does a digital nomad in thailand need a work permit?

[Fred123]

Simple question, not easy to answer it seems...
Does a digital nomad (no thai company, no thai customers) need a work permit. NB work permit asks for thai company details.

 

if the answer is yes, can they get a work permit?

 

I tried asking thaiembassy.com and got this answer, which I thought was confusing. What is abroad - from who's perspective...?

It seems to contradict itself - technically don't need a permit, but cannot work in Thailand...??

"

Technically you do not need a Thai work permit as long as you are not dealing with Thai customers. You can still work abroad BUT not in Thailand. You do it on your computer in your home or hotel.

As for the visa, you need to get a proper visa to stay here based on your purpose. That could be tourism. 

Please know that there is no long term tourist visa. The maximum is 6 months. There is no long term visa for the reason that you just want to stay here. There is no long term visa for digital nomad. 

"

[elviajero]

3 minutes ago, Fred123 said:

Does a digital nomad (no thai company, no thai customers) need a work permit. NB work permit asks for thai company details.

Yes, if you want to work legally you need permission.

 

3 minutes ago, Fred123 said:

if the answer is yes, can they get a work permit?

No. You can only get a WP if employed by a business legally operating in Thailand.

 

There are many “Digital Nomads” working in Thailand who keep a low profile and do not declare what they are doing to the authorities.

 

The authorities are quite happy for tourists to work whilst on a short term holiday and will leave DN’s alone because of that. But if you stay months/years it’s possible (unlikely), if caught, that you’d be prosecuted. Prosecution would probably only be a fine, but could include (unlikely) deportation.

[BritTim]

According to the letter of the law, you need a work permit as a digital nomad. However, it is impossible for you to get one.

 

The Thai authorities seem to recognise the situation. They tolerate digital nomads at this time, and that is unlikely to change. However, getting visas for long term stay could be an issue.

 

If you find this technically illegal, but tolerated status with potential visa problems unsatisfactory, you can look at these two (not particularly attractive) options:

• IGLU : https://iglu.net/expat/
• Thailand Elite : https://www.thailandelite.com/?locate=en  This does not make you more legal, but solves your visa problems if you are pretty sure you want to stay several years.

[SteveK]

Yes.

 

Not sure what was so hard about that.

 

Of course you can work illegally but don't tell anyone about it and don't deal with Thai customers, not sure how they can detect you setting up an Israeli website from your laptop in your bedroom. Common sense prevails as usual. Of course you could say that setting up Hebrew websites is your hobby and you do it for fun and the money you got was money owed from a drinking game years ago. My advice would be not to lie to the authorities but never tell anyone if you are earning money as a digital nomad and certainly never do it in public.

[CNXexpat]

What is the digital nomad doing? Working (for money). So what he needs? A work permit. But usually they don´t have. 

[SteveK]

2 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

What is the digital nomad doing? Working (for money). So what he needs? A work permit. But usually they don´t have. 

They never have. Because they cannot get. In Thailand, at least.

[CNXexpat]

1 minute ago, SteveK said:

They never have. Because they cannot get. In Thailand, at least.

Sometimes they have, if they work in a company. But, as I wrote, usually they don´t have. 

[SteveK]

Just now, CNXexpat said:

Sometimes they have, if they work in a company. But, as I wrote, usually they don´t have. 

If they work for a fully legal company inside Thailand, then I would say that they do not fall under the definition of a digital nomad, rather they are simply an employee sent overseas. Very different.

[emptypockets]

32 minutes ago, SteveK said:

They never have. Because they cannot get. In Thailand, at least.

And very rarely are they nomads. Most want to stay for an extended period.

By definition a nomad moves around, follows seasons or whatever, an almost romantic feel about it. Building a Yurt in Mongolia, spending time with the tribes in new Guinea blah, blah, blah.

I reckon cut the nomad crap and call them digital workers who want to earn western wages in low cost country and shag their women. And there is no visa or work permit for that at the moment.

Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Just stop the arty farty nonsense.

[tabarin]

Actually, most DNs do travel around and over the world, there are quite some who just come for 1-2 months only and join coworking spaces.

