Delay Brexit? I'd rather be dead in a ditch, says PM Johnson

[Kinnock]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Don't forget there is a substantial number of Brits who still believe and support him. Strange, almost unbelievable, but true.

That's why the democratic system is a defective model.  Democracy only works if the electorate is educated.

[bangrak]

4 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Now there's an idea..........

I knew Boris could occasionally come out with sensible comments....

Can he be taken on his word? Na-ah, guess not...

[baboon]

41 minutes ago, vogie said:

Its not about you, most of the country support Boris as opposed to Corbyn.

Up to them. I don't. 

[bangrak]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

It's about the majority of the electorate that voted to leave, and I know its not about me, but as I am in the majority that voted to leave, it would be fair to say it is more about me than the poster you are trying to defend. And if you want to make stupid remarks about "new coats" that is entirely up to you, as senseless as they are.

Aah, those 'hard' Brexiteers and their lack of 'nuances'! In that consultative(!) referendum, wasn't it a majority of THE PARTICIPANTS, but NOT of THE ELECTORATE, which is the, quite larger, number of, citizens who had the right to participate...?  

[vogie]

Just now, baboon said:

Up to them. I don't. 

I didn't think for one minute you would baboon, but the constant attempt to dehumanise and demonize people that don't share the same values as yourselves does get somewhat jaded at times. The remainers have had a lifeline thrown to them and now many on the Brexit threads are now using it as an excuse to bait other posters.

[baboon]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

I didn't think for one minute you would baboon, but the constant attempt to dehumanise and demonize people that don't share the same values as yourselves does get somewhat jaded at times. The remainers have had a lifeline thrown to them and now many on the Brexit threads are now using it as an excuse to bait other posters.

Take that up with them, not me. And while you are at it, take a look at the post I initially replied to. Talk about dehumanising and demonising people who don't share the same values as others. And lacking the originality to even do so using their own words.

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Aah, those 'hard' Brexiteers and their lack of 'nuances'! In that consultative(!) referendum, wasn't it a majority of THE PARTICIPANTS, but NOT of THE ELECTORATE, which is the, quite larger, number of, citizens who had the right to participate...?  

Are you confused?

[Bluespunk]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson promised on Thursday he would never delay Britain's exit from the European Union, due on Oct. 31, saying he would rather be "dead in a ditch" than do so.

You no longer have any choice.

 

The no deal bill will see to that.

 

So unless you come up with something acceptable very quickly, ask you will.

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, baboon said:

Take that up with them, not me. And while you are at it, take a look at the post I initially replied to. Talk about dehumanising and demonising people who don't share the same values as others. And lacking the originality to even do so using their own words.

I was not taking it up with you, if you had read my words I said "remainers" 

[JAG]

5 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

Seriously, I had never even thought about the fact that London had a mayor. When I saw Boris (weird that he'd have a Russian name), I realized that it was just a ceremonial position and that he was a laughable clown to bring attention to the city for tourism purposes. Never crossed my mind that he was actually a real mayor or anything. The man was clearly a joke. Still is, but now the joke's on the Brits. Bummer.

The Mayor  of London is purely ceremonial? Perhaps you should  reassure your President and his twitter  driven administration  of that - they do seem to be taking the current  incumbent  rather seriously, and have devoted a lot of time effort and invective  to rubbishing his policies! 

 

If you  can contemplate looking at political  activity beyond the United States,  you would discover that  it is a simple  fact that Boris Johnson managed to be elected Mayor twice in succession,  in a City which had hitherto been a Labour fiefdom. Once may be dismissed  as a flash in the pan,  but twice does rather suggest some political  acumen and an appeal to the electorate  which goes beyond normal party loyalties. 

I really would caution against taking opinion on this forum,  or indeed within more conventional mainstream  media as a gospel indication of his standing with the people  of the UK. It may occur to you perhaps,  on reflection,  that the volume  of criticism may not be totally  unconnected  with the man's uncomfortable (for some) track record in confounding expectations and winning elections. 

