your visa extension. This means they won’t extend your visa unless it’s done. In this case they are charging 800 baht fine and you must submit your lease agreement and signed copy of the landlord’s ID card. A new TM30 is only required to be submitted by your landlord if you leave the country and come back. Therefore, it is your responsibility to inform your landlord. 

 

On the other hand, for domestic travel, if you go to stay in a hotel, that hotel will register you as staying there. When you return to your permanent residence, you will be required to submit a TM28 form notifying immigration you have changed your address again. 

 

I’m so sick and tired of all this TM30 scare mongering and lack of knowledge of the posters who’s post only half the story and only 50% accurate. It’s all the responsibility of your landlord. Supply them with the online link, notify them when you leave the country, and if you change your address inside Thailand, submit the TM28 when you return. If none of these are done, immigration may or may not catch it at your visa extension. If they catch it, take care of it then, pay the fine on behalf of your landlord, make sure you are prepared with the docs just in case, and then deduct it from your rent. If immigration ever check to see if the TM30 was done or not in between your visa extensions, it will be the landlord that will be in trouble not the expat. However, as previously posted, for domestic travel, if you don’t do a TM28 when you return, immigration will fine the expat if they every do a spot check as was done at that Sukhumvit Condo and posted on TV. 

 

Now go and live your lives! Stop this nonsense. 

And I’m so tired of foreigners who accept a nose ring (buffalo style) and then get smug on ones who like freedom. 

[SunsetT]

21 hours ago, Mahseer said:

My sentiment entirely however should you get caught out you'll be liable for a fine which I believe is in the 1,600baht range (no big deal right?) but there's worse. Your relatives would get hammered for not reporting a farang staying over and their fine would be considerably more. I saw one report of 10,000baht for exactly this 'offence'.

 

What's the latest on online reporting? If it was as painless as 90 day I could handle it.

My online 90 day report was accepted last March before returning to the UK in April. It is still showing today as 'Pending'!  ????

[Autonuaq]

Most foeigners who complain are well educated foreigners.when at home they want people to obey the law and know the law. When they are abroad for some reason they seem to forget all of this.

 

The instruction and obligations are clear and are since 1979 put in place.

The enforcment over the years that is a point one can debate on.

 

When you live here so long then you also can apply for the permeant residence and are the same as thai as well can own land too and more things like that.

 

Instead of complaining and forget that back home you are also the same person and then it is that you expect the same of foreigners to adapt and obey the law.

 

Accpet focus on the things that really matter, If you not like the system we still live in a free country and you are free to move on.

 

 

[amexpat]

28 minutes ago, Autonuaq said:

Accpet focus on the things that really matter, If you not like the system we still live in a free country and you are free to move on.

"Love it or leave it" version 7.  BTW, what is your native language? 

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, Autonuaq said:

The instruction and obligations are clear and are since 1979 put in place.

The instructions and obligations are not clear. They are put in place since 1979, but Immigration only started enforcing them partially since maybe two years.

[fhickson]

On 8/9/2019 at 5:26 PM, pgrahmm said:

Another poster reported that his wife/gf was asked if they were with a foreigner....When answered in the affirmative they required the farang to report to the registration desk with his passport; which he was forced to do, or not be able to stay....

We're (innocently) facing a wave of Thai backlash/resistance against us.....

unless they are doing it because they like you...

[stament]

On 8/9/2019 at 4:28 PM, Gweiloman said:

Whenever I stay in a resort in Thailand, my Thai partner does the check in registration process. She pays cash for the room and to date, I have never had to show any form of identification. Thus I will not be doing any TM30’s for domestic travel any time soon.


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Exactly what I do although presumably if you fly they have you as leaving unless you return the same day....

[meand]

On 8/9/2019 at 2:28 PM, OJAS said:

We seem to be rapidly getting to the stage where even stepping a single pace outside the property where we live will, in the case of us foreigners, necessitate an immediate trip to our local immigration office clutching an updated TM30.

but even if they did require that, you would just ignore the requirement.

