Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[Leaver]

21 hours ago, kinyara said:

You mean other than the massive EEC multi billion baht infrastructure plan that is in progress enhancing the rail transport link from Bangkok to Pattaya, expanding and upgrading U-Tapao to offer a more direct air connection for more people ?  Once again what else do tourists really need ?

 

They have only had decades, so where is it?

 

It's not so much what tourists need, but what offers tourist a more pleasant holiday.  They need infrastructure that makes sense.  They need infrastructure that is functional.  They need infrastructure that is properly maintained.  They need infrastructure that is corruption free.  They need infrastructure does doesn't cause disruption to their holiday.  They need infrastructure that doesn't see them standing for hours in queues.  They need infrastructure that is safe.  They need infrastructure that doesn't have to be replaced every year.

 

21 hours ago, kinyara said:

I don't see the current mode of transport from Bangkok to Pattaya as being particularly different to any other major capital city in the world, I think it's pretty good personally and the building of Suvarnabunmi was a great boon to Pattaya compared to the old days of Don Muang. 

 

So a few old buses running between Bangkok airport and Pattaya, and thousands of private taxi journeys, most carrying only one passenger, is fine to transport millions of people each year.  Really? 

 

21 hours ago, kinyara said:

I wonder if tourists really go home and say they are not coming back to Pattaya because of the pavements.

 

I suppose the ones that roll an ankle, stub or break a toe, trip and fall etc, will not be happy.

 

 

Note the date of the article, 2017.   Nothing has changed in 2022. 

 

How can they compete with a neighboring country building world record breaking infrastructure, when they can't even build a half decent sidewalk for tourists to walk on?

[kinyara]

58 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

One of the advantages of a farang manager, that wouldn't of happened

In saying that I recently watched an interview with a foreign manager bigging up his new establishment, how he felt his finger was on the pulse delivering what his customers wanted music and entertainment wise, thought I'd give it a try as he seemed switched on and a personable guy. Experienced the exact scenario as Jacko mentioned, it was all about the DJ indulging himself with the ear blasting car crash dirge that appeals to no-one except the staff partying amongst themselves. I caught the eye of the foreigner at the next table, if there were many customers before they had all cleared out, and he just smiled and shook his head. What made it worse was the manager was actually there. 

 

 A good example of why there is always a revolving door of unsuccessful businesses in town, I doubt anyone experiencing that place that night for the first time would bother giving it a second chance when there are so many alternatives.

[Leaver]

21 hours ago, kinyara said:

I actually do see it as an investment, without my money and similar like minded customers the business would cease to exist. I don't ask the owner if I can check his books to see what sort of return he's making, Some businesses do well, some do badly and go bust, the key point for me is Pattaya attracts millions of customers, so offer a good product/service that people want and you every chance of doing well. I think it's a good investment if you know what you are doing, same as anywhere in the world.

 

Once again, you have failed to answer my simply hypothetical question.  I gather because your answer doesn't match your narrative. 

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, kinyara said:

In saying that I recently watched an interview with a foreign manager bigging up his new establishment, how he felt his finger was on the pulse delivering what his customers wanted music and entertainment wise, thought I'd give it a try as he seemed switched on and a personable guy. Experienced the exact scenario as Jacko mentioned, it was all about the DJ indulging himself with the ear blasting car crash dirge that appeals to no-one except the staff partying amongst themselves. I caught the eye of the foreigner at the next table, if there were many customers before they had all cleared out, and he just smiled and shook his head. What made it worse was the manager was actually there. 

 

 A good example of why there is always a revolving door of unsuccessful businesses in town, I doubt anyone experiencing that place that night for the first time would bother giving it a second chance when there are so many alternatives.

ok "good" manager, the ones with experience should realise, you'd hope anyway. Talk to customers and he'd be told

[kinyara]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

They have only had decades, so where is it?

 

It's not so much what tourists need, but what offers tourist a more pleasant holiday.  They need infrastructure that makes sense.  They need infrastructure that is functional.  They need infrastructure that is properly maintained.  They need infrastructure that is corruption free.  They need infrastructure does doesn't cause disruption to their holiday.  They need infrastructure that doesn't see them standing for hours in queues.  They need infrastructure that is safe.  They need infrastructure that doesn't have to be replaced every year.

 

 

So a few old buses running between Bangkok airport and Pattaya, and thousands of private taxi journeys, most carrying only one passenger, is fine to transport millions of people each year.  Really? 

 

 

I suppose the ones that roll an ankle, stub or break a toe, trip and fall etc, will not be happy.

 

 

Note the date of the article, 2017.   Nothing has changed in 2022. 

 

How can they compete with a neighboring country building world record breaking infrastructure, when they can't even build a half decent sidewalk for tourists to walk on?

The numbers show they are competing perfectly well even expanding the number of visitors pre-Covid from its already market leading postion. I'd expect the current mega project, just like Suvarnabunmi the last one, to be a positive benefit to this area in the coming years. It has already attacted a major like Sony to choose this area which I look on as a positive sign for the future.