 

I think it was Michael  Gove (when he was a journalist - he was a rather perceptive  commentator before he entered politics) who said of him: "They shouted " Boris you Tory <deleted>" after him as he cycled through the London traffic, but they went out  and voted for him when it came to the election. "

[dunroaming]

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

I didn't think for one minute you would baboon, but the constant attempt to dehumanise and demonize people that don't share the same values as yourselves does get somewhat jaded at times. The remainers have had a lifeline thrown to them and now many on the Brexit threads are now using it as an excuse to bait other posters.

I think we are all guilty of that.  TV has become the home of Brexit baiters from both camps at times.  It just highlights how bitter us Brits have become, attacking each other at every opportunity.

 

I would take issue with one point though.  Leavers and remainers come in many different shades with different opinions of what would be best for the country now. I say now because some people will have changed their mind from how they voted in 2016.  Some who voted remain will now feel that leaving would be better and some who voted leave will feel it would be better to stay in. 

 

Most of us have personal reasons for the way we voted and they were based on what was best for us and ours.  A general election will give an opportunity for people to make a better informed choice this time and with the benefit of hindsight, a rare thing these days. 

[dunroaming]

20 minutes ago, JAG said:

I think it was Michael  Gove (when he was a journalist - he was a rather perceptive  commentator before he entered politics) who said of him: "They shouted " Boris you Tory <deleted>" after him as he cycled through the London traffic, but they went out  and voted for him when it came to the election. "

It is often the case that people vote based on who the opponent is rather than the candidate who wins.  Livingstone was so hated in the end it was far more about people voting against him rather than for whoever was standing against him.  Having said that I think Johnson was a good Mayor at the time.

[7by7]

9 hours ago, z42 said:

As objectionable as Boris is I still feel that delays are futile as the EU won't negotiate reasonably.

A clean break is the only way as half measures will likely be far from beneficial to either side.

 

The EU, via Barnier and others, have said many times that whilst they'd prefer a deal, if the UK wants a no deal Brexit than that is what we will get.

 

They have also said many times that they are prepared to negotiate any and all proposals; but how can they when since he became PM Boris has not made any?

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I think we are all guilty of that.  TV has become the home of Brexit baiters from both camps at times.  It just highlights how bitter us Brits have become, attacking each other at every opportunity.

 

I would take issue with one point though.  Leavers and remainers come in many different shades with different opinions of what would be best for the country now. I say now because some people will have changed their mind from how they voted in 2016.  Some who voted remain will now feel that leaving would be better and some who voted leave will feel it would be better to stay in. 

 

Most of us have personal reasons for the way we voted and they were based on what was best for us and ours.  A general election will give an opportunity for people to make a better informed choice this time and with the benefit of hindsight, a rare thing these days. 

A well worded post DR as usual without a maggot or worm in sight.????

 

One issue I have though is that no matter how we look at things is that the majority of the electorate voted to leave, whether voters have changed their mind about leaving or remaining will always be open to debate. If and I emphasise 'if' people have changed their mind about leaving the EU, it is not because they have suddenly become born again europhiles, it is probably due to the reason that this duplicitious government is not acting in our countrys interest, but in the interest of the EU. 

This parliament could give Boris a Masterclass in lying.

 

 

[metisdead]

Troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

A post containing offensive comments has been reported and removed. 

 

 

Edit: An off topic trolling post using a trolling representation of Trump's name has been removed. 

[dunroaming]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

A well worded post DR as usual without a maggot or worm in sight.????

 

One issue I have though is that no matter how we look at things is that the majority of the electorate voted to leave, whether voters have changed their mind about leaving or remaining will always be open to debate. If and I emphasise 'if' people have changed their mind about leaving the EU, it is not because they have suddenly become born again europhiles, it is probably due to the reason that this duplicitious government is not acting in our countrys interest, but in the interest of the EU. 

This parliament could give Boris a Masterclass in lying.

 

 

I can understand that point of view.  Ironically after all this time of fighting against second referendums and polls and general elections, it is now Johnson who is desperate for one. What did he say yesterday...  "The people should decide!"  

[bangrak]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Are you confused?

How could I be, having detected your attempt to MISLEAD in your #64...? So don't worry for me, I'm very much used to that with the 'leave' side since the referendum campaign. But a vast number might go on(...!) falling for you guys' dirty tricks, and need to be warned every time one of you tries to twist, bend, misinterpret, ...lie.

