Trump communication with foreign leader prompted whistleblower complaint -Washington Post

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 9/20/2019 at 9:55 AM, elmrfudd said:

"fake scandal"?????

 

what is "fake" about threatening to withhold a billion in aid unless you son's prosecutor is dismissed? That is recorded on video and he is bragging about it?

What's fake about it is that there is no good evidence that Viktor Shokin, the prosecutor in question, was investigating Burisma, the company Biden's son was involved with.

 

In fact, the complete opposite seems to be true. Various sources inside the Ukraine, including Shokin's deputy Vitaliy Kasko, say that there was no investigation going on into Burisma at the time.

 

Also, there was a widespread campaign both inside and outside the Ukraine for Shokin's removal as he seemed to be ignoring the corrupt practices that he was supposed to investigate. Many western governments (and the IMF) wanted Shokin removed for allowing corruption to flourish.

Edited September 21, 2019 by GroveHillWanderer

[Becker]

1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort (psychological stress) experienced by a person who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. This discomfort is triggered by a situation in which a person's belief clashes with new evidence perceived by the person.

Indeed, so he was obviously talking about himself.

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, Becker said:

Link:Trump pressured Ukraine's President to investigate Biden's son

 

Again Trumps has asked a foreign power to interfere in a US election. That's the very definition of treachery.

Yes. Enough already. Make it stop.

Quote

Trump has done plenty to warrant impeachment. But the Ukraine allegations are over the top.

Among the most delicate choices the framers made in drafting the Constitution was how to deal with a president who puts himself above the law. To address that problem, they chose the mechanism of impeachment and removal from office. And they provided that this remedy could be used when a president commits “Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-has-done-plenty-to-warrant-impeachment-but-the-ukraine-allegations-are-over-the-top/2019/09/20/51eff90c-dbf1-11e9-bfb1-849887369476_story.html

[candide]

3 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

What's fake about it is that there is no good evidence that Viktor Shokin, the prosecutor in question, was investigating Burisma, the company Biden's son was involved with.

 

In fact, the complete opposite seems to be true. Various sources inside the Ukraine, including Shokin's deputy Vitaliy Kasko, say that there was no investigation going on into Burisma at the time.

 

Also, there was a widespread campaign both inside and outside the Ukraine for Shokin's removal as he seemed to be ignoring the corrupt practices that he was supposed to investigate. Many western governments (and the IMF) wanted Shokin removed for allowing corruption to flourish.

Yep!

"The European Union has welcomed the dismissal of Ukraine’s scandal-ridden prosecutor general and called for a crackdown on corruption, even as the country’s political crisis deepened over efforts to form a new ruling coalition and appoint a new prime minister.

Ukraine’s parliament voted overwhelmingly to fire Viktor Shokin, ridding the beleaguered prosecutor’s office of a figure who is accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and stymying moves to root out graft."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190

 

[Jingthing]

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 6:49 PM, chokrai said:

You really are full of nonsense sometimes. I dont think I have seen a worse case of TDS. 

Yeah, really?

Here is the ULTIMATE reply to the charge of TDS by "trump" fans --

 

 

[Kelsall]

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah, really?

Here is the ULTIMATE reply to the charge of TDS by "trump" fans --

 

 

TDS big time.  Get over it.  There's another election in 2020 so vote against him then.  And when Trump wins again, another opportunity to get over it.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Kelsall

[bristolboy]

19 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

TDS big time.  Get over it.  There's another election in 2020 so vote against him then.  And when Trump wins again, another opportunity to get over it.

A good way to judge the intellectual quality of a post is to look for predictions. Apparently, there are posters who think predictions are a valid tool of debate.

[GalaxyMan]

The Moscow Mitch Senate is so corrupt that they wouldn't convict Trump of anything, no matter how much evidence there was. Like Trump himself said, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and nobody would care. We are well and truly <deleted>. ???? The election is the only really viable way of getting rid of that jerk.