 

I don't have any statistics on the average age of buses serving tourists in Thailand compared to other countries, do you ?  What form of transport do you take when you arrive in Vietnam ?

 

 

[kinyara]

13 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Once again, you have failed to answer my simply hypothetical question.  I gather because your answer doesn't match your narrative. 

The hypothesis you presented was clearly ridiculous, I told you what I believe and others continually tell you, good well run businesses offer their investors the opportunity for success, bad ones don't. If you can't understand that reality I can't really help you. It's not rocket science.

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, kinyara said:

I find staying indoors when it is raining heavily a good policy to avoid one. For tourists in central Pattaya unlucky enough to be caught out I'd recommend jumping on a baht bus or crossing the beach road to Central or T21 for a nice meal, a couple of hours max if that and it drains away. The earlier part of my post which you didn't quote referred to high season when the majority of tourists are here, surely people know it's peak rainy season now and you do run the risk of a temporary flash flood albeit irregularly.

 

What about the various tours and activities tourists book?  Eg.  Nong Nooch.  They miss out.  Basically a waste of a day/s of their holiday.

 

With the Chinese making up the majority of tourists here, pre covid, high season and low season was "smoothed out" by a steady stream of Chinese, all year around.

 

I am not saying there is no high season / peak season anymore, just that there are a lot of Chinese, and Indian tourists, in the traditional low season, covid aside. 

 

Probably the people that can least afford it, are hit the hardest by the flooding here.

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

What about the various tours and activities tourists book?  Eg.  Nong Nooch.  They miss out.  Basically a waste of a day/s of their holiday.

LOL. Thanks God.that this only occurs here!!   Keep digging and swimming tho... the replies keep us all 'bemused'!! 

[Leaver]

On 9/21/2022 at 3:43 AM, kinyara said:

The hypothesis you presented was clearly ridiculous,

 

No, it's not, but I will make it even more simple for you.  Name a few businesses here that, if listed on the stock market, you would buy shares in for a short to medium term profit / dividend on your investment. 

[Leaver]

21 hours ago, Olmate said:

LOL. Thanks God.that this only occurs here!!   Keep digging and swimming tho... the replies keep us all 'bemused'!! 

 

I don't think tourists are "bemused" when they stand on the steps of their hotel and realize they are flooded in for hours, possibly the day, and have missed their day trip to whatever / wherever. 

 

It's only been happening for decades.  Truly a World Class Tourists Destination.  ????

[Leaver]

On 9/21/2022 at 3:38 AM, kinyara said:

The numbers show they are competing perfectly well even expanding the number of visitors pre-Covid from its already market leading postion.

 

No argument from me about this, however, as debated here before, the majority of the numbers are cheap Chinese zero baht package holiday tourists, with profits being repatriated back to China. 

 

It will be interesting so see over the next few years where western tourists chose to holiday, and I mean tourists, not sex tourists. 

 

On 9/21/2022 at 3:38 AM, kinyara said:

I don't have any statistics on the average age of buses serving tourists in Thailand compared to other countries, do you ?  What form of transport do you take when you arrive in Vietnam ?

 

The buses look old and are not nice coach buses, thus, most individual tourists chose a vehicle, usually a private taxi.  Everyday, thousands of private vehicles, yes, thousands, convey individual tourists, being the sole passenger, between Bangkok - Pattaya - Bangkok, to the detriment of the environment, roads, traffic, cost etc etc.  This has not changed for decades. 

 

When arriving in Vietnam, I take a metered taxi from the airport into the city. 

[Leaver]

On 9/21/2022 at 3:23 AM, kinyara said:

In saying that I recently watched an interview with a foreign manager bigging up his new establishment, how he felt his finger was on the pulse delivering what his customers wanted music and entertainment wise, thought I'd give it a try as he seemed switched on and a personable guy. Experienced the exact scenario as Jacko mentioned, it was all about the DJ indulging himself with the ear blasting car crash dirge that appeals to no-one except the staff partying amongst themselves. I caught the eye of the foreigner at the next table, if there were many customers before they had all cleared out, and he just smiled and shook his head. What made it worse was the manager was actually there. 

 

You have just described ALL the bars owned by a certain company on Soi 6.  ???? 

[kinyara]

10 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

No, it's not, but I will make it even more simple for you.  Name a few businesses here that, if listed on the stock market, you would buy shares in for a short to medium term profit / dividend on your investment. 

Central Pattana, Bangkok Hospital Group, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Minor Group. 

[Leaver]

On 9/21/2022 at 3:33 AM, scubascuba3 said:

ok "good" manager, the ones with experience should realise, you'd hope anyway. Talk to customers and he'd be told

 

Yeah, when you have three customers in your bar that are in their 50's, what do you do, you play the latest electronic music at an ear bleeding nightclub volume, because that's what they will like, but as long as your bar's sound system is louder than next door's, that's the main thing.  ????

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Central Pattana, Bangkok Hospital Group, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Minor Group. 

 

Too funny.

 

We are talking bars and restaurants, as per the thread title. 

[kinyara]

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

You have just described ALL the bars owned by a certain company on Soi 6.  ???? 

