Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, polpott said:

There's money to be made in washing Rupees.

If that was true wouldn't they all be open now? a bit of an urban myth that one

[kingofthemountain]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

If that was true wouldn't they all be open now? a bit of an urban myth that one

Imagine you have a ton of rupees in cash to ''wash''

you can not use a bank to bank or other usual transfer way

so if some people usualy travel back and forth from India to Thailand

with the cash in their luggages, it's now impossible with the travel restrictions and

the quarantine requirment, hence the ''laundry'' closures in Pattaya

 

The legits ones with a local customers base, like Ali baba, are still open

 

[champers]

1 hour ago, polpott said:

There's money to be made in washing Rupees.

Nobody coming here from Rupeeland.

[scubascuba3]

34 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Imagine you have a ton of rupees in cash to ''wash''

you can not use a bank to bank or other usual transfer way

so if some people usualy travel back and forth from India to Thailand

with the cash in their luggages, it's now impossible with the travel restrictions and

the quarantine requirment, hence the ''laundry'' closures in Pattaya

 

The legits ones with a local customers base, like Ali baba, are still open

 

You have a vivid imagination, or another theory, they were just rubbish and eventually ran out of money as expected like so many businesses

[polpott]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

You have a vivid imagination, or another theory, they were just rubbish and eventually ran out of money as expected like so many businesses

OK. Examine the strange case of the Baku Group, now owners of the Avenue and other ventures around Pattaya. Indian owned but silent partners.

 

Why Baku? Capital of Azerbaijan and known as the money laundering capital of the world with the main players being Indian. Indian business, by nature, means that large percentages of their cash needs to be laundered.

[scubascuba3]

16 minutes ago, polpott said:

OK. Examine the strange case of the Baku Group, now owners of the Avenue and other ventures around Pattaya. Indian owned but silent partners.

 

Why Baku? Capital of Azerbaijan and known as the money laundering capital of the world with the main players being Indian. Indian business, by nature, means that large percentages of their cash needs to be laundered.

I don't doubt it goes on, i know from a friend that a gogo does, or did before it closed, just not sure how widespread it really is

Edited March 28, 2021 by scubascuba3

[Leaver]

19 hours ago, swissie said:

I am basing my optimism on 2 things.
- Recent statements by the TAT, that vaccinated folks will be allowed entry by October 1st.
- The ongoing Vaccination-Programs in Europe/US should be completed by August/September.

 

Firstly, TAT does not speak on behalf of Thailand's Health Ministry.

 

Secondly,  you are focussing on only one side of the equation, the vaccination of western country populations. 

 

I agree with you that many western countries will have completed their vaccination program towards the end of this year.  The UK is rolling out the vaccine at a rapid rate.

 

What is Thailand doing?  How much of the vaccine have they purchased?  How much can they produce?  When will they start to vaccinate the general Thai population?  What will be Thailand's daily vaccination rate?  Without the answers to these questions, and more, we can not know, roughly, when we can expect Thailand to have vaccinated 65% of the Thai population, and the borders can open.

 

They can talk about sandboxes, shoes boxes, whatever boxes, but for those wanting to holiday in Thailand after being vaccinated, their focus should be on Thailand's vaccination program, and to date, there has been little information forthcoming. 

 

It's almost like Thailand is waiting for the rest of the world to be vaccinated, so then Thailand can open borders without spending on vaccines and vaccinating its people.  That simply not going to happen.  

 

I have said islands like Phuket and Samui could vaccinate to 65% and open up quite quickly, if the islands are quarantined. Basically, "sandbox" the whole island, and this would be safe, because the Thai population has been vaccinated to the 65% on the island/s. 

 

Another issue may be, for those vaccinated, if they wish to travel to Thailand, where the population hasn't been vaccinated, they may face quarantine when they arrive back home because their home country would see Thailand as a risk.  This will surely deter many tourists.

 

19 hours ago, swissie said:

Of course, the above projections become irrelevant, if the Virus mutates faster than we can vaccinate the populace. We may lose this race, especially as already a "Dual-Mutant" seems to have emerged in India, resistant to currently available vaccines. (Let's stay tuned).

 

Yes.  I have said before, Thailand better hurry up before the virus mutates into something the current vaccine can not protect against, otherwise, Thailand runs the risk of of being 12, 18 or 24 months behind the rest of the world as it waits for a completely new vaccine to be developed.  