[bangrak]

1 hour ago, Kinnock said:

That's why the democratic system is a defective model.  Democracy only works if the electorate is educated.

...and correctly informed. Allow me.

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I can understand that point of view.  Ironically after all this time of fighting against second referendums and polls and general elections, it is now Johnson who is desperate for one. What did he say yesterday...  "The people should decide!"  

Of course Boris is desperate for one just like Corbyn has been desperate for one for the last 3 years. Now Corbyn now being presented with an opportunity to have one, he has said no, why has he said no, one can only assume he knows he will not win and is scared. Parliament is not functioning, it is going nowhere and only a GE will sort out the impasse that we are at. Ignoring it is costing the country 1 billion pounds a month, Corbyn should not be putting of the inevitable.

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, bangrak said:

How could I be, having detected your attempt to MISLEAD in your #64...? So don't worry for me, I'm very much used to that with the 'leave' side since the referendum campaign. But a vast number might go on(...!) falling for you guys' dirty tricks, and need to be warned every time one of you tries to twist, bend, misinterpret, ...lie.

I am not going to start a bickering fest just to please you, nonsense posts deserve all the contempt they get. Goodbye.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

I think we are all guilty of that.  TV has become the home of Brexit baiters from both camps at times.  It just highlights how bitter us Brits have become, attacking each other at every opportunity.

 

I would take issue with one point though.  Leavers and remainers come in many different shades with different opinions of what would be best for the country now. I say now because some people will have changed their mind from how they voted in 2016.  Some who voted remain will now feel that leaving would be better and some who voted leave will feel it would be better to stay in. 

 

Most of us have personal reasons for the way we voted and they were based on what was best for us and ours.  A general election will give an opportunity for people to make a better informed choice this time and with the benefit of hindsight, a rare thing these days. 

 A well thought out and presented post.

 

But I do take issue with your final sentence.

 

Boris was interviewed by the BBC whilst on his Leeds walkabout yesterday and he kept on saying that a General Election would let the people decide.

 

But will it?

 

Whilst people often make protest votes in local elections, by elections and European Parliament elections, when it comes to a General Election most voters remain loyal to their chosen party; regardless. My own constituency is a prime example of this; we voted Remain but have a Brexiteer MP. I can guarantee that despite this in any GE he will win; the Tories could put a donkey up here, and it would win! Most constituencies are the same; safe seats. So in a GE the fate of the country would, as it always has, rest on the marginals.

 

In addition, there is also the probability that the Leave vote will be split between Leave candidates and the same for the Remain vote.

 

However, I do actually agree with Boris on his general point; the people should decide. It's how we make that decision I don't agree with. The way to give us that choice is simple; a final, legally binding referendum.

[Thairealist]

8 hours ago, robblok said:

Brilliant cartoon shows exactly how delusional Boris is. We all know what side will hurt the most and it is not the EU. However Boris seems to think otherwise. I wonder if he is really that stupid or just political show because he has too. Can't be sure. 

 

 Thank you for your opinion as a non Brit, who just happens to be a citizen of the E.U.

[Thairealist]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Don't forget there is a substantial number of Brits who still believe and support him. Strange, almost unbelievable, but true.

 

 

Correct, 17.4 million and increasing each and every day.

[7by7]

42 minutes ago, vogie said:

A well worded post DR as usual without a maggot or worm in sight.????

 

One issue I have though is that no matter how we look at things is that the majority of the electorate voted to leave, whether voters have changed their mind about leaving or remaining will always be open to debate. If and I emphasise 'if' people have changed their mind about leaving the EU, it is not because they have suddenly become born again europhiles, it is probably due to the reason that this duplicitious government is not acting in our countrys interest, but in the interest of the EU. 

This parliament could give Boris a Masterclass in lying.

 

 

 If people have changed their minds about leaving it is because they have become more aware of the consequences of leaving. Consequences Cummings and his political mouthpieces like Boris were very careful to hide or dismiss during the campaign. That is when they weren't telling porkies like that on Boris' bus!

 

If it had not been for Tory rebels like Rees-Mogg and his ERG putting their personal ambitions above the country's interests, we would have left the EU last March!

