How Many Are “Stuck” Here With No Way Out

[soalbundy]

'Stuck' is a negative view, sounds like imprisoned. I have burnt my bridges knowing full well the consequences but without regrets. Returning would be nigh on impossible but I wouldn't want to anyway.

[4MyEgo]

11 hours ago, bowerboy said:

At the very least (and especially from UK as many are) you can expect your family to be apart for a very long time and to have to support 2 households at a time when you probably need that money the most.

I retired at 55 from Oz.

 

We had 2 kids in Oz.

 

I planned this move for a decade.

 

Your 45 and receiving what it costs us per month to live here (realistically) including private health cover.

 

Before moving here, sold the principal place of residence and reinvested that, so I have a way back, if we ever need it.

 

Agree that there are a lot of expats here who are unfortunately being screwed here at the moment with the strong thai baht, i.e. they have nothing but their pension to live on, no fall back position from a monetary prospective, sure they could lean on their kids to accommodate them if the $hit hit the fan, but they know that would put a burden on them, so it's stuck in Thailand from either poor planning or mishaps in life, divorce, ripped off by a Thai girl, etc, etc

 

My advice to you would be to go back to Oz for a good 10 years and save your a$$ off, purchase a property that will increase with the 7 year cycle, then when the time is right, look at returning to Thailand years down the track and continue working here, and change your residency status to non-resident status so you don't pay tax to Australia as residents of Australia pay tax on their worldwide income.

 

I say continue working here, because you will need that monthly figure to survive a comfortable life here, 40-50-60,000 baht with kids is not a comfortable life, 100,000 baht with private health cover just makes it, then you have to add holidays domestically and internationally on top of that.

 

Not stuck....thankfully, years of hard work, planning and an undemanding wife helps.

[bowerboy]

7 hours ago, mstevens said:

I moved back home in my mid 40s after 15 odd years in Thailand. I was lucky and things worked out ok, but that's not to say it was easy.

 

The cost of relocation and setting up a life again back home was steep, as was the cost of setting up a new household. I was lucky in that I had done ok financially and had some reserves. I cannot imagine what it would be like returning home without much in the way of savings.

 

There is a huge opportunity cost staying in Thailand a long time if it's through your prime earning years. If you're in a professional / well-paid position AND you don't lose sight of the need to save for the future, you should be ok. But if you don't plan for the future, you might find yourself stuck in Thailand. And given how many seem to fall out of love with Thailand and / or face visa issues, that's a very scary prospect.

 

Having been there, done that so to speak, I'd say make sure you always have a number in mind and if your finances get down to that point, then get on a plane and go home. That number should be an amount that allows you to set up a place to live back home and live for a few months without employment + income.

 

 

 

Yeah that was a key learning point for me when going back to Australia....you need a fair bit of cash to get set up even if you do have a job already.

 

Also you have no rental history which makes it harder to rent a place if others are also trying for the same place.

 

One problem also for us is that in Asia most houses come fully furnished and so we literally have no furniture at all (just the kids beds and other small stuff). So you have to factor in buying a complete house full of furniture. Then obviously with family you need a car.

 

In my view (moving back to Australia) I would need $75k to allow for car, furniture and probably 6 months rent in advance to ensure you get the place you want. $125k if you don’t have a job to go back to.

 

Obviously you could do it on less than the above but that would be comfortable.

 

One thing I would suggest to people coming to Thailand is to keep your home country credit cards. Luckily I did that and have.a credit history in Australia ever since I was away (and it is a good rating).

[mstevens]

5 minutes ago, bowerboy said:

In my view (moving back to Australia) I would need $75k to allow for car, furniture and probably 6 months rent in advance to ensure you get the place you want. $125k if you don’t have a job to go back to.

 

Yep, I agree with these numbers. I always said to myself if I was out of work, spending more than was coming in and got down to my last $100K, it was time to go home. That would be the parachute point.

 

[MartinKal]

It's been a boon being stuck in Thailand as my savings and income are in a strong currency.