[wayned]

10 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

On 9/20/2019 at 11:09 AM, riclag said:

 More conspiracy theories and lies. Mr. Trump was never found to conspire with the russians! Trolling 

Not True!  He was never investigated for collusion as it is not a crime.  He was investigated for "conspiracy to defraud the US government"  and it was found that there was insufficient evidence to charge him or any of the campaign staff with conspiracy, but they colluded with the Russians on a regular basis.  His son's meeting with the Russians was collusion but if you read the report Mueller did not charge him with conspiracy because he thought that he was too stupid to realize it.

 

Rudy's meetings and his phone call is definitely collusion, but is it against the law?  Unfortunately, even if it is who is going to bring charges against him?  The only way is to impeach him and try him in the Senate and we all know the outcome of that.  His dealings with the Ukraine are an example of collusion and possibly conspiracy so don't try to sweep it under the rug.

 

In the end, he knows this, and is doing it openly and is using it to be the "star" of the current news cycle.  And he is succeeding!!

[riclag]

1 hour ago, wayned said:

Not True!  He was never investigated for collusion as it is not a crime.  He was investigated for "conspiracy to defraud the US government"  and it was found that there was insufficient evidence to charge him or any of the campaign staff with conspiracy, but they colluded with the Russians on a regular basis.  His son's meeting with the Russians was collusion but if you read the report Mueller did not charge him with conspiracy because he thought that he was too stupid to realize it.

 

Rudy's meetings and his phone call is definitely collusion, but is it against the law?  Unfortunately, even if it is who is going to bring charges against him?  The only way is to impeach him and try him in the Senate and we all know the outcome of that.  His dealings with the Ukraine are an example of collusion and possibly conspiracy so don't try to sweep it under the rug.

 

In the end, he knows this, and is doing it openly and is using it to be the "star" of the current news cycle.  And he is succeeding!!

Dealings ,what dealings? who  knows the facts , someone said something about someone is  the sum total! The media and dems have for, what seems like the 20th time,finally have the golden coffin nail, that will surely result in   impeachment, cause according to them he contacted a foreign leader to have them rein in on corruption! We will learn more about biden who want's to be POTUS,than what was in a faceless ,unnamed bureaucrat interpretation of what a POTUS communication was.Much speculation as to executive privilege on whistle blowers and the office of the POTUS

Edited September 21, 2019 by riclag

[bendejo]

12 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

What's fake about it is that there is no good evidence that Viktor Shokin, the prosecutor in question, was investigating Burisma, the company Biden's son was involved with.

Well then, pass the info onto Congress and let the whole world see just how fake it is.  Clear all these accusations up once and for all and prove DT to be the hero he aspires to be.  But with no redacting nor bogus summaries this time.

Simple as that.

Same for Kavanaugh: welcome an FBI investigation into his character and prove he has nothing to hide.  The world will hail him as Clean Kavanaugh.

Simple as that.

 

But all this dodging, denial, phony cross-accusations, childish name-calling, hiding of information, and constantly diverting the discussion would lead any intelligent person, regardless of their political leaning, to think these guys are up to no good.  Unfortunately it seems most Republicans active in gov't have put their intelligence in cold storage.

 

DT probably got Moscow Mitch on his side by cutting him in for a piece of the action.  Wouldn't it be ironic if it is Mitch who goes down in flames for being a traitor while the guy who set it up for him goes untouched?  What of the US metals companies that are on the road to ruin thanks to this administration?   Check out the stock activity on US Steel (X) and Alcoa (AA) over the past 2 years -- why are the Russians (with McConnell's blessing) being allowed into the US for this?  What happened to protectionism?

 

 

[chokrai]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/intelligence-whistleblower-didnt-have-direct-knowledge-of-the-communications

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, chokrai said:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/intelligence-whistleblower-didnt-have-direct-knowledge-of-the-communications

Even if the washington examiner has it right, and that's a big "if", the fact is Trump didn't deny that he urged Zelensky to go after Hunter Biden.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Even if the washington examiner has it right, and that's a big "if", the fact is Trump didn't deny that he urged Zelensky to go after Hunter Biden.