[Forethat]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 If people have changed their minds about leaving it is because they have become more aware of the consequences of leaving. Consequences Cummings and his political mouthpieces like Boris were very careful to hide or dismiss during the campaign. That is when they weren't telling porkies like that on Boris' bus!

 

If it had not been for Tory rebels like Rees-Mogg and his ERG putting their personal ambitions above the country's interests, we would have left the EU last March!

More super gonorrhea outbreaks, eeh..!? Or breadlines...? That's what I call proper arguments, no porkies there...

[7by7]

21 minutes ago, vogie said:

Of course Boris is desperate for one just like Corbyn has been desperate for one for the last 3 years. Now Corbyn now being presented with an opportunity to have one, he has said no, why has he said no, one can only assume he knows he will not win and is scared. Parliament is not functioning, it is going nowhere and only a GE will sort out the impasse that we are at. Ignoring it is costing the country 1 billion pounds a month, Corbyn should not be putting of the inevitable.

 Whilst I am no fan of Corbyn, he and others didn't say no to an election, they said no election until no deal is off the table.

 

The reason for doing that is simple; they don't trust Boris to stick to his 'election on October 15th' promise. Instead they expect him to renege on that and set the date for November, so he can take us out of the EU, deal or not, while Parliament is dissolved for the election.

 

Personally, I think they have a valid point! 

 

 

 

 

[Denim]

11 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

When all is said and done, I still prefer Boris to that Chlorinated chicken Corbyn

 

Talk about Hobsons choice ☹️

 

From a population of 67,000,000 we have narrowed it down to these two .

 

Poor old England.

[dunroaming]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

Of course Boris is desperate for one just like Corbyn has been desperate for one for the last 3 years. Now Corbyn now being presented with an opportunity to have one, he has said no, why has he said no, one can only assume he knows he will not win and is scared. Parliament is not functioning, it is going nowhere and only a GE will sort out the impasse that we are at. Ignoring it is costing the country 1 billion pounds a month, Corbyn should not be putting of the inevitable.

Not really.  Calling a snap election was Johnson's only chance of wrestling back control.  Tony Blair (yes I hate him too) identified, along with many others that it was a trap and although I think Corbyn would have fallen for it, those around him and those in other parties saw it for what it was.  So we will have a general election as soon as no-deal is safely put to bed.  But Boris won't decide when it is.  The only way forward for Labour is with a general election but even then I don't think they will win one with Corbyn at the helm. 

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, Forethat said:

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 If people have changed their minds about leaving it is because they have become more aware of the consequences of leaving. Consequences Cummings and his political mouthpieces like Boris were very careful to hide or dismiss during the campaign. That is when they weren't telling porkies like that on Boris' bus!

 

If it had not been for Tory rebels like Rees-Mogg and his ERG putting their personal ambitions above the country's interests, we would have left the EU last March!

More super gonorrhea outbreaks, eeh..!? Or breadlines...? That's what I call proper arguments, no porkies there...

 

I almost believed I may get a reasoned argument in response from a Brexiteer.

 

Should have known better.

[Thairealist]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

I think we are all guilty of that.  TV has become the home of Brexit baiters from both camps at times.  It just highlights how bitter us Brits have become, attacking each other at every opportunity.

 

I would take issue with one point though.  Leavers and remainers come in many different shades with different opinions of what would be best for the country now. I say now because some people will have changed their mind from how they voted in 2016.  Some who voted remain will now feel that leaving would be better and some who voted leave will feel it would be better to stay in. 

 

Most of us have personal reasons for the way we voted and they were based on what was best for us and ours.  A general election will give an opportunity for people to make a better informed choice this time and with the benefit of hindsight, a rare thing these days. 

 Agree with much of what you say, although I have to point out, that if those who had lost the people’s dDemocratic vote in 2016, had accepted and respected the result, then perhaps we would not be in the mess we now find ourselves in. 

 Your suggestion to give the British people an opportunity to go forward, by means of a G.E. Is all very fine and well. And that is what Corbyn has been asking for and advocating for the last 3 yrs, including 0n 50 occasion this very year. But will he and the Labour Party stand behind their demand, or will they chicken out.