Foreign house owner and guest house manager fined for not reporting foreigners within 24 hours

[LivinLOS]

18 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Do you think a Thai girl who wants to travel on her own to Europe will get a Visa that easy? Normally the girls are invited by someone, and that someone are her guarantee. So the border police in that country will know where she is supposed to stay. 

If they have genuine wealth, they dont have problems.. 

 

If they have no means of supporting themselves, no high income salary, no assets etc.. How would they travel and not work illegally etc. 

[LivinLOS]

18 hours ago, Max69xl said:

If you invite a Thai person to stay with you in, let's say Europe (EU), you are the guarantee that she stays with you. So,the immigration/border police in your country knows where she is. 

and yet, she never reports to anyone, never reports her movements or addresses, or where she stays or intends to stay.. 

[Mattd]

43 minutes ago, Yinn said:

My point is the simple tm30 document is more easy to do than even just go your country for a two day holiday.

I do not totally disagree, but this is not the issue, in reality myself and the company I work for do have to jump through hoops to retain my stay in Thailand, this despite contributing a relatively large sum to the country though PIT, this aside, my point is that this is an additional requirement within Thailand is applied AFTER the visa or extension to enter has been granted, no such requirements exist for the majority of other countries.

On a personal level, if this reporting was in force 18 months ago, then I would have had to make a TM.30 twice weekly, with all of the time taken to do this, which would have been at the expense of the Thai company who was employing me at that time and therefore the Thai economy, given that immigration knew where I was employed and where I lived, then it is OTT and it would certainly not be easy to comply.

 

50 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Yes but but the police must also get the foreign criminal.

Totally agree, unfortunately, in reality, TM.30 reporting won't help there, as the criminals simply would not comply.

 

51 minutes ago, Yinn said:

If you give me a free visa to go, then no problem.

We give you free visa, you do not give us free visa. We must pay, even if you say no. Scam

The ease of visas for Thais to other countries is not relevant to the subject of TM.30 and it is one that is a completely different subject, one reason for the difference is tourism revenue.

The question I was asking is would the Thai people be happy to comply with reporting their location to the Thai authorities each and every time they moved province or went overseas?

[JamesBlond]

It's not the principle of the TM30 that is the problem, it's the inconvenience of the process. Get the rules clear, get the app working smoothly, and there won't be all this commotion - we won't be talking about it at all.

[amykat]

58 minutes ago, Yinn said:

My point is the simple tm30 document is more easy to do than even just go your country for a two day holiday.

 

Yes but but the police must also get the foreign criminal.

 

If you give me a free visa to go, then no problem.

We give you free visa, you do not give us free visa. We must pay, even if you say no. Scam

The point of paying to APPLY for a visa, is that you are paying for the processing of your paperwork/visa.  This work happens even when you are denied, the same as when you are given the visa. It is not an entry charge like getting into Disneyland.

 

Many people do try to scam the visa system and do lie while doing the application. You can’t be Thai and not know that, people talk freely about it all the time!!! If this process was free, like handing out free lottery tickets that might payoff one day, many people would just keep trying.  

 

Yinn, you don’t say what your job is now?  

[amykat]

9 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

The criminal doesn't do the TM30 report, the place they stay at does a report, Very hard for the criminal to stay or relocate if 90% of accommodation reports his whereabouts to immigration.

All a criminal has to do is go find a bargirl in any town, and use her as his frontman for everything.  A three year old can figure that out.  You can do without ever being here before, without knowing language ...

[richjom]

This whole TM30 has put me off coming back to Thailand. I like to go there and relax, not worry about some silly reporting of my location or worrying if the condo management or hotel has reported my stay to immigration? Can't wait to see the bloodbath with the real-estate industry in places like Pattaya... Combined with these nonsense rules and a terrible exchange rate Thailand tourism could be headed for serious problems. As a genuine tourist why on earth Thailand officials need to know every time I move to a new hotel is completely ridiculous.

[kevin612]

Of course, foreign house owner will pay and can not escape.

[ericthai]

3 hours ago, richjom said:

This whole TM30 has put me off coming back to Thailand. I like to go there and relax, not worry about some silly reporting of my location or worrying if the condo management or hotel has reported my stay to immigration? Can't wait to see the bloodbath with the real-estate industry in places like Pattaya... Combined with these nonsense rules and a terrible exchange rate Thailand tourism could be headed for serious problems. As a genuine tourist why on earth Thailand officials need to know every time I move to a new hotel is completely ridiculous.

A genuine tourist will not be effected. All hotels are required to report the TM30 not you, if it's reported or not is a hotel thing. Not having a TM30 only becomes an issue if you need to go to immigration for something such as a an extension.  If a tourist is staying in a hotel it's a 90%+ chance the hotel will report so dont worry.

[joecoolfrog]

5 hours ago, Yinn said:

My point is the simple tm30 document is more easy to do than even just go your country for a two day holiday.

 

Yes but but the police must also get the foreign criminal.

 

If you give me a free visa to go, then no problem.

