Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[Leaver]

Nick Dean has announced that Pandora on Soi 7 is finished.

 

The back story is, the Thai landlord didn't want to share the covid pain.  What a smart businessman he must be.   

 

He said the Thai landlord has plans to renovate his tin roof beer bars on Soi 7.  Who would want to rent off a Thai landlord like that? 

 

I'm sure the owner wished he walked away earlier.  

 

 

[kinyara]

 

 

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

Nick Dean has announced that Pandora on Soi 7 is finished.

 

The back story is, the Thai landlord didn't want to share the covid pain.  What a smart businessman he must be.   

 

He said the Thai landlord has plans to renovate his tin roof beer bars on Soi 7.  Who would want to rent off a Thai landlord like that? 

 

I'm sure the owner wished he walked away earlier.  

 

 

Classic, Dumb and Dumber telling us how stupid and lacking in business sense a prime site Thai landowner is. Thinly veiled rascism at the pain of seeing their old Pattaya move away from what suits their own narrow self-interest. Why is it these guys and yourself for that matter Leaver refer to the tenant as an owner ?  He owns nothing other than a bit of personalised signage and paid temporary occupation. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by kinyara
Error in attaching post replying to

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Only place where prime site landowners are considered the daft businessman and the foreigners signing the leases are the smart guys.  Seriously is this anything but envious racism.

 

Classic, Dumb and Dumber telling us how stupid and lacking in business sense a prime site Thai landowner is. Thinly veiled rascism at the pain of seeing their old Pattaya move away from what suits their own narrow self-interest. Why is it these guys and yourself for that matter Leaver refer to the tenant as an owner ?  He owns nothing other than a bit of personalised signage and paid temporary occupation. 

 

I could understand if the Thai landlord wanted to use covid to "wind up' current lease holders, because he has a big offer on the table from a developer.  I am simply commenting on Nick Dean's information that the Thai landlord wishes to retain the land, and is therefore renovating the bars to sign up more lease holders, post covid. 

 

I can not comment on the truth, or otherwise, from the Thai landlord.  I can only comment on Nick Dean's information, and for me, if the Thai landlord has no intention of selling, why force out a long term tenant by not offering rent relief during covid, particularly a major tenant, like Pandora.  

 

For your information, as foreigners, we can never truly own property here.  I have said that in many posts, on several threads.  I don't know why you are calling me out on that one.  I have openly stated I will never buy a property here.  It's simply a waste of money, when the purchase price invested elsewhere earns more than the cost of renting here.  

 

I am not quite sure where you got that bar owners, and myself, think they own the property.  They own the business, that's the name, the seats, the tables, the TV's, the fridges etc.  Who suggested otherwise?  

[kinyara]

14 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I could understand if the Thai landlord wanted to use covid to "wind up' current lease holders, because he has a big offer on the table from a developer.  I am simply commenting on Nick Dean's information that the Thai landlord wishes to retain the land, and is therefore renovating the bars to sign up more lease holders, post covid. 

 

I can not comment on the truth, or otherwise, from the Thai landlord.  I can only comment on Nick Dean's information, and for me, if the Thai landlord has no intention of selling, why force out a long term tenant by not offering rent relief during covid, particularly a major tenant, like Pandora.  

 

For your information, as foreigners, we can never truly own property here.  I have said that in many posts, on several threads.  I don't know why you are calling me out on that one.  I have openly stated I will never buy a property here.  It's simply a waste of money, when the purchase price invested elsewhere earns more than the cost of renting here.  

 

I am not quite sure where you got that bar owners, and myself, think they own the property.  They own the business, that's the name, the seats, the tables, the TV's, the fridges etc.  Who suggested otherwise?  

I'm pleased that your choice in the rent/buy decision has worked out for you unlike the many that can't cover the cost of their business rental obligations and have had to renege on their rental agreements.  

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, kinyara said:

I'm pleased that your choice in the rent/buy decision has worked out for you unlike the many that can't cover the cost of their business rental obligations and have had to renege on their rental agreements.  

Would you accept 50% rent in covid times, or the tenant hands back the keys and you get zero rent?   

[kinyara]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

Would you accept 50% rent in covid times, or the tenant hands back the keys and you get zero rent?   

 I had a tenant in the good times whose rent paid for 50% of the cost of my condo, I accepted a lower rent for a couple of years because it suited me but I decided at one point as rental prices declined to have it sit vacant because the value to me was more than the level someone was willing to pay. All depends on individual circumstance but as a rule I want to be the person making that judgement call, you rent you're not in charge of your own destiny as we are seeing. 

