EU's Juncker tells Britain: no-deal Brexit will hurt you the most

[grumpy 4680]

      Cannot believe anything Juncker the Junta says. he's a scheming crook, The EU should do an Audit for the first time when he's gone, 

[Chelseafan]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

Schengen has absolutely nothing to do with whether a lorry will be checked or not  as it has nothing to do with the movement of goods, but is solely concerned with the movement of people.

 

Indeed, lorries are checked entering Switzerland, which is part of  Schengen, simply because it is not part of the CU.

Stuff from Thailand will be checked because  Thailand is not part of the EU!

 

However lorries going Dover-Calais are not checked and just give a simple declaration of what they are carrying. 

That is simply not true, lorries going into Dover-Calais are checked randomly. I should know, I'm a buyer and have my lorries stopped, scanned and on rare occasions offloaded.

Edit : I will say that most go through without inspection, just paper-work checks.

Edit Edit : Yes, I shouldn't have mentioned Thailand but the same can be said for product shipping from Greece for example.

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, Chelseafan said:

Sorry again you're wrong about the UK. Goods can be inspected and off loaded coming into and out of the UK through an EU destination (Calais being the major one). I'm not saying every lorry is checked.

 

 

Correct, the UK program "Border Force" and "Border Force Calais" tells all on YouTube..

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, grumpy 4680 said:

      Cannot believe anything Juncker the Junta says. he's a scheming crook, The EU should do an Audit for the first time when he's gone, 

Thanks for the evidence. And the irrelevance.

[Loiner]

34 minutes ago, tebee said:

But you can't have zero checks otherwise there is no incentive for compliance - yes of course this load of cheap Chinese kids toys aren't painted in lead based paint or of course this load of mobile phones is only valued at £500.

You always need physical infrastructure at a border as you always need to do some checks 

Well the UK does not need any. Let's see if the EU builds your border for you. If you are afraid that non-CE compliant goods will flood from UK into EU via the NI border, then you should have a word with Varadkar about the Irish smugglers.

Or you could have your checks on everything coming from Ireland. Your EU imaginary problem is then solved. 

[Chelseafan]

23 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Do not mix up outer EU border (ports) and inter-EU transports.

In Rotterdam and Antwerp less as 1% of the incoming containers from outside the EU are checked ( and much less visually inspected). And of course ex Columbia a lot intensive as coming from Canada. Containers arriving on the "big ferries" like from Asia, entering e.g. Rotterdam, there customs cleared ( and NOT in the final destination ports as then also this transport costs are included in the CFR ( cost freight) over which import duty is levied) and transported further to… Hull, New Castle, Edinburgh, Aberdeen... Stockholm, Riga etc

Yes product is checked at the first EU port, however for the UK most product is shipped direct from Asia with a smaller %age going through Rotterdam and back to us on feeder vessels. You are correct in that certain countries present higher risk of inspection but also that the EU demands certain minimum %age checks from countries outside the EU for certain food groups, for example, at least 50% of containers arriving from India with shrimp have to be checked for the presence of antibiotics.

[puipuitom]

18 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

But it hasn't happened in a big way yet. Over time, through attrition, most likely it will.

ALL London forex traders I know now have a base in EU. ALL. 

[Loiner]

6 hours ago, gearbox said:

Do you think the people who drive Mercs and Beemers will switch to Ford after Brexit?

If there's a 20% tariff many probably will. That does not include the Fords assembled in the EU though, which will also increase in price.

Many of the people who drive Mercs and Beemers will be switched whether they like it or not. About 57% of all new vehicle registrations are made by companies, where the fleet buyers are extremely price sensitive.  

[puipuitom]

6 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Yes product is checked at the first EU port, however for the UK most product is shipped direct from Asia with a smaller %age going through Rotterdam and back to us on feeder vessels. You are correct in that certain countries present higher risk of inspection but also that the EU demands certain minimum %age checks from countries outside the EU for certain food groups, for example, at least 50% of containers arriving from India with shrimp have to be checked for the presence of antibiotics.