 

An extreme case would be the rest of the world quarantines Thailand, should a nasty mutation be discovered in the Thai population.  

 

Once again, it's in the hands of the Thai's, but little action by way of a vaccination program has been reported in the media.  

 

19 hours ago, swissie said:

Concerning the "pent-up-demand": If everything goes according to vaccination-schedules, by Aug/Sept the hordes of potential travellers will be unleashed. At this specific "time-window", the travellers will have the choice to do some heavy-duty mongering somewhere in Europe or in Thailand. I prefer Thailand. AND I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE.

 

There will be no "hordes of potential travellers" coming to Thailand in Aug/Sept for the reasons I have given above, Phuket / Samui possibly aside.  

 

If Thailand wants tourists to return as soon as possible, they have to open up the cheque book and buy / manufacture around 90 million vaccines to vaccinate around 45 million Thai's with two vaccinations each. 

 

All medical services, possibly with assistance from the Thai Army, need to be deployed to get it done as quickly as possible.  There is no getting around this.

 

Where this is on topic, the longer Thailand does nothing, the leases on the establishments that remain operating come up for renewal.  That means spending more capital.  Some business owners may be willing to stay in the game, some will walk away.  

 

I have said in the past, what establishments that are still open in February 2021 will probably still be open post covid when tourism returns to normal.  At the time, I really thought Thailand would throw a lot of resources at vaccinating the population, especially considering tourism is around 17% of Thailand's GDP.  Yet, very little real action is coming out of Bangkok by way of announcing Thailand's pathway out of covid?   

Edited March 28, 2021 by Leaver

[polpott]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I don't doubt it goes on, i know from a friend that a gogo does, or did before it closed, just not sure how widespread it really is

Its widespread amongst Indian businesses (not all of them) elsewhere not so much.

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Customers I expect.... but I am not optimistic.

One was a venue I never thought much of, and never went into (just rarely to see why I had made that determination). The other, I quite liked, but it had closed even before Covid, so a surprise to see it reopen. It appears my preferences are not always the ones that do well... (I actually think the opposite, I am the kiss of death! Perhaps responding to the lack of Kinks.

 

I'm wondering if some agreement with the Thai landlord has seen the landlord say to the tenants he believes it's now profitable to open again, thus removing any covid rent relief, or decreasing it, which basically forces them to open to try to at least cover the rent.

 

I've heard some bars pay a low covid rent whilst closed, but as soon as they open, the rent goes back up.

 

Maybe it's the landlord's call for some establishments.      

[scubascuba3]

6 minutes ago, polpott said:

Its widespread amongst Indian businesses (not all of them) elsewhere not so much.

can't be very profitable otherwise they'd stay open

[polpott]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

can't be very profitable otherwise they'd stay open

As others have said, due to Covid and the ensuant travel difficulties its near impossible to move money around internationally now.

[redwood1]

15 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

can't be very profitable otherwise they'd stay open

 

Google Indian Restaurants Cambodia,Laos,Vietnam or pick any province in Thailand.........What will you find?.........Indian  Restaurants and lots of them......

 

Do the Cambodians or Vietnamese or Laos people eat Indian food? About as much as the Thais which means pretty much none......

And Indian tourist dont go to these countries much at all........So that only leaves a few expats to support all these restaurants........

 

I am telling you guys there is something very strange about the whole Indian restaurant thing...

 

We dont see Asian cities with crazy numbers of Korean or Japanese or Chinese or French or German or Russian or Italian restaurants , just the needed numbers to serve a population.....

 

But there are WAY WAY WAY more  Indian restaurants than are needed....

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Google Indian Restaurants Cambodia,Laos,Vietnam or pick any province in Thailand.........What will you find?.........Indian  Restaurants and lots of them......

 

Do the Cambodians or Vietnamese or Laos people eat Indian food? About as much as the Thais which means pretty much none......

And Indian tourist dont go to these countries much at all........So that only leaves a few expats to support all these restaurants........

 

I am telling you guys there is something very strange about the whole Indian restaurant thing...

 

We dont see Asian cities with crazy numbers of Korean or Japanese or Chinese or French or German or Russian or Italian restaurants , just the needed numbers to serve a population.....

 

But there are WAY WAY WAY more  Indian restaurants than are needed....