 

see how easy that would be?

[boonrawdcnx]

I think the two women who process the TM30s in Chiang Mai aren't even IOs (not sure). They just do what they are told to.
I called 1178, which connects you to the Chiang Mai immigration office if you happen to be in Chiang Mai. The person who answered the phone forwarded the question to another person, i assume an IO.
If you want to confirm it just call them yourself on Tuesday (Monday is a holiday) and let us know if you got the same answer.

I don’t need to call - I was just there and got a new TM30 after changing my address - and I write it again here - I WAS SPECIFICALLY TOLD TO UPDATE MY TM30 WHEN RETURNING FROM ABROAD ONLY - and that’s all I need to know! Whatever anybody told you on the phone is irrelevant to me.

But maybe we should all call them and BOTHER THEM UNTIL THEY ARE SO UPSET and decide that we should also update the TM30 when returning from another province!!

This story reminds me of that idiot who reported the lady who issued the tax clearance certificates years ago drawing attention to her causing major problems for every foreigner in Chiang Mai leaving Thailand - because he was a smartass thinking he had to upset the system.


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[Greenside]

 

That doesn't excuse the re-introduction of its enforcement.  It was quietly ignored by the authorities, not the least because it is burdensome, ineffectual and largely pointless.  I doubt that any of us were here when the law was originally implemented and it goes without saying that most westerners feel it's hugely intrusive with uncomfortable echoes of a police state.

 

I wonder how many long term expats would have hesitated over making Thailand their home had the current immigration policy been in force when they were planning their move.

[rumak]

On 8/9/2019 at 4:28 PM, Gweiloman said:

Whenever I stay in a resort in Thailand, my Thai partner does the check in registration process. She pays cash for the room and to date, I have never had to show any form of identification. Thus I will not be doing any TM30’s for domestic travel any time soon.


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Yes, smart man.   Most of the time there are "solutions" if one doesn't over-react to changes.  For single guys/ladies think of some creative solutions.   Nothing against the law of course  ????

[rumak]

21 minutes ago, boonrawdcnx said:

I don’t need to call - I was just there and got a new TM30 after changing my address - and I write it again here - I WAS SPECIFICALLY TOLD TO UPDATE MY TM30 WHEN RETURNING FROM ABROAD ONLY - and that’s all I need to know! Whatever anybody told you on the phone is irrelevant to me.

But maybe we should all call them and BOTHER THEM UNTIL THEY ARE SO UPSET and decide that we should also update the TM30 when returning from another province!!

GOLD STAR COMMENT .  If only all the people on these forums would listen.    Ask in person WHEN the situation arises .  Then and only then.  Be polite.  Try to seek a higher ranking officer when asking,

Be polite.   Do not go on a rant about what a pain it all is.   Be polite.    Stop being the "this is ridiculous, in my country blah blah blah farang".   Yes, the Thais that deal with Farangs often have to deal with that type of behaviour.  The opinions they form of the Farang "visitors"  is much the same as those of Farangs when encountering unpleasant Thais or any person or group.    oh, and be polite  ????

[Bill97]

 
....it goes without saying that most westerners feel it's hugely intrusive with uncomfortable echoes of a police state.
 

Not the Westerners I know. Most consider it a minor inconvenience.

The Government here has had the ability to find you easily for years.

Police state? Cameras everywhere in London and throughout the western world. That kind of thing did not get rolling in backwaters like Thailand.
Have a look at Bush and Blair.

Anyway the police and military running things here is nothing new.


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[sfokevin]

Isn’t there a simple and easy App that Immigration has for us to update our TM30????

[Vacuum]

2 hours ago, boonrawdcnx said:

I WAS SPECIFICALLY TOLD TO UPDATE MY TM30 WHEN RETURNING FROM ABROAD ONLY - and that’s all I need to know!

I got the same information.