Again.. from OUTSIDE the EU is a complete other ball game as inter EU. Same ad from York to Leeds... nothing.

Not so long ago, all noodles from China were checked 100% for aluminium. From other origins.. zero. 

[Chelseafan]

10 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Again.. from OUTSIDE the EU is a complete other ball game as inter EU. Same ad from York to Leeds... nothing.

Not so long ago, all noodles from China were checked 100% for aluminium. From other origins.. zero. 

I didn't say otherwise. I was agreeing with your view on product coming into Rotterdam from outside the EU. Get with the program.

 

My ORIGINAL reply to you was based on your incorrect comment

 

" ONLY at ports leaving from the EU towards the UK there is a check for illegal passengers, but NOT for merchandise. Till of course 1 Nov 00:00:00 h "

 

Lorries can and are randomly pulled aside coming into Dover for checks, amongst other things, MERCHANDISE.

 

[Loiner]

6 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

 

 

 

From other origins.. zero. 

 

Which is why there will be no hard border at NI.

[Opl]

" The United Kingdom leaving the European Union without a deal would have consequences for international trade and labour markets in many countries, including outside Europe. Calculations by the Halle Institute for Economic Research (IWH) indicate: More than 600,000 jobs may be affected worldwide"

Germany would be hit the hardest, with more than 100,000 jobs affected, followed by China (just under 60,000) and France (around 50,000) as well as Poland and Italy (around 46,000 jobs each).

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Which is why there will be no hard border at NI.

Under the only deal on offer there isn’t one. 

[grumpy 4680]

       Britain was conned into a common market by Politicians who saw the benefits for them selves, hence the reason many still want to remain.

      Britain was doing ok before we went in, no reason why things can't improve after we're out, Being FREE of EU shackles is long over due, 

      Just needs the Fat Cat bosses to stop sulking, and prove their worth, they have had 3 years to prepare, so there should be no excuses for any failings/

[puipuitom]

22 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Well the UK does not need any. Let's see if the EU builds your border for you. If you are afraid that non-CE compliant goods will flood from UK into EU via the NI border, then you should have a word with Varadkar about the Irish smugglers.

Or you could have your checks on everything coming from Ireland. Your EU imaginary problem is then solved. 

It is really astonishing how little Brexiteers understand about the outer-EU borders coming for their European colonies. Many products cross this now inter-EU border several times in the several stages of manufacturing. This all will be hampered when an outer-EU border has to be crossed. Same for persons. Remind: no deal = no allowance to travel inside the EU with a non-EU passport. So as for.. Thais and a lot of other nations: a Schengen visa, international driver licence + insurances etc.. 

b) in a lot worser extend: Gibraltar - Spain, about which I hear nobody.

[Opl]

" Britain 'may be unable to stop illegal EU fishing in no-deal Brexit'. Experts warn the UK could be exposed to more terrorism, smuggling and conflicts over fish stocks in a no-deal scenario."

because Britain only has "12 vessels that need to monitor a space three times the size of the surface area of the UK", the document reveals.

[puipuitom]

27 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Lorries can and are randomly pulled aside coming into Dover for checks, amongst other things, MERCHANDISE.

Nonsense as is intra-Community supply. Only on a temporaty basis 

For illegal migrants, yes, but for the rest: fee movement of goods ( persons and capital) between the EU member states.

Union goods

Union goods originate in the EU or have been imported from outside the EU and released for free circulation. All import formalities will have been completed, and duties and other charges paid.

Union goods don’t need to move under customs control within the territory of the EU. But if Union goods go via a third country, proof of Union status is needed. This proof can be provided by a Community status (T2L) declaration made on a Single Administrative Document (SAD).