Using Pattaya as an example there is way way way more bars than are needed. Maybe the equivalent Indian fellas are living the dream opening sh*tty restaurants vs farang opening sh*tty bars

[kingofthemountain]

42 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Using Pattaya as an example there is way way way more bars than are needed. Maybe the equivalent Indian fellas are living the dream opening sh*tty restaurants vs farang opening sh*tty bars

There is nothing comparable

usualy an old westerner open a bar in Pattaya to keep her gf\wife busy

using his pension to keep the business afloat

in these indians restaurants the owner seems to be always a relatively young guy in his 30-40, so no pension involved

(I wonder what can be the amount of a pension in India) 

Edited March 28, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[petermik]

8 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

 

(I wonder what can be the amount of a pension in India) 

Three poppadom`s two chapati`s and one onion bhaji ????

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Using Pattaya as an example there is way way way more bars than are needed. Maybe the equivalent Indian fellas are living the dream opening sh*tty restaurants vs farang opening sh*tty bars

 

Arranged the right way, maybe one Indian restaurant can equal 10 work permits and long stay, so these people can do "other things."  

[chrisandsu]

5 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

Google Indian Restaurants Cambodia,Laos,Vietnam or pick any province in Thailand.........What will you find?.........Indian  Restaurants and lots of them......

 

Do the Cambodians or Vietnamese or Laos people eat Indian food? About as much as the Thais which means pretty much none......

And Indian tourist dont go to these countries much at all........So that only leaves a few expats to support all these restaurants........

 

I am telling you guys there is something very strange about the whole Indian restaurant thing...

 

We dont see Asian cities with crazy numbers of Korean or Japanese or Chinese or French or German or Russian or Italian restaurants , just the needed numbers to serve a population.....

 

But there are WAY WAY WAY more  Indian restaurants than are needed....

It’s probably an easy way to obtain a visa to live in Thailand . Then get to work on things that really make money like money lending ...

[TaaSaparot]

????

[Jingthing]

About Indian restaurants, while it is true that some Indian restaurant owners are engaged in other businesses (so what, are y'all against capitalism?), the main reason there used to be so many Indian restaurants in Pattaya is because there used to be so many Indian tourists in Pattaya and Indian tourists tend to need to eat a lot of Indian food especially if they're vegetarian. Notice that most of them have closed. I don't really buy the demonization of Indian restaurants that I've heard over the years, frankly it stinks of racism. 

[Leaver]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

About Indian restaurants, while it is true that some Indian restaurant owners are engaged in other businesses (so what, are y'all against capitalism?), the main reason there used to be so many Indian restaurants in Pattaya is because there used to be so many Indian tourists in Pattaya and Indian tourists tend to need to eat a lot of Indian food especially if they're vegetarian. Notice that most of them have closed. I don't really buy the demonization of Indian restaurants that I've heard over the years, frankly it stinks of racism. 

 

No racism from me, but I disagree with you. 

 

When there were plenty of Indian tourists here, I only ever saw only a few eating in the Indian restaurants here.  Most were never busy with Indian customers.  

 

Most likely the reason was the price of a meal here was a lot more expensive than the same meal in India.  This is something that was starting to creep into western establishments pre covid, dearer prices here then in the west for the same food & beverage.   Thailand no longer offering a cheap holiday, and this was reflected in low western tourist numbers, pre covid, which was destined to eventually cause bar and restaurant closures.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Leaver

[Jingthing]

Just now, Leaver said:

 

No racism from me, but I disagree with you. 

 

When there were plenty of Indian tourists here, I only ever saw only a few eating in the Indian restaurants here.  Most were never busy with Indian customers.  

 

Most likely the reason was the price of a meal here was a lot more expensive than the same meal in India.  This is something that was starting to creep into western establishments pre covid, dearer prices here then in the west for the same food & beverage.   

 

 

I disagree with you. The vast majority of Indian restaurants had very cheap thali offerings, special off menu deals for groups, sometimes upstairs big rooms for groups, and plenty busy enough with Indian tourists. Mainly in South Pattaya south of Pattaya Tai and in the Pattaya Klang area deep into the sois. I've really had it with these dark conspiracy theories about Indian restaurants. I've seen the same kind of garbage hurled at ethnic groups in the U.S. -- every place is an illegal front. Blah blah blah. 