We give you free visa, you do not give us free visa. We must pay, even if you say no. Scam

Its not a scam , its a reflection of the median income of respective countries. If you dont like it then pressure your government to raise the income of poor Thais and help to alleviate the disparity.

But of course visa issues have nothing to do with TM 30 , you are just using them as a deflection , enjoy your dictatorship , you get bitten next.

[ThaiLawOnline]

On 8/27/2019 at 11:52 AM, worgeordie said:

They are never going to scrap the TM 30, it's a nice earner for them,

the fines are even bigger than most of the fines been handed out on

the roads,it's always more dangerous not knowing where you are,

than going through a red light

regards worgeordie

 

Wait few months when economy is hit and more foreigners leave.....you are right, money is important. But TM30 will make them lose money.

[kellersphuket]

17 hours ago, Yinn said:

 

If you give me a free visa to go, then no problem.

We give you free visa, you do not give us free visa. We must pay, even if you say no. Scam

do you have to do 90 day reports once you land in a western country and live there???

 

No, you dont.

Do you have to fill in a TM30 if you live in New York and visit New Jersey for the day?

No, you dont.

 

so why the hell should we? it's a stupid law and will damage thai business in the long run. maybe then immigration will start to listen.

Money money money.

[looplaw]

12 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

 

Wait few months when economy is hit and more foreigners leave.....you are right, money is important. But TM30 will make them lose money.

There are always more people coming to live here  every day. That's why the lines at immigration offices aren't getting any shorter.

[ThaiLawOnline]

4 hours ago, looplaw said:

There are always more people coming to live here  every day. That's why the lines at immigration offices aren't getting any shorter.

 

They are mostly Chinese and Indian and won’t solve all problems.

immigrants bring with them knowledge, technology and many things. Chinese buy everything.

See Bloomberg report published on 25 July 2019, showed that Thailand’s average growth starting in 1990 declined from 5.3% to 4.3% in the middle of the 1990’s. And it is expected to decline even further to 3.3% in 2019. 

The fertility rate in Thailand has plunged from 6.6% to 2.2%. The population of Thailand is aging rapidly.  And over the last 12 years, the cost of healthcare has increased by 12%. All these numbers are taken from the Bloomberg article. Immigration is a solution to the actual problems. The current situation will make investors afraid...

[losworld]

On 8/27/2019 at 11:48 AM, OneZero said:

It's a money maker to pay for bureaucratic make work (ie, job security for bureaucrats - look how busy I am).

If there is indeed a national security benefit, I doubt that it is appreciable or cost effective.

cost effective in someone's pocket maybe...

[fhickson]

for that amount i would just not worry about it and risk the fine, unless there are more serious consequences down the road.

how did they know it was not reported? did the guest report his address on a visa extention for somewhere and they matched it up?

[daveAustin]

He was only fined. I mean, look at him! If I was Thai and running the show, he'd be on the plane. The TM30 is a joke, but can you blame them for shaking things up when they see tat like that on their streets? They've had enough.

[charmonman]

On 8/28/2019 at 1:56 AM, Yinn said:

My point is the simple tm30 document is more easy to do than even just go your country for a two day holiday.

 

Yes but but the police must also get the foreign criminal.

 

If you give me a free visa to go, then no problem.

We give you free visa, you do not give us free visa. We must pay, even if you say no. Scam

Yinn, I would be perfectly happy if my country made it easier for Thais to come here, though I do hear a fair bit of Thai being spoken when I walk around downtown so they are clearly letting a fair number of your fellow citizens in. I suspect they are ones who have a certain level of wealth or income.

 

That being said, the difficult entry requirements for my country in no way justify the police state mentality of your country’s immigration department regarding this ridiculous TM30.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, kellersphuket said:

do you have to do 90 day reports once you land in a western country and live there???

 

No, you dont.

Do you have to fill in a TM30 if you live in New York and visit New Jersey for the day?

No, you dont.

 

so why the hell should we? it's a stupid law and will damage thai business in the long run. maybe then immigration will start to listen.

Money money money.

It's been the law for a very long time and never damaged Thai business before.

Amongst the millions of Chinese visiting every year westerners hardly figure at immigration.

[30la]

I'm really thinking of denouncing all those who are unwilling to respect the law, for these characters, we who are legally have more and more restrictions from the authorities!

[Max69xl]

On 8/30/2019 at 9:39 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Far as I know Aussies get visa free entry to the UK for a 2 day holiday, with no requirement of any of that.

Westerners get visa free entry to Thailand for less than 30 days with no requirement for any of that, though possibly have to show exit flight ticket and 20,000 baht- I was never asked for that, not even when applying for a tourist visa.

The 20000 baht demand is quite new and are often used as an excuse to get rid of people with many 30 days visa exempts in a row and begpackers. If you have a 60 days TR Visa obtained in your home country, you are in the eyes of Immigration more serious. 

[Max69xl]

On 8/29/2019 at 2:24 PM, looplaw said:

There are always more people coming to live here  every day. That's why the lines at immigration offices aren't getting any shorter.