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/customs-procedures-when-transporting-goods-by-road

[hugocnx]

2 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

No, they don´t know all. But if many medias post the same (you can try Google if you find the same fact written in other newspapers) it could be true. It´s a kind of evidence. Better than write something ("the earth is flat") and if somebody post a link that the earth is round to say "all these links, do the media know all".

Hate to disagree with you. All main stream media are parrots and copy each other or even more worse is that the media get their info forced upon by one controlling medium. Can call them Reuters, AP, Deep State, Illuminati or NWO. Take your pick. So, all same doesn't mean it's true. Contrary also likely.

[Chelseafan]

1 minute ago, puipuitom said:

Nonsense as is intra-Community supply. Only on a temporaty basis 

For illegal migrants, yes, but for the rest: fee movement of goods ( persons and capital) between the EU member states.

Union goods

Union goods originate in the EU or have been imported from outside the EU and released for free circulation. All import formalities will have been completed, and duties and other charges paid.

Union goods don’t need to move under customs control within the territory of the EU. But if Union goods go via a third country, proof of Union status is needed. This proof can be provided by a Community status (T2L) declaration made on a Single Administrative Document (SAD).

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/customs-procedures-when-transporting-goods-by-road

Yes I am aware of this but lorries are still randomly checked for things such as contraband (tobacco and alcohol) and paperwork checks to ensure that what has been declared is on the lorry. The vehicles can also be searched for illegal immigrants.

 

 

[hugocnx]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

What are you trying to say, that Richard Neal never made this statement or the other quotes in the article.

“The American dimension to the Good Friday agreement is indispensable,” said Richard Neal,

If you read my post again you will find that I was not specifically commenting on the contents of the link.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

I always find it ironic when brexiters decry the Sm - it was a British invention, designed to give the UK a big advantage in those areas it excels in - finance and services. Most normal FTAs don't include provisions for services  they are strictly for goods, something that post Thatcher UK is not very good at.

 

We could live with being outside the CU, like Switzerland, but that doesn't solve the NI problem.  

 

So you want to go back from the FTA on steroids  that the SM is, to a simple goods based FTA, even though it would damage those parts of the economy the UK is good at, while helping the EU with those parts it is good at ?

You asked in "what ways do you consider it not to be an FTA?".

 

I didn't decry anything so no need to get hissy. 

[CNXexpat]

8 minutes ago, hugocnx said:

Hate to disagree with you. All main stream media are parrots and copy each other or even more worse is that the media get their info forced upon by one controlling medium. Can call them Reuters, AP, Deep State, Illuminati or NWO. Take your pick. So, all same doesn't mean it's true. Contrary also likely.

But not if they quote someone and all write the same quotation. And if all write 1 + 1 = 2 it´s also true

 

If you believe nobody, how do you get your information about the world.

[tomacht8]

57 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

I didn't say otherwise. I was agreeing with your view on product coming into Rotterdam from outside the EU. Get with the program.

 

My ORIGINAL reply to you was based on your incorrect comment

 

" ONLY at ports leaving from the EU towards the UK there is a check for illegal passengers, but NOT for merchandise. Till of course 1 Nov 00:00:00 h "

 

Lorries can and are randomly pulled aside coming into Dover for checks, amongst other things, MERCHANDISE.

 

That is right.

There is a mobile customs police.

At each border crossing, inspections can also be carried out in the inter EU. 

 

[tebee]

1 hour ago, Chelseafan said:

Yes product is checked at the first EU port, however for the UK most product is shipped direct from Asia with a smaller %age going through Rotterdam and back to us on feeder vessels. You are correct in that certain countries present higher risk of inspection but also that the EU demands certain minimum %age checks from countries outside the EU for certain food groups, for example, at least 50% of containers arriving from India with shrimp have to be checked for the presence of antibiotics.

Oddly enough, final customs clearance from goods outside the EU isn't done until until it enters its final destination country ( rather than the country of entry) So things that have come from outside the EU via another EU country would indeed be customs checked on the UK border.