[spidermike007]

Being stuck here is much easier than being stuck in the US. I had a friend who was forced to move back to the US, due to being in a bad financial position, and going broke. He worked hard as an English teacher, working here for some time, and then he lived in China and taught at a University there for a while. But, he did not like living there at all. Moved back here, and just could not make much of a living teaching english. Ran out of money, passport expired, could not get a visa for a teaching gig he got offered in Vietnam, and agreed to move back to the US, with financial help from his family. Once he returned, he realized his entire skill set from the past meant nothing, and getting a job at close to 60 was very hard. He ended up working at K-Mart. At less than $10 an hour. Living in his brothers house. Last time we spoke, he said he was very depressed, and could not envision a way for his to ever return to Thailand, which he really loved. Life in the US, unless you are wealthy, is a difficult and desperate affair. People tend to be sour, bitter and disenfranchised, and the women have no idea how to manifest any of the dignity within femininity. Most America women are completely lost, when it comes to romance, and men. He had a great life here, prior to going broke. Spoke good Thai, and was constantly meeting and going out with lovely, young women. In the US, as a man of nearly 60, a man is as invisible as Casper the ghost, to women under 60! Unless you are wealthy, young, or very good looking, the prospects of dating an attractive woman who is not within your own age range, are very low. That itself is quite depressing for most single men. I have friends in the US who have not gotten busy for two years! What kind of life is that? 

 

He was a smart, charming, articulate, funny, lovely man. I guess he felt such a sense of desperation, he ended up taking his own life, a few years ago. Such a sad story. Miss him to this day. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by spidermike007

[ajarnmarc]

8 hours ago, wisperone said:

Always have a Plan B and plan for the future.  We don't just wake up some day and are all of a sudden old. We have a lot of years to prepare for the future possibilities in life. Burning bridges, shooting your entire wad in a foreign country, and never think you may be better off at home in ones elder years is just short sighted.

I think everyone tries to have a backup plan, and work on it. Then when you have a family here, and something happens to one of your loved ones, you step up to cover the cost for an accident, or worse something happens to yourself, and you find out the hospital can charge unlimited amounts of money, that your insurance knows is outlandish, and won't cover it. How does the backup plan kick in then? 

It only take one trip to the play gym for kids at the shopping mall, that isn't all that safe for kids playing in, as it appears to be, to bring us into the 250,000 bht hospital bill when our child is injured from what was to be an hour of fun & play. 

Family members look to you to cover things, make things right again, what do you say? 

You have to maintain your backup plan? 

It all sounds so easy, but in reality it is anything but easy, unless you stay by yourself, 

then I guess it could be less pressure to stick closely to a backup plan, 

but what kind of life is that, to be alone and selfish to only think about or care about yourself.

The systems are setup in our home countries in such a way, that we need to maintain the foundation, of credit, references, job history, etc. If we jump out of the grid, it's appears to me from here to be very hard to get back into the system. 

I find this subject very interesting and was thankful that someone took the time to share their experiences, especially when they are secure with employment from their home country. 

It is disappointing to see posts that try to knock down a concerning subject such as this, 

that just might help many of us, with some insight from other peoples experiences, all so the negative posts can have their time on this subject. I not sure why they bothered really?

They didn't have anything to offer, just want to talk negatively about the OP or others trying to gain some knowledge on what might be some sort of option or at least comfort in that they are not alone in their thoughts. It would of been a great post and could of been constructive to share with others their experiences to learn from, but instead we are distracted by all the posts stating we should plan, we should of thought of this or that, 

not what could be done after the fact, which is what this post was designed to help us do, yes?

So many times I have read here, that if we not like it here, why we not go back home, and then when someone takes the time to ask the difficult question of how hard it would be to relocate back to our home country we don't see support, or ideas on how one might do so, instead we see post stating why we ended up in a situation we didn't plan for?

I sincerely thank you Bowerboy for trying to open up this discussion, unfortunately the topic  was sabotaged with mostly negative responses that only distracted what the post was set out to try to do... get some real life experiences or at least some insight on how people might actually achieve a relocation back to their home country, without having to leave family members behind or stuck tagging along, only to bring us down while we tried to get re-established to support everyone in our family.

I can't imagine a day without being able to see my children, much less months at a time, and when it take over 20+ hrs to fly here from my country, it not seem feasible to think I could save money to travel back & forth, while still working to save money to bring everyone  i love and cherish in my family to stay with me. I have also found the daunting issue of where would be safe for them to stay in my country, when there are so many storms and weather related issues occurring almost daily if not weekly. Of course we also have out of control violence all around the country, which I would not want to subject my family too, 

when they are not conditioned to such evil hostility for one another as it appears to be the case where I am from. 

I have been here for over 20 years, and yes I agree things are not like they once were, when people were much more friendly, excepting towards one another, just look at this post, it was harmless and could / should of been left for people that were concerned to participate in, but that didn't end up being the case, and I'm sure it has discouraged some who might of been able to contribute something positive for other to read, learn from.

Instead people had to come talk themselves up while talking other down, 

so the subject didn't really get any traction at all. 

Sad really...

