TM30: The form getting expats in Thailand into a bureaucratic tangle

[webfact]

TM30: The form getting expats in Thailand into a bureaucratic tangle

The TM30 form is complex and must often be completed in person

 

Thailand has long been an attractive destination for Western expats - where money goes further and can buy a good quality of life. But the revival of an arcane immigration law has angered the expat community and got them questioning their freedoms in Thailand, as George Styllis reports from Bangkok.

 

"I've been made to feel as if I'm not welcome here," says Zareeka Gardner, a 25-year-old English teacher from the US.

 

Since arriving in Thailand in April, she has racked up immigration fines totalling 12,400 baht (£330). A large part of that is because her apartment manager failed to promptly file a form saying where she was staying.

 

Thailand's Immigration Act contains a clause requiring all foreigners to let the authorities know where they're staying at all times.

 

Previously this job has been done by hotels collecting guests' details, or it was just ignored. But as of March, the government has been applying the law without compromise or exception.

 

Landlords must notify immigration authorities whenever a foreigner returns home after spending more than 24 hours away from their permanent residence - be it a trip abroad or even leaving the province. The same applies to foreigners married to Thais - their Thai spouse, if they own the house, must file the report.

 

The form, known as a TM30, must be submitted within 24 hours of the foreigner's arrival or the property owner will be fined. Iif the fine isn't paid, the foreigner will be unable to renew their visa or other permits until that's rectified.

 

'It's too much'

The process has provoked confusion and consternation across Thailand, prompting caustic cartoons from local newspapers and outrage on social media.

 

Full story: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49470726

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2019-08-29

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[RotBenz8888]

It will never be abolished because its a source of income and it assures that the IOs can keep their jobs. And the app will be kept malfunctioning for the same reasons.

[Just1Voice]

I have seen some truly asinine things in Thailand in my 10+ years here, but this B.S. tops them all. 

This has effectively killed my 2-10 day bike trips around the country. May as well sell my 300cc bikes and buy a 150 PCX. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Just1Voice

[tjo o tjim]

The logistics of the process are just asinine. I can see needing to have all of your “permanent” addresses on file, but it is amusing to think how someone on (say) Koh Tao with a condo in BKK would actually be able to comply as they go between places. 

[3421abc]

Great BBC picked up this story. Hopefully other news outlets will report as well. This should be an embarrassment for Thailand if they ever want to be a modern international country this kind of law only going against it.

[kellersphuket]

here's to hoping their faces get so broken that they are forced into repealing this ludicrous law.

 

It's the only way they will ever listen.

 

shame them over and over!

[mania]

We no longer live in Thailand & visiting 2-3 months a year on a Type O I get for $80 here at local Thai Consulate seems just fine without any reporting etc etc

I really enjoy the 3 months

 

But every time I read about this TM30 I just shake my head.,,,

 

What I cannot figure out is do they not see it as a slight against all their other processing of long stay visa 1 year extensions & 90 day reports?

 

I mean they supposedly vetted you when they gave you a 1 year permission to stay. Are they now doubting their own immigration office skills?

Even with the 90 day check backup?

 

If as they say it is to keep track of criminals does that mean they gave criminals 1 year visas?

 

Lastly if it is to keep track of criminals take a look at who has filled Thai Jails...It is not mainly foreigners it is Thai's so maybe better

start forcing all Thai's to submit a TM30 whenever they go traveling eh?

 

Oh they wouldn't dare would they? ???? Maybe that is why they are buying all the new armored vehicles ????

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by mania

[GraThai]

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

[trainman34014]

11 minutes ago, 3421abc said:

Great BBC picked up this story. Hopefully other news outlets will report as well. This should be an embarrassment for Thailand if they ever want to be a modern international country this kind of law only going against it.

You forget Thailand lives in a Parallel world and is therefore ignorant to what the real world thinks.  All the while the Junta wearing suits runs this country things will never get any better !

[madmen]

Its just another form of income (pun intended)

Its intended to be confusing and surely they know landlord Somchai is to scared of being busted as a tax cheat and will not comply... katching $$$$ tenant fined !