I didn't know that before today either !

[tebee]

41 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You asked in "what ways do you consider it not to be an FTA?".

 

I didn't decry anything so no need to get hissy. 

But it still is a free trade area - just one that's been extended to cover services.

[Chelseafan]

11 minutes ago, tebee said:

Oddly enough, final customs clearance from goods outside the EU isn't done until until it enters its final destination country ( rather than the country of entry) So things that have come from outside the EU via another EU country would indeed be customs checked on the UK border.

I didn't know that before today either !

I thought it was the other way around, I must admit most of my containers from the far east arrive direct to one of the UK ports, I have had on occasions product arrive from the US via Rotterdam and sent to a UK port via a feeder vessel but I always assumed the checks are done at the first port so if what you say is true then I've learnt something new today too. I'll check with my imports dept. tomorrow for clarification.

 

[tebee]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

Nonsense as is intra-Community supply. Only on a temporaty basis 

For illegal migrants, yes, but for the rest: fee movement of goods ( persons and capital) between the EU member states.

Union goods

Union goods originate in the EU or have been imported from outside the EU and released for free circulation. All import formalities will have been completed, and duties and other charges paid.

Union goods don’t need to move under customs control within the territory of the EU. But if Union goods go via a third country, proof of Union status is needed. This proof can be provided by a Community status (T2L) declaration made on a Single Administrative Document (SAD).

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/customs-procedures-when-transporting-goods-by-road

No he is actually right, they can still be pulled over and checked  either entering or leaving the country( or indeed at any point within the country) just to ensure that the load matches it's paperwork and nothing illegal is being carried and no excise duty is being avoided.

 

Ports are the usual places to do this simply because the customs offices are already there, but they can(and do ) carryout random checks elsewhere.

 

The port authorities themselve carry out random checks too, to ensure goods are in compliance with the ports on regulations. 

 

It's a tiny fraction of inter-EU traffic that is subject to these checks though, hence why Dover manages to take less than 2 mins to process each lorry currently.

[tebee]

20 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

I thought it was the other way around, I must admit most of my containers from the far east arrive direct to one of the UK ports, I have had on occasions product arrive from the US via Rotterdam and sent to a UK port via a feeder vessel but I always assumed the checks are done at the first port so if what you say is true then I've learnt something new today too. I'll check with my imports dept. tomorrow for clarification.

 

4.1.2.1 External Union transit procedure

T1 The external Union transit procedure (T1), applies mainly to the
movement of non-Union goods. It suspends import duties, other
charges and commercial policy measures until the goods reach their
destination in the Union.

 

From https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/transit_manual_en.pdf#page=41

 

Another of those 1,000,001 things you probably didn't need to know. 

[sawadee1947]

12 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

Ireland will be hit the worst

Why? They are not stupid to leave EU

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

Oddly enough, final customs clearance from goods outside the EU isn't done until until it enters its final destination country ( rather than the country of entry) So things that have come from outside the EU via another EU country would indeed be customs checked on the UK border.

I didn't know that before today either !

It is NOT my wallet, but.. import duty has to be paid over the CFR value = costs + transports till place of custom clearance.

So, when a container with .. pineapple from Thailand goes with the big ferries to St Nazaire, Felixtowe, Rotterdam, Hamburg,. and from there with feeders to,... Hull / Riga, when NOT custom cleared in the first port, also import duty over the seafreight R-dam/Hull or Zeebrugge - Riga is levied.

But.. maybe at  - amoung others - Gaston Schul Rotterdam B.V.  they donot know the rules well enough… as they do the customs declarations of hundreds of containers a day, also for the smaller British ports. 

Bye-the-way: it is one of the reasons, whey Netherlands is such a big contributor to the EU: 80% of the levied import duty - for whatever EU destination custom clearance is done- goes to "Brussels", the rest is for "costs" and is kept in the NL