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I disagree with you. The vast majority of Indian restaurants had very cheap thali offerings, special off menu deals for groups, sometimes upstairs big rooms for groups, and plenty busy enough with Indian tourists. Mainly in South Pattaya south of Pattaya Tai and in the Pattaya Klang area deep into the sois. I've really had it with these dark conspiracy theories about Indian restaurants. I've seen the same kind of garbage hurled at ethnic groups in the U.S. -- every place is an illegal front. Blah blah blah. 

 

That's simply not my observation, pre covid, and I don't mind a curry.  Admittedly, the Indian restaurants i go to are in Central Pattaya, before I go out for the night.  

 

If the restaurants you mention, in the locations you say, did alright, what were all the others in Central Pattaya doing sitting empty most of the time?

 

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

That's simply not my observation, pre covid, and I don't mind a curry.  Admittedly, the Indian restaurants i go to are in Central Pattaya, before I go out for the night.  

 

If the restaurants you mention, in the locations you say, did alright, what were all the others in Central Pattaya doing sitting empty most of the time?

 

 

I was talking about the majority of Indian restaurants which are in the areas I mentioned. Where you mentioned would often be higher end.  So perhaps they were going for higher profit per head versus volume, or you went at non peak hours for Indians, or they were losing money. Many restaurants of all kinds are losing money even in normal times. I'm not talking specifically about you -- I've seen these attacks on Indian restaurants owners for many years and they stink of knee jerk prejudice against "others" and they never present any hard evidence of nefarious goings on. I don't consider a businessman being involved in multiple endeavors to be nefarious. To me it means they are hard working and creative.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Jingthing

[polpott]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I don't really buy the demonization of Indian restaurants that I've heard over the years, frankly it stinks of racism. 

I think you'll find that's the asafoetida.

[redwood1]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I was talking about the majority of Indian restaurants which are in the areas I mentioned. Where you mentioned would often be higher end.  So perhaps they were going for higher profit per head versus volume, or you went at non peak hours for Indians, or they were losing money. Many restaurants of all kinds are losing money even in normal times. I'm not talking specifically about you -- I've seen these attacks on Indian restaurants owners for many years and they stink of knee jerk prejudice against "others" and they never present any hard evidence of nefarious goings on. I don't consider a businessman being involved in multiple endeavors to be nefarious. To me it means they are hard working and creative.

 

No one in this thread has said a single derogatory or prejudice thing against Indian people as a race of people.......

 

If there were loads and loads of French or Japanese restaurants in Pattaya that had no customers and never went out of business then we would be talking about the French or Japaneses restaurants instead of Indian restaurants...

 

You are also mistaken about the number of Indian restaurants that have gone out of business in Pattaya........

I would guess only about 30% have completely  (as in cleared out furniture) gone out of business.......

I would say 50% are in a state of hibernation, where they are not open but they are also not closed, They are still paying the rent but waiting for better times to open again.............

And I would guess about 20-25% are still open as in serving food.....

 

The first week the Indian tourist come back all these hibernating Indian restaurants will spring back to life...

 

 

I like Indian food and I like Indian people.....

 

What bothers me is things thats dont logicly make sense.....

Like how its financially possible to have so many Indian restaurants in Pattaya surviving on so little business?.....It's not possible, Its 100% impossible......Yet there they are year after year after year........

 

You know Pattaya restaurants better than anyone,I am a amazed that that the massive overabundance of Indian restaurants does not make you curious as to WHY? 

Edited March 29, 2021 by redwood1

[rott]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

About Indian restaurants, while it is true that some Indian restaurant owners are engaged in other businesses (so what, are y'all against capitalism?), the main reason there used to be so many Indian restaurants in Pattaya is because there used to be so many Indian tourists in Pattaya and Indian tourists tend to need to eat a lot of Indian food especially if they're vegetarian. Notice that most of them have closed. I don't really buy the demonization of Indian restaurants that I've heard over the years, frankly it stinks of racism. 

Those that opened in say the last five years, it was rare to see a customer of any race in any of them. 

This would be obvious to people who walked around Pattaya with their eyes open. 

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, rott said:

Those that opened in say the last five years, it was rare to see a customer of any race in any of them. 

This would be obvious to people who walked around Pattaya with their eyes open. 

Its not true.

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, polpott said:

I think you'll find that's the asafoetida.

Come again?

[polpott]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Come again?

Google it. Very common in Indian food.

[rott]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Its not true.

That is my experience and of the people I know. 

And I do not sit at home awaiting a food delivery service but I am out and about.