Those who live here for the longer term, hate to be called a DN and do not identify themselves as one either.
They are simply freelancers / overseas business owners who can work Online, for customers abroad. 

I can recall that even some hi-so owner of a co-working space in BKK tried to lobby for visa solutions years ago, so far with no progress or results.
Is really a shame actually as many are now in Indonesia and Vietnam instead. It would be of huge value to Thailand, when wanting to get to a 4.0 economy.

[CNXexpat]

11 hours ago, SteveK said:

If they work for a fully legal company inside Thailand, then I would say that they do not fall under the definition of a digital nomad, rather they are simply an employee sent overseas. Very different.

Well, I am living in Chiang Mai, where are many of digital nomads. Some of them are working for only a couple of months for a company and change after that to a new location. These people I would call digital nomads. But you are right, the people they are working a long time for a company are not (digital) nomads.

[Tayaout]

If you want to do it by the book one of the only options is https://iglu.net/

[orang37]

Pursuant to Immigration Code/Work Permit/Section 34a/Other/Digital Nomad:

Quote

 

Foreigner to show proof of:

 

1. Ten fingers.

 

2. Working Computer

 

3.  Possession of certified Yurt at least 4 meters in diameter.

 

4, Residence document showing stay of less than thirty days.

 

 

~o:37;

[scorecard]

Beware of you who ask. Is Thaiembassy.com an official government office or a private law firm?

 

Further in reality work permits aren't handled at all by embassies, which in fact represent the foreign affairs department of any government. 

[mommysboy]

No, not at this time.

[elviajero]

54 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Beware of you who ask. Is Thaiembassy.com an official government office or a private law firm?

 

Further in reality work permits aren't handled at all by embassies, which in fact represent the foreign affairs department of any government. 

No it's not and official website. It's run by a third party selling visa services.

 

From the website; "ThaiEmbassy.com. This is NOT the official website of the Thai Embassy."

[jackdd]

 

[scorecard]

13 hours ago, SteveK said:

If they work for a fully legal company inside Thailand, then I would say that they do not fall under the definition of a digital nomad, rather they are simply an employee sent overseas. Very different.

Do you mean a company registered in Thailand?  Or do you mean a company registered in another country and not registered in Thailand but the person is working in Thailand?

[elviajero]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

 

They may not have prosecuted anyone, but the authorities shut it down. Try renting an office in plain sight and working in that office at your online work and see how long before you're are shut down and or prosecuted.

 

The law is crystal clear that you cannot work at an occupation without permission. Who knows what the real motivation was for them not to prosecute the Chinese, but without question they could have.

 

One problem I know the authorities have is that prosecuting one tourist means prosecuting all tourists that work while on holiday.

 

The authorities have clearly taken a pragmatic stance on this. Knowing Thailand they will ignore dealing with it until it becomes a big issue and then they'll start the usual 'shut the stable door after the horse has bolted' clampdown.

 

IMO they aren't bothered by online work as long as it's short term. Anyone staying months/years funding their from this type of work is on very dodgy ground.

 

[NightSky]

Think about taxes. If you are receiving funds from outside Thailand and not declaring the money for taxes anywhere in the world then this might be a problem too.

 

Pay your taxes where due and keep head down.

 

If your work requires you to do any obvious physical work in Thailand look to get a work permit either via iglu or own company.

 

as someone else pointed out an elite visa might be an option 

 

 

[Misty]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

 

No doubt this happened, but I'm not sure that the police not doing anything makes it lawful.  Consider "bargirls were accepting cash for sex and the police didn't do anything."  Could one conclude that prostitution is legal?

[JohnnyBKK]

I know a digital nomad who got a work permit because he was paranoid, for that he needed to create a thai company and he hired some thai workers on paper, those workers had nothing to do but he still needed to pay taxes for them.

 

Every year it was a huge hassle to file yearly reports, pay VAT, taxes, etc. He closed the company and left the country.

 

 

Now in Chiang Mai there is a BOI company that make unlimited work permits for digital nomads, it's the only easy legal way to do it, you pay some taxes on your earnings too of course.