He can't credibly deny that part because there is more than ample evidence of that on video even from the big mouth of "trump" himself. He can deny there was quid pro quo unless it can be proven somehow that there was. There is circumstantial evidence that there was but that will fall short of an impeachment level smoking gun.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Jingthing

[chokrai]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Even if the washington examiner has it right, and that's a big "if", the fact is Trump didn't deny that he urged Zelensky to go after Hunter Biden.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/20/politics/donald-trump-whistleblower/index.html

[GroveHillWanderer]

8 minutes ago, chokrai said:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/intelligence-whistleblower-didnt-have-direct-knowledge-of-the-communications

Whether the whistleblower had direct or indirect knowledge is entirely irrelevant to the underlying validity (or falsity) of the claims. The question is whether there is any truth to the allegations that Trump made an inappropriate promise to a foreign leader, not how some third party learned of them.

[chokrai]

Well lets find out about all of it,,,Biden will come off worse I'm sure. Which is what Trump planned all along.

[Jingthing]

Well lets find out about all of it,,,Biden will come off worse I'm sure. Which is what Trump planned all along.

No problem with that but if 45 did what it appears that he did in terms of a quid pro quo demand to Ukraine then he MUST be impeached regardless of what the senate quislings will do.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[chokrai]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No problem with that but if 45 did what it appears that he did in terms of a quid pro quo demand to Ukraine then he MUST be impeached regardless of what the senate quislings will do.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

If it is impeachable then I am sure the Dems will.

 

[Jingthing]

If it is impeachable then I am sure the Dems will.
 

The white house is obstructing congress so they need to see the evidence first. Duh.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[chokrai]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

The white house is obstructing congress so they need to see the evidence first. Duh.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

So let them try.

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

 

2. cleverly trump lanced the ukraine story only to have blunder and gaff star biden facing new scrutiny over his ukraine innvolvement during his vice presidency. didnt biden demand that a ukrainian prosecutor to be fired, who invastigated his son ????

 

No, he didn't. That investigator was not only not investigating his son or his son's employer, he pretty much wasn't investigating anybody important over issues of corruption. 

Timeline in Ukraine Probe Casts Doubt on Giuliani’s Biden Claim

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-07/timeline-in-ukraine-probe-casts-doubt-on-giuliani-s-biden-claim

[bristolboy]

Trump Claims Media Ignoring Biden-Ukraine, Tweets Video of Journalists Covering the Story

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/trump-tweets-video-media-covering-biden-ukraine-story.html

[Jingthing]

So let them try.

They are. It isn't easy. If the stuff they are hiding isn't damaging what's their problem?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, chokrai said:

If it is impeachable then I am sure the Dems will.

 

If, as is suggested, there are tapes/transcripts to Trump attempting to engage a foreign power(s) in corrupting the 2020 election, the least problem on Trump's mind will be impeachment. 

 

As I have said for a long while now, Trump needs to focus on prison reform. 

[metisdead]

Some off topic trolling posts and bickering replies have been removed. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

2 hours ago, chokrai said:

Well lets find out about all of it,,,Biden will come off worse I'm sure. Which is what Trump planned all along.

I've no idea how you figure that. You're talking as if this is some previously unknown revelation about Biden where all the facts have not come out yet.

 

The facts about Biden's involvement with the Ukraine in this matter are years old, have already been widely investigated and reported on, and are available in the public domain. There is no evidence that his pressure for the removal of Ukrainian prosecutor Viktor Shokin had anything to do with Hunter Biden, not least because Shokin was not investigating Burisma (the company the younger Biden worked for).

 

On the other hand, the full facts about Trump's phone call(s) with the Ukrainian president are not known yet, because the White House and the DoJ have been stonewalling on releasing the evidence.

[AussieBob18]

The Ukraine call is a nothing burger fake news - just like the Russian interference.

3 years now and the liberals still cant accept it - Hillary lost and Trump is President - get over it.

 

 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

The Ukraine call is a nothing burger fake news - just like the Russian interference.

3 years now and the liberals still cant accept it - Hillary lost and Trump is President - get over it.

 

 

 

Other than in Trump supporters' imaginations and narrative, the Russian interference was neither a "nothing burger", nor "fake news".

[Chomper Higgot]

36 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

The Ukraine call is a nothing burger fake news - just like the Russian interference.

3 years now and the liberals still cant accept it - Hillary lost and Trump is President - get over it.

 

 

The Mueller report lists crimes committed by Trump which are not indictable while he is in office.

 

Guess what happens when he leaves office?