 

 

[Aussieroaming]

I'm sure that transitioning back to any ones home country after being absent for years would be difficult, financially draining and hard from a social network perspective. The positive at the moment if you come from the UK or Australia and want to return is the currency disparity at the moment and the fact that real estate prices in both country's is either flat or or in Australia's case in decline. 

 

Much harder for people who have to rent, find work, set children up in school, buy vehicles and furniture.

 

 

[legend49]

stuck I see as persons who bought realty. takes so  long to sell makes a challenge.

[cmarshall]

I always thought the young Western guys who moved to Thailand were burning their bridges, unless it was a very short sabatical.  After you're here a while even assuming that you have been able to find work in your field, your skills are almost certainly out-of-date by comparison with your home country and your old network of cronies who might help you find work there has withered.  Your savings from working in Thailand are likely to be paltry making it hard to get established back in the homeland.  You'll need time to look for a job.  Renting an apartment can be difficult in some areas without work income.  Your stint in Thailand is not going to make you look very appealing to prospective employers.  

 

So, it always looked like a one-way ticket to me.  And you don't have the right to live in Thailand.  So, very dicey.

 

It's different for retirees who will have a portable source of income.  

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

I always thought the young Western guys who moved to Thailand were burning their bridges, unless it was a very short sabatical.  After you're here a while even assuming that you have been able to find work in your field, your skills are almost certainly out-of-date by comparison with your home country and your old network of cronies who might help you find work there has withered.  Your savings from working in Thailand are likely to be paltry making it hard to get established back in the homeland.  You'll need time to look for a job.  Renting an apartment can be difficult in some areas without work income.  Your stint in Thailand is not going to make you look very appealing to prospective employers.  

I'd buy a run down small holding in rural France for around 20,000 Euros and try self sufficiency.

I'm never working for someone else again. 

[cmarshall]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'd buy a run down small holding in rural France for around 20,000 Euros and try self sufficiency.

I'm never working for someone else again. 

Sure, poverty is always an option.  Good luck.

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'd buy a run down small holding in rural France for around 20,000 Euros and try self sufficiency.

I'm never working for someone else again. 

You can probably get something even cheaper in Serbia and last I heard you can get residency based on that as long as they see you're actually living in it. 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

You can probably get something even cheaper in Serbia and last I heard you can get residency based on that as long as they see you're actually living in it. 

Yeah, but I can't speak Serbian.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Yeah, but I can't speak Serbian.

Good point. I have heard English is fairly widely spoken among the younger people there though. 

[White Christmas13]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You can probably get something even cheaper in Serbia and last I heard you can get residency based on that as long as they see you're actually living in it. 

Same in Croatia

[DefaultName]

I wouldn't say "no way out", but I can definitely see Pattaya ceasing to be a viable option.  I "indulge" in the main attractions of Pattaya less and less as my time here lengthens, been there, done that......????

 

• Back to the UK - no, not in any circumstances.  I feel more of a foreigner there than here, I expect to die here, though hopefully not just yet! 
• Other Asian countries - I have a Thai wife who wouldn't go for that. 
• Rural Thailand yes, probably in a few years.  Right now I'm thinking 30-60 minutes out of Pattaya, far enough for cheaper living, close enough for easy evening visits when I feel the need for liveliness.

[Kurtf]

Although there are many reasons why one could get stuck in Thailand I think mine might be typical. My father in law got I’ll so since my Thai wife owned some land in Thailand and even though she is an American citizen as am I, we decided to move to Thailand and take care of the old man. We came and built a house in the north away from Bangkok where her dad lived and then moved him up north to live with us. We hired a nurse to help take care of him and 9 months later he died. And for 7 years we have been trying to sell the house and land where all my entire wealth is tied up. Without selling this house there is no way we can afford to return to the USA. Moral of the story.....RENT. Never buy unless you want to buy my house 40 km north of Chiang Mai. 

[Thaidream]

12 hours ago, emptypockets said:

There's a lot to be said to be working for someone else as their is for working on your own business. Steady money (job) may seem boring compared to fast money.

At 63 I am bringing in 300,000 baht a month...not too shabby and a shitload of pension/ superannuation  funds on top of that. Sadly I am separated from my teeraak for three weeks and then back with her for two weeks at a time. The price we pay.

I enjoy my work not only for the financial reasons but also the personal and spiritual (inner spirit not god bothering) it gives me.

 

Maybe I'll retire in a couple of years but life is pretty good at the moment. oops forgot to mention the 20 acre house and property we own in Australia, along with the place in Thailand..

For you life is good and you are smart to have  assets in your home country and Thailand.   