I wouldn't know about those bars, I've chosen never to put a baht of my money into that group's coffers.

[kinyara]

10 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

No argument from me about this, however, as debated here before, the majority of the numbers are cheap Chinese zero baht package holiday tourists, with profits being repatriated back to China. 

 

It will be interesting so see over the next few years where western tourists chose to holiday, and I mean tourists, not sex tourists. 

 

 

The buses look old and are not nice coach buses, thus, most individual tourists chose a vehicle, usually a private taxi.  Everyday, thousands of private vehicles, yes, thousands, convey individual tourists, being the sole passenger, between Bangkok - Pattaya - Bangkok, to the detriment of the environment, roads, traffic, cost etc etc.  This has not changed for decades. 

 

When arriving in Vietnam, I take a metered taxi from the airport into the city. 

I hadn't realised just how big the expansion of U-Tapao was until I saw the details yesterday as the project kicked off. A planned annual capacity of 60 million visitors with 124 landing slots. Wouldn't be surprised to see airlines like Vietjet flying directly here to capitalise on Pattaya's growing popularity with Vietnamese tourists.

[kinyara]

8 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Too funny.

 

We are talking bars and restaurants, as per the thread title. 

I eat in many of the varied restaurant choices in Central regularly and I don't mind some of Minor Group's food outlets either. I like their diversification both locally and internationally from an investment viewpoint, spreads the risk.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, kinyara said:

Central Pattana, Bangkok Hospital Group, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Minor Group. 

McDonalds, KFC, Taco Bell, Ford, Toyota, Red Bull, 

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, kinyara said:

I hadn't realised just how big the expansion of U-Tapao was until I saw the details yesterday as the project kicked off. A planned annual capacity of 60 million visitors with 124 landing slots. Wouldn't be surprised to see airlines like Vietjet flying directly here to capitalise on Pattaya's growing popularity with Vietnamese tourists.

There's a project that's just east of the airport along the sea that's massive.

[Wongkitlo]

8 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

You have just described ALL the bars owned by a certain company on Soi 6.  ???? 

I always thought the predominant age group in Pattaya (over 50's) like dance music and Thai pop songs. 

[Leaver]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:45 PM, Wongkitlo said:

I always thought the predominant age group in Pattaya (over 50's) like dance music and Thai pop songs. 

 

I think you will find they like 80's music, at a reasonable volume, as seen by the popularity of the "Scooters" style bars. 

[Leaver]

On 9/22/2022 at 4:21 AM, kinyara said:

I wouldn't know about those bars, I've chosen never to put a baht of my money into that group's coffers.

 

The hypothetical question, which you continue to dodge, includes every hospitality venue in Pattaya, not just global chains like KFC. 

 

[Leaver]

On 9/22/2022 at 4:29 AM, kinyara said:

Wouldn't be surprised to see airlines like Vietjet flying directly here to capitalise on Pattaya's growing popularity with Vietnamese tourists.

 

Or, Vietjet flying directly here to capitalize on Vietnam's growing popularity with Thai tourists.  ???? 

[kinyara]

30 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Or, Vietjet flying directly here to capitalize on Vietnam's growing popularity with Thai tourists.  ???? 

2019 :

Vietnam tourists to Thailand - 1,048k

Thai tourists to Vietnam - 510k

 

I guess Thais want a bit more than a world record breaking cable car ride. ????. 

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, kinyara said:

I guess Thais want a bit more than a world record breaking cable car ride.

 

I guess it's a loss of "face" for them.  ????

[kinyara]

39 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

The hypothetical question, which you continue to dodge, includes every hospitality venue in Pattaya, not just global chains like KFC. 

 

Why would anyone want to dilute potential returns by lumping in a load of dud hospitality venues in with ones you think are going to be successful, no sound investor adopts that approach ?  I wouldn't invest in every hospitality venue, I'd prefer to invest in the ones I think have a long-term investable track record with, The Sportsman or The Hopf would be a couple of that sort.

[Wongkitlo]

19 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I think you will find they like 80's music, at a reasonable volume, as seen by the popularity of the "Scooters" style bars. 

Was an attempt at sarcasm????

[PJ71]

20 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I think you will find they like 80's music, at a reasonable volume, as seen by the popularity of the "Scooters" style bars. 

Are you suggesting that all mid 50's like 80's music, how on earth would you know?

 

What 'style' would you suggest that Scooters is?

[Leaver]

On 9/26/2022 at 6:37 AM, kinyara said:

Why would anyone want to dilute potential returns by lumping in a load of dud hospitality venues in with ones you think are going to be successful, no sound investor adopts that approach ?  I wouldn't invest in every hospitality venue, I'd prefer to invest in the ones I think have a long-term investable track record with, The Sportsman or The Hopf would be a couple of that sort.

 

Ok, so, once again, hypothetically, Pattaya's hospitality portfolio has some non performing assets mixed in with some profitable assets.

 

What percentage of the hospitality portfolio, as a whole, or total venues here, do you put at non performing to profitable and worth investing in?  

 

Would the profitable asset percentage be so small that the portfolio would not be worth investing in?

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Leaver