[chrisandsu]

3 hours ago, kinyara said:

 I had a tenant in the good times whose rent paid for 50% of the cost of my condo, I accepted a lower rent for a couple of years because it suited me but I decided at one point as rental prices declined to have it sit vacant because the value to me was more than the level someone was willing to pay. All depends on individual circumstance but as a rule I want to be the person making that judgement call, you rent you're not in charge of your own destiny as we are seeing. 

Which is why a business that does not own the real estate it’s sat on is not worth a penny . You would have to be seriously brain dead to buy a business in the current climate .

[scubascuba3]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

Nick Dean has announced that Pandora on Soi 7 is finished.

 

The back story is, the Thai landlord didn't want to share the covid pain.  What a smart businessman he must be.   

 

He said the Thai landlord has plans to renovate his tin roof beer bars on Soi 7.  Who would want to rent off a Thai landlord like that? 

 

I'm sure the owner wished he walked away earlier.  

 

 

Landlords need to share the pain 50/50 at least, often they aren't. My barber says she's got a 25% reduction, that's not fair, more should walk away until covid is definitely over, no more waves closing businesses

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, kinyara said:

I want to be the person making that judgement call, you rent you're not in charge of your own destiny as we are seeing. 

I like the sense of being in control, but that is more true for a guy renting who can simply pick up and move on.... there are some great bargains to be had out there these days... i know several who have bargained their rents down, and a few that have picked up larger and superior places for similar money they used to pay. That is being in control of your own destiny... getting tossed out onto the street is a rare thing, and it isn't as if a hotel room, or even cheap apartment, could not be found in Pattaya in a few hours. 

If they ever get serious with property taxes, the scene would change markedly.

[mstevens]

12 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I'm sure the owner wished he walked away earlier.

I imagine there are going to be many foreign business owners who feel that way. I hear that some Soi LK Metro bar owners are still paying rent at this time despite being closed for months and in all likelihood no chance to open for many months to come, followed by so much uncertainty. You'd have to be a real optimist AND have deep pockets not to walk away!

[kinyara]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I like the sense of being in control, but that is more true for a guy renting who can simply pick up and move on.... there are some great bargains to be had out there these days... i know several who have bargained their rents down, and a few that have picked up larger and superior places for similar money they used to pay. That is being in control of your own destiny... getting tossed out onto the street is a rare thing, and it isn't as if a hotel room, or even cheap apartment, could not be found in Pattaya in a few hours. 

If they ever get serious with property taxes, the scene would change markedly.

I agree with you to a much greater extent on domestic rental, I think commercial rental brings a different set of factors into play. 

[jacko45k]

49 minutes ago, kinyara said:

I agree with you to a much greater extent on domestic rental, I think commercial rental brings a different set of factors into play. 

Commercial is a different beast and carries its risks.... a successful business can soon see rents go up astronomically. And I know of one who put a lot of time and effort into building up a tourist gift and souvenir shop, to basically have his landlord force him out, and he took over the business.

[Leaver]

15 hours ago, kinyara said:

 I had a tenant in the good times whose rent paid for 50% of the cost of my condo, I accepted a lower rent for a couple of years because it suited me but I decided at one point as rental prices declined to have it sit vacant because the value to me was more than the level someone was willing to pay. All depends on individual circumstance but as a rule I want to be the person making that judgement call, you rent you're not in charge of your own destiny as we are seeing. 

 

Residential tenancy leases are a lot different to commercial leases.  Apples and oranges.  

 

As someone who rents a condo here, I would suggest I have more control over my destiny in Pattaya / Thailand than someone who owns a condo here, even pre covid.  

[Leaver]

13 hours ago, mstevens said:

I imagine there are going to be many foreign business owners who feel that way. I hear that some Soi LK Metro bar owners are still paying rent at this time despite being closed for months and in all likelihood no chance to open for many months to come, followed by so much uncertainty. You'd have to be a real optimist AND have deep pockets not to walk away!

 

How deep do your pockets have to be to continue on for practically a full lease term, with not 1 baht of profit in sight?  

 

Some may think they are holding on to a prime location, but prime location for who, and when?  

[HashBrownHarry]

23 hours ago, Leaver said:

Would you accept 50% rent in covid times, or the tenant hands back the keys and you get zero rent?   

If the landlords own the land they won't need 50% of the rent.

[Leaver]

7 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

If the landlords own the land they won't need 50% of the rent.