 

The fact  is that you repreent less than 1% of the people in Thailand.  Those of us who are aging (over 70) cannot re-enter the workforce at the same salary we retired at and thus are stuck with what we have which due to currency fluctuations decreases significantly.

 

   Over the last 5 years- all myp ensions (4 of them) have provided me with  20,000 less Baht or a loss of 1 million Baht.  While I haven't  changed my lifestyle significantly costs have also gone up.   Even eating a mostly Thai diet- I have noticed rising prices in all sectors. 

 

Imported  items have risen significantly due to Thailand changing its way of figuring excise taxes.  Most irems originating from tjhe West- now cost 400-500% more in Thailand than  the country of origin.  Absolutely ridiculous and makes a mockery out of free trade and free trade agreements- yet our own governments do nothing  to counter this.  In fact, they appear to  bend to every Thai whim, such as the  Embassy letter situation and refuse to assist their own citizens.

 

Is a person stuck -varies according to age; family situation and finances.  Those of us who have invested heavily in Thailand in houses, land, cars and taking care of families generally would find it difficult and near impossible to relocate to our home countries unless we sold everything we have and that would take a great deal of time.  The truth is that I could walk away from everything and move back to the USA and live a good financial life- except in doing so my Thai family would be devastated and thrust into a life with  much fewer financial prospects and a hard time for all.  The selfishness and immorality of such an act by me would haunt me forever.

 

The problem I am having is that the life I have in Thailand has become less enjoyable due to various factors to include the Immigration xenophobia;  the direction of the current government; police harrassment; poor climate; lack of any planning; safety issues and double pricing to name a few. In the past- there were just a few inconveniences and issues that could be ignored, but at present the numbers of these issues has increased to a level that is less tolerable.

 

In addition- Thais just do not seem to have either the will or ability to make the necessary changes  which would benefit all residents and citizens.  The mai pen rai attitutude is pure laziness and commitment and driving Thailand further and further down the rabbit hole.  

 

 

[twocatsmac]

20 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

For you life is good and you are smart to have  assets in your home country and Thailand.   

 

The fact  is that you repreent less than 1% of the people in Thailand.  Those of us who are aging (over 70) cannot re-enter the workforce at the same salary we retired at and thus are stuck with what we have which due to currency fluctuations decreases significantly.

 

   Over the last 5 years- all myp ensions (4 of them) have provided me with  20,000 less Baht or a loss of 1 million Baht.  While I haven't  changed my lifestyle significantly costs have also gone up.   Even eating a mostly Thai diet- I have noticed rising prices in all sectors. 

 

Imported  items have risen significantly due to Thailand changing its way of figuring excise taxes.  Most irems originating from tjhe West- now cost 400-500% more in Thailand than  the country of origin.  Absolutely ridiculous and makes a mockery out of free trade and free trade agreements- yet our own governments do nothing  to counter this.  In fact, they appear to  bend to every Thai whim, such as the  Embassy letter situation and refuse to assist their own citizens.

 

Is a person stuck -varies according to age; family situation and finances.  Those of us who have invested heavily in Thailand in houses, land, cars and taking care of families generally would find it difficult and near impossible to relocate to our home countries unless we sold everything we have and that would take a great deal of time.  The truth is that I could walk away from everything and move back to the USA and live a good financial life- except in doing so my Thai family would be devastated and thrust into a life with  much fewer financial prospects and a hard time for all.  The selfishness and immorality of such an act by me would haunt me forever.

 

The problem I am having is that the life I have in Thailand has become less enjoyable due to various factors to include the Immigration xenophobia;  the direction of the current government; police harrassment; poor climate; lack of any planning; safety issues and double pricing to name a few. In the past- there were just a few inconveniences and issues that could be ignored, but at present the numbers of these issues has increased to a level that is less tolerable.

 

In addition- Thais just do not seem to have either the will or ability to make the necessary changes  which would benefit all residents and citizens.  The mai pen rai attitutude is pure laziness and commitment and driving Thailand further and further down the rabbit hole.  

 

 

But apart from all that, Thailand’s ok khrap ?

Edited August 11, 2019 by twocatsmac

[justin case]

you want a real stuck story ?

 

recently divorced ... want to move back with my child

 

ex-wife is stopping this even she does not visit the child, does not care, apparently f. around, but don't have 10 min per day/week/month to call or visit daughter

 

but does not allow me going back

 

that is stuck in the prison of thailand

 

ah yes, let's not forget, she does everything for me to not obtain a valid visa

 

supposed to help with that by court divorce agreement, but off course she is thai and cannot be bothered but is ready to sue ME for sole custody if I do not pay a bill on time...