 

In practice, 98% of digital nomads are just tourists (elite visa) or married to a local. They open offshore companies and never pay any taxes anywhere. This is not legal but there is absolutely no way of knowing what you are doing if you never engage with any thai customer. Most people who get in trouble is because they told someone what they were doing and someone reported them to the local police.

 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, JohnnyBKK said:

Most people who get in trouble is because they told someone what they were doing and someone reported them to the local police.

I think it is prudent to keep a low profile. However, talking about it or not, I cannot recall a single case of a digital nomad with no Thai customers or employees ever being prosecuted. Can you point to such a case?

[kmw]

3 hours ago, JohnnyBKK said:

I know a digital nomad who got a work permit because he was paranoid, for that he needed to create a thai company and he hired some thai workers on paper, those workers had nothing to do but he still needed to pay taxes for them.

 

Every year it was a huge hassle to file yearly reports, pay VAT, taxes, etc. He closed the company and left the country.

 

 

Now in Chiang Mai there is a BOI company that make unlimited work permits for digital nomads, it's the only easy legal way to do it, you pay some taxes on your earnings too of course.

 

In practice, 98% of digital nomads are just tourists (elite visa) or married to a local. They open offshore companies and never pay any taxes anywhere. This is not legal but there is absolutely no way of knowing what you are doing if you never engage with any thai customer. Most people who get in trouble is because they told someone what they were doing and someone reported them to the local police.

 

Yes your totally correct, BOI companies can issue unlimited work permits via the DOE, 

 

Same with that iglu company, and a few companies in Bangkok and Chiang mai, 

 

I think that most digital nomads will move on after a few months, so no real issues with visas, but long term on line workers tend to move under the ltd or boi systems, ltd is a bit of a hassle hence why all are going for the boi recently

 

[FritsSikkink]

17 hours ago, tabarin said:

Actually, most DNs do travel around and over the world, there are quite some who just come for 1-2 months only and join coworking spaces.

Those who live here for the longer term, hate to be called a DN and do not identify themselves as one either.
They are simply freelancers / overseas business owners who can work Online, for customers abroad. 

I can recall that even some hi-so owner of a co-working space in BKK tried to lobby for visa solutions years ago, so far with no progress or results.
Is really a shame actually as many are now in Indonesia and Vietnam instead. It would be of huge value to Thailand, when wanting to get to a 4.0 economy.

Thailand doesn't need these people to help them to get to a 4.0 digital economy. They have very qualified international businesses who work with them to get there.  

[balo]

No, you do not need a permit.

 

If you work as a digital nomad , it means you are a nomad. So you move from country to country. You have a contract with an international company outside of Thailand, you get your salary transfered to a bank account in your home country, not Thailand. You pay your taxes in your home country, not Thailand. 

 

Most digital nomads stay a few months in Thailand , then move on to the next destination. With the current immigration rules , there are not many options to stay long term in Thailand unless you are married to a Thai or over the age of 50. A tourist visa will only work for a few months, in the old days you could enter the border unlimited times, but not anymore. 

 

[onera1961]

On 8/9/2019 at 1:56 PM, SteveK said:

They never have. Because they cannot get. In Thailand, at least.

Technically the cannot get a digital nomad work permit in the US also. But it is tolerated just like in Thailand. But don't tell to IO that you live as a digital nomad in Thailand or the USA and work remotely. That is a no no. 

[RocketDog]

The best answer to this question is to not ask it.

[mommysboy]

On 8/10/2019 at 2:32 PM, mommysboy said:

No, not at this time.

To clarify, as some seem uncertain, a person so described in the question does not in actuality need a work permit at the present time in what is a grey area.

[ThomasThBKK]

On 8/12/2019 at 11:37 AM, RocketDog said:

The best answer to this question is to not ask it.

Yeah that's pretty much the gist of it, the world is stuck in old laws that no longer work, laws that are unclear and can be intrepreted in totally different ways.

 

A classic example my home country, battery powered lights on bikes aren't compliant with law because no one bothered to rewrite some 70 year old traffic law....