[thasoss]

On 8/10/2019 at 2:12 AM, daveAustin said:

It has always been a requirement that foreigners report their whereabouts if spending more than 24 hours away from usual address. They're just enforcing it by the looks.

still damn silly.So as a long term stayer,i go and visit a friend stay at their house...am i correct in thinking the house owner has to report that i have stayed overnight and that on my return to where i live i then have to go to my local immigration office and report back?Would the same apply if i stayed overnight in a hotel i too would have to report to my local office on return to where i live?

If the answer is yes to all my questions it feels a bit like a police state...or in thailand's case an army state.

[Vacuum]

20 minutes ago, thasoss said:

still damn silly.So as a long term stayer,i go and visit a friend stay at their house...am i correct in thinking the house owner has to report that i have stayed overnight and that on my return to where i live i then have to go to my local immigration office and report back?Would the same apply if i stayed overnight in a hotel i too would have to report to my local office on return to where i live?

If the answer is yes to all my questions it feels a bit like a police state...or in thailand's case an army state.

Leave your phone at home (don't close it). Visiting a friend = no problems with Immi (assuming he/she doesn't do a TM30). Staying in a hotel might forrce yu to do the TM30 on returning home, as most hotels do report their customers, thereby altering Immigrations database on where you are registered.

[Dljohnt]

On 8/9/2019 at 2:28 PM, OJAS said:

We seem to be rapidly getting to the stage where even stepping a single pace outside the property where we live will, in the case of us foreigners, necessitate an immediate trip to our local immigration office clutching an updated TM30.

We will soon get a chip in our neck to tell immigration where we are.... For now we all should leave our homes for one night and report all at the same time the next day. Maybe then they understand it's a crazy rule.

[sfokevin]

I don’t plan on letting this get my knickers in a bunch... I travel out of the province monthly and have no intention of reporting to the police my leisure travel in county... If they fine me so be it... It will just be one of the last nails in the coffin for one of the good guys... I am now doing preliminary research on the best way to repatriate the 800k I have at Bangkok Bank... Then there is breaking the news to the landlord... gardener... maid... and the staff at Dukes...  

[elgenon]

When you go to another province do you have to file a TM30 there? Then file another when you return?

[Bill97]

I got the same information.

Second post indicating op’s information does not apply to everyone or is incorrect.


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[Rimmer]

An off topic post asking Hua Hin has been removed

[stillhereandlovinit]

20 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Isn’t there a simple and easy App that Immigration has for us to update our TM30????

Yes. Its called section 38. once registered by the owner etc, you can fill it in yourself by using the username and password given by immigration. Very easy to use.

[cmsally]

The whole system reminds me of years ago (when most tribal people, did not have Thai ID cards) and there were different levels of permissions. Some hilltribe people seemed to be unable to even leave the amphur before getting something signed. Some were OK in their home province. This whole TM30 thing really reminds me of those days. Those without the Thai national ID found it pretty much impossible to travel outside their home province or maybe it was outside Northern Thailand.

[Rimmer]

A post discussing moderation has been removed. Also a post about Chiang Rai

 

If you have questions about Hua Hn or or wish to post about about Chiang Rai then post in the Hua Hin or Chiang Rai forum and not in the Chiang Mai forum topic. Thank you. 

[terminatorchiangmai]

Maybe its time all expats go to Immigration on a monday to report they were in another province for 24 hour.

If asked for accommodation just say you not sleep or slept in the car.

[Bill97]

Maybe its time all expats go to Immigration on a monday to report they were in another province for 24 hour.
If asked for accommodation just say you not sleep or slept in the car.

Maybe it is time for you to think of something helpful.


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[EricTh]

I just went to CM immigration last week to ask about the same question. I asked if I go to Bangkok to live in a hotel for a few days, would I need to update my TM30 when I go back to CM?

 

The TM30 officer said 'no need'.

 

So who is having the last say about this? It seems the officers themselves are confused.