 

embassy is of no use, thai courts are for thai people only, ... 

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, twocatsmac said:

But apart from all that, Thailand’s ok khrap ?

 really good question.  Generally speaking- It is OK and tolerable because I have learned to avoid most of the issues that  are irritating.   In addition, being able to speak polite Thai has helped me many times and my understanding of how Thais think has kept I and them mostly smiling.

 

I believe the Immigration issue regarding extensions and the lack of assistance in ironing out the Embassy letter problem has irritated me so much that all the other irritants have become magnified and thrown in the mix.  While- I can find the resources to stay in Thailand- I am constantly reminded that when Thai people married to foreigners obtain their Visa back to the Us; UK etc that this visa provides a form of permanent residency and eliminates all the nonsense that Thai Immigration places on us each year.  

 

I and others feel that since we have contributed significantly to the Thai economy after decades; do not break any laws and respect local customs we are still treated as temporary visitors and interlopers by the officials.  There is absolutely no reciprocity- our governments do nothning to assist us nor even seek reciprocity in immigration or trade yet are happy to enforce our home country tax laws when necessary.

 

 

[madmen]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You can probably get something even cheaper in Serbia and last I heard you can get residency based on that as long as they see you're actually living in it. 

And you could bump into the latest resident Yingluck in one of the hi so hotels on the Danube. Serbia is also very cheap , yes including renting a home or girl/boy and has  great food 

[madmen]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yeah, but I can't speak Serbian.

Serbian is to easy and within a month would learn enough to get by. Belgrade of course has basic English in tourist areas

[Skallywag]

On 8/10/2019 at 10:01 PM, bowerboy said:

How Many Are “Stuck” Here 

Wherever you go, you are stuck with a wife and 2 kids (5 and 7) who need to be raised for the next 12-15 years (the kids, hopefully not the wife 55)

Hope your wife has a profession and can work in Australia, as most parents living in a first world country need 2 incomes to raise a family.   

Good luck and if you are over 45, please consider a vasectomy, IMHO.

 

Being addressed as Grandpa at your kids high school graduation is a real bummer ????

 

Regards

Skally

[rhodie]

If you can, don't burn your bridges back home. Not easy for all, but at least it gives you a chance. Do feel sorry for all that are stuck especially those with kids and don't want to leave them. It's getting harder. 

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, rhodie said:

If you can, don't burn your bridges back home. Not easy for all, but at least it gives you a chance. Do feel sorry for all that are stuck especially those with kids and don't want to leave them. It's getting harder. 

 

 

I also feel sorry for retirees who were comfortable on small fixed pensions when the rate was GBP/THB 70; they coped when it dropped to 50.

 

Sub 40 is now a major problem and in the autumn of their lives they cannot go back to work - and cannot afford to live in their home countries.

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, madmen said:

And you could bump into the latest resident Yingluck in one of the hi so hotels on the Danube. Serbia is also very cheap , yes including renting a home or girl/boy and has  great food 

As long as you are ok with the cold for at least 6 months per year..

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, justin case said:

you want a real stuck story ?

 

recently divorced ... want to move back with my child

 

ex-wife is stopping this even she does not visit the child, does not care, apparently f. around, but don't have 10 min per day/week/month to call or visit daughter

 

but does not allow me going back

 

that is stuck in the prison of thailand

 

ah yes, let's not forget, she does everything for me to not obtain a valid visa

 

supposed to help with that by court divorce agreement, but off course she is thai and cannot be bothered but is ready to sue ME for sole custody if I do not pay a bill on time...

 

embassy is of no use, thai courts are for thai people only, ... 

Are you above 50? Nobody can prevent you to get a valid visa as long as you have enough cash...In fact even below 50 you can get Elite visa.

[Isaanbiker]

1 hour ago, justin case said:

you want a real stuck story ?

 

recently divorced ... want to move back with my child

 

ex-wife is stopping this even she does not visit the child, does not care, apparently f. around, but don't have 10 min per day/week/month to call or visit daughter

 

but does not allow me going back

 

that is stuck in the prison of thailand

 

ah yes, let's not forget, she does everything for me to not obtain a valid visa

 

supposed to help with that by court divorce agreement, but off course she is thai and cannot be bothered but is ready to sue ME for sole custody if I do not pay a bill on time...

 

embassy is of no use, thai courts are for thai people only, ... 

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. There's always a solution, sometimes it helps to talk to a good friend. Send me a message if you haven't got one.