Edited August 29, 2019 by madmen

[lemonjelly]

The more outcry there is, the more the immigration department will dig its heels in. To change policy at this stage as a result of external pressure would be a massive loss of face; quite unthinkable.... stubborn dinosaurs they are.


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[ChipButty]

I now know a few Thai landlords are not interested in registering their properties so the onus is on the farang to do it but why does the tenant have to do it?

Should crack down on the owners

[mania]

9 minutes ago, GraThai said:

.unless of course people have something to hide?????

So your saying the long process of getting a yearly visa + 90 day checks leaves a lot of hiding space??

 

BTW: you say you have lived in Thailand 30+ years but joined this forum 12 minutes ago.

That is a record for sure ????

Edited August 29, 2019 by mania

[Classic Ray]

4 minutes ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

That is OK if you are retired, live near the IO, or have someone to do this for you. How about teachers and other employed people, are they meant to take a day off work to go there every time they return from a weekend away? It’s just a nuisance without any discernible value to the security of the country.

[puchooay]

38 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

I have seen some truly asinine things in Thailand in my 10+ years here, but this B.S. tops them all. 

This has effectively killed my 2-10 day bike trips around the country. May as well sell my 300cc bikes and buy a 150 PCX. 

You are going to sell your bike because a TM30 must be completed upon your return to your registered address? Really? Get online and register. It is very simple.

 

This whole TM30 saga has been blown totally out of proportion.

[idman]

The more people bit...ch and moan about this fiasco the more Thai Immigration will continue to dig their heels in and not waver one bit. It's this FACE notion. Put up with the TM 30, stop your whining and unless you are returning from outside the country you don't have to bother with jumping through silly hoops. With huge amount of paperwork Thai Immigration have to deal with on a daily what do really think think your chances of ever being caught are???

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[MaxLee]

Well, I live in my dad's house, who is a retired Thai National, but now he is in Germany and he cannot fill out the TM 30. I just recently renewed my Non immigrant B visa

 

Now my dad is not in Thailand to register me via TM 30,

 

What do I do now, hahahaha???

Edited August 29, 2019 by MaxLee

[mok199]

17 minutes ago, madmen said:

Its intended to be confusing and surely they know

nonsense ,way too much credit given to ''them'' ..and who is'' they'' pray tell...

[Inepto Cracy]

Stupid, stupid, stupid. I used to be able to travel around, spending my money where I pleased.

No I am a prisoner in my own home.

I hope the idiots who want this reap the rewards of no more money from tourism or expats.

Then we can all laugh at the crying idiots.

[300sd]

You want to get hold of us. Phone us, email us-you have our numbers. You get them every time we come to see you. And it is too often in my opinion.

 

You want to treat us like criminals! No thank you I have better things to do. And better places to spend my retirement funds.

[Denim]

14 minutes ago, trainman34014 said:

You forget Thailand lives in a Parallel world and is therefore ignorant to what the real world thinks.  All the while the Junta wearing suits runs this country things will never get any better !

 

Yes. Ironic that after the coup there were scores of posters (now silent)

who praised the junta and their declared intent to stop corruption and return happiness.

 

How's that working for them now ?

 

The military are behind all this paranoid xenophobia and it won't get better until they are reigned in.

 

They have so mismanaged the governing of the country that it is inevitable that an economic crash is not far down the tracks. The TM30 issue is just another log on the fire.

[NE1]

6 minutes ago, idman said:

Put up with the TM 30, stop your whining and unless you are returning from outside the country you don't have to bother with jumping through silly hoops.

If it were as you say , then I do not think there would be an outcry.

It is a fact that some immigration offices require the new TM30 if you spend a night away from your registered address.

 

And as for Foreigners been fined / refused extension because the landlord will not do the required TM 30 is absolutely ridiculous . 

Edited August 29, 2019 by NE1

[bluesofa]

53 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

I have seen some truly asinine things in Thailand in my 10+ years here, but this B.S. tops them all. 

This has effectively killed my 2-10 day bike trips around the country. May as well sell my 300cc bikes and buy a 150 PCX. 