Immigration at the Suwarnabhumi airport is understaffed. That's closer to the truth. Don't believe the numbers coming from TAT in BKK. 

The boss has been saying all year, there are no problems with tourists 2019, but everybody can see there are way less tourists than last year and the year before that.

Thai Airways lost billions the first 6 months 2019,and that's a good indicator. It shows the reality.

[Celer et Audax]

It is not about the type of residents it about the ownership!, most of the foreigners that live in thai, and the tourist that visit thai are not own there apartments or houses in Thailand. 
 
so as long as they not purchase home in Thailand,  the tm 30 got nothing to do with them,  only the thai landlord of their rented house or apartment , or hotel they stay ( if they are tourist  ) need to report the government on thier resident on his establishment .

not the foreigner because his not the owner,  the fine is for the owner.  
 
So also when a foreigner that live in thai, or visit thai for long time as a tourist change residents for more then 24 hours,  it not his problem !,  the duty to report is only on the landlord of his apartment or hotel owner where he stays now . 
 
Many tourist not only expat,  have apartments in thai, or rent apartments, they not necessarily stays in hotels,  but they not care about tm 30 if they not the owners of thier residents.  
 
 

If you rent a property you are defined as the “possessor” so you can file a TM 30 you do not have to be the owner of said property


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[brewsterbudgen]

For the 12th million time  ----- That is citizenship not a bleeding visa. 

I was referring to visas not citizenship.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[kevozman1]

On 8/27/2019 at 7:46 AM, Yinn said:

In my country, you can come for 30 day with no document at all. 

 

So more than 20 pages of document for two day holiday to your country.

AND must pay for Visa application

AND no refund if they reject visa application

because they ASSUME I liar and criminal.

 

i think more easy just to do the easy one page TM30. (And the hotel do it for 98%)

Or not? 

 

I happy to change. I do the free TM30 and you do 20 pages and pay. Ok?

 

Yes Thai nationals have a harder time travelling abroad than people from more developed nations, but that is a separate issue to the levels of red tape being enforced on expats currently in Thailand. I agree it isn't good that you have to jump through those hoops just for a holiday, but all you are really doing here is antagonising people with your whataboutism..

 

 

[looplaw]

17 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Immigration at the Suwarnabhumi airport is understaffed. That's closer to the truth. Don't believe the numbers coming from TAT in BKK. 

The boss has been saying all year, there are no problems with tourists 2019, but everybody can see there are way less tourists than last year and the year before that.

Thai Airways lost billions the first 6 months 2019,and that's a good indicator. It shows the reality.

I was not referring to tourists . I am talking about people who are coming to live in Thailand long term, ie.,

retirement, expats.

 

[mercman24]

post 11, its not so much about the document filling,  it is about BIG BROTHER watching you, do you think a terrorist or a person up to no good would check in at a hotel, as to coming to my country, once here you can go wherever you like in it, abviously you have never left your country, as you would know this. not having to fill a bloody form in at every place you visit.

[Max69xl]

14 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

post 11, its not so much about the document filling,  it is about BIG BROTHER watching you, do you think a terrorist or a person up to no good would check in at a hotel, as to coming to my country, once here you can go wherever you like in it, abviously you have never left your country, as you would know this. not having to fill a bloody form in at every place you visit.

Remember, Thai Immigration doesn't use logic thinking.

I doubt there's even a word in Thai for logic. 

But you are not filling in any form at every place you visit. That's what the hotel/guesthouse are supposed to do. That's what this thread is about. You might have to take care of the TM30 when coming back home. 

[drbeach]

On 9/2/2019 at 12:54 AM, kevozman1 said:

 

Yes Thai nationals have a harder time travelling abroad than people from more developed nations, but that is a separate issue to the levels of red tape being enforced on expats currently in Thailand. I agree it isn't good that you have to jump through those hoops just for a holiday, but all you are really doing here is antagonising people with your whataboutism..

 

 

As you say, and what Yinn doesn't get is that if Thais were allowed to enter western countries visa-free they'd all go there and overstay, working illegally in massage parlours, as prostitutes or in Thai restaurants. Thais are an overstay risk, just look at the numbers overstaying in South Korea, Japan and Taiwan, all countries allowing Thais in visa-free. New Zealand allowed Thais in visa-free until 1996, when they ended the privilege because half the country came and overstayed.

 

Difference is that expats from western countries generally don't run off to Thailand in the hopes of finding anything here career wise since wages are usually far lower than back home and it's more difficult to find a job in the first place as most expats only have limited options to make a living here - either by starting a business, being an English teacher/educator at an international school or university or working in some professional job, usually at the management level.

[drbeach]

If Thailand wants to do something about preventing terrorism, curbing crime or illegal entry how about patrolling their porous border better? As it stands, one can simply hop on a free casino boat from Mae Sot and go over to a casino in Myanmar and then disappear. Or vice versa. Especially easy if you look Thai or even if you don't, you just walk off the boat, up the stairs and that's it.