That's why they are still demanding 100% of the rent, in covid times, because they don't need the money, and don't care.  

[HashBrownHarry]

Just now, Leaver said:

That's why they are still demanding 100% of the rent, in covid times, because they don't need the money, and don't care.  

Your comment suggests that the landlords would prefer the 50% and now you say they don't need the money, which is it?

 

The rent from these little tin hut bars is a drop in the ocean to what the land value is, many hundreds of years or rent money, even at 100%.

[Leaver]

16 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Your comment suggests that the landlords would prefer the 50% and now you say they don't need the money, which is it?

 

The rent from these little tin hut bars is a drop in the ocean to what the land value is, many hundreds of years or rent money, even at 100%.

 

Land value isn't a revenue stream.  Rental income is. 

 

No point a Thai landlord having a 100 billion baht plot of land, which he does not want to sell, and it brings nothing in each month.  

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Leaver

[HashBrownHarry]

22 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Land value isn't a revenue stream.  Rental income is. 

 

No point a Thai landlord having a 100 billion baht plot of land, which he does not want to sell, and it brings nothing in each month.  

 

You on drugs?

[Olmate]

Noticed the BMW Smart Car about in Soi Bukhow Tree Town area couple of days this week. Maybe some work permits.. extensions have expired along with the business,s!

[Leaver]

23 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

You on drugs?

 

No, Harry.  An asset holder can enjoy capital growth, whilst also deriving an income from the asset.  

[Leaver]

An unusual one.  Not a bar or restaurant.    

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/clinic-for-sale-436996

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

An unusual one.  Not a bar or restaurant.    

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/clinic-for-sale-436996

What a pathetic ad, no details provided

[Leaver]

15 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

What a pathetic ad, no details provided

 

I thought the same myself.  

 

I can't place the building, so I don't know how big it is, but given the expense of turning the Pook Bar complex on Soi Baukaew into a nightclub, perhaps it may have been better to take a building like this over.  

 

Nightclub downstairs, VIP rooms upstairs.  

[Mr Meeseeks]

19 hours ago, Leaver said:

An unusual one.  Not a bar or restaurant.    

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/clinic-for-sale-436996

All still living in dreamland by the looks of things. 

[Mike Teavee]

18 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I thought the same myself.  

 

I can't place the building, so I don't know how big it is, but given the expense of turning the Pook Bar complex on Soi Baukaew into a nightclub, perhaps it may have been better to take a building like this over.  

 

Nightclub downstairs, VIP rooms upstairs.  

search on the phone number brings back Diva Clinic https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x3102be1cb09d0e07%3A0x43c98921ddac4af3!3m1!7e115!4s%2Fmaps%2Fplace%2F%22062%2B639%2B1691%22%2F%4012.9493155%2C100.9056911%2C3a%2C75y%2C278.42h%2C90t%2Fdata%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211svrecSCb5ceennwIGfcldOw*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x3102be1cb09d0e07%3A0x43c98921ddac4af3%3Fsa%3DX!5s"062 639 1691" - Google Search!15sCgIgAQ&imagekey=!1e2!2svrecSCb5ceennwIGfcldOw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiT0snGusHyAhVVzDgGHYJCCR0Qpx8wCnoECEUQCA

 

 

[rott]

On 8/14/2021 at 4:46 AM, chrisandsu said:

Which is why a business that does not own the real estate it’s sat on is not worth a penny . You would have to be seriously brain dead to buy a business in the current climate .

Are you only referring to businesses in Thailand here.? It is my experience from the UK that most businesses do not own the property but I have never seen any stats on the subject. 

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, rott said:

Are you only referring to businesses in Thailand here.? It is my experience from the UK that most businesses do not own the property but I have never seen any stats on the subject. 

 

I think the member is referring to Thailand.  If you have a business here and renting the property, you are at the mercy of the Thai landlord, and in many cases, become just a slave to the Thai landlord.  The harder you work and the more your business grows, the more he increases the rent.  

[rott]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I think the member is referring to Thailand.  If you have a business here and renting the property, you are at the mercy of the Thai landlord, and in many cases, become just a slave to the Thai landlord.  The harder you work and the more your business grows, the more he increases the rent.  

I agree with you, people describe themselves as bar owners and they are in fact bar renters. 

Never an easy life and not likely to get any easier. 

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, rott said:

I agree with you, people describe themselves as bar owners and they are in fact bar renters. 

Never an easy life and not likely to get any easier. 

 

Probably more like bar managers, despite putting up all the cash.