I went on a cycling tour last year. Not one one the half-a-dozen places we stayed at were interested in looking at passports. One night, move on.

 

Edit: Perhaps the answer is to photocopy in advance all the details required on a single page, then give copies to where you stay, and get the guest house to sign a receipt for it.

 

Edit: Ha ha ha! OK, the 'receipt' wouldn't work, but handing out a single page photocopy might.

Edited August 29, 2019 by bluesofa

[GeorgeCross]

20 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

I now know a few Thai landlords are not interested in registering their properties so the onus is on the farang to do it but why does the tenant have to do it?

Should crack down on the owners

 

why? because an owner, so inclined, would just tell them to eff off and there is nothing they can do about it (besides a paltry fine that they would then ignore too)

 

foreigners on the other hand are a soft touch.. no TM no visa for you farang..

 

 

[rkidlad]

28 minutes ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

Some of us have lives that we enjoy living. Unfortunately, there are people with nothing to do in their lives and the TM30 has given them a sense of purpose in life again. My advice to these very sad people? Get a hobby. 

[puchooay]

21 minutes ago, Classic Ray said:

How about teachers and other employed people, are they meant to take a day off work to go there every time they return from a weekend away?

No. The owner of the property reports. Not the teacher.

 

If in any doubt, get the owner,or assist the owner to set up an account online. Get him/her to give you the account username and password and report yourself. Easy.

[Sheryl]

The online system helps but it is still an unnecessary burden.

 

I own my own home (long term lease on the land, the house is mine) and have lived in it since 1997. I expect to continue living in it until I die unless something compels me to leave Thailand.

 

I have had to do at least 100 TM30s over the years and that is reporting only when returning from abroad...and does nto count the proof of address I submit everything I do an annual extension, the address I submit in each TM6 when re-entering the country, and address on 90 day reports.  So far my IO does not require it after travel within Thailand but any day now they may start doing that as well. In which case I will drastically change my lifestyle and decrease my spending in order to avoid triggering new report requirement for a simple shopping trip to Bangkok etc.

 

All this to keep telling TI that I still live where I have always lived.

 

I have no problem with keeping them aware of where I live,  But they should not need top be told it over and over again when it has not changed in over 20 years, just because I take a short trip.

 

Completely absurd.

[rkidlad]

Just now, Sheryl said:

The online system helps but it is still an unnecessary burden.

 

I own my own home (long term lease on the land, the house is mine) and have lived in it since 1997. I expect to continue living in it until I die unless something compels me to leave Thailand.

 

I have had to do at least 100 TM30s over the years and that is reporting only when returning from abroad...and does nto count the proof of address I submit everything I do an annual extension, the address I submit in each TM6 when re-entering the country, and address on 90 day reports.  So far my IO does not require it after travel within Thailand but any day now they may start doing that as well. In which case I will drastically change my lifestyle and decrease my spending in order to avoid triggering new report requirement for a simple shopping trip to Bangkok etc.

 

All this to keep telling TI that I still live where I have always lived.

 

I have no problem with keeping them aware of where I live,  But they should not need top be told it over and over again when it has not changed in over 20 years, just because I take a short trip.

 

Completely absurd.

Yes, some people seem to be more focused on whether or not it's easy to do. Let's not forget the most important part of all of this; It's a stupid and degrading law. 

[ChrisY1]

It appears to be a fightback of immigration against digital takeover.

Having a web site that simply fails to function almost all the time, now fining expats because their landlords fail to report is extraordinary...allowing Thais to fail their in responsibilities and then place the blame on the expats with a fine, is proof of revenue raising.

It will become very similar in many aspects of the RTP as digital technology and replacement of cash, takes over many of their functions.

[JamesBlond]

There is a law of the conservation of bureaucratic obstructionism. - Theodore Dalrymple

 

They are deliberately making it difficult and, with such a nationalist government, we need hardly wonder why.

By the way, the petition, in this light, was a mistake. 

 

They will get the online system working eventually, if only to ease their own administrative burden, but they are probably in no hurry. I suggest in the meantime that everyone should just keep quiet and carry on.