Problem registering child's birth

[pjrob]

I am trying to register my new baby daughter's birth. We have been told that we cannot give her the middle name we had chosen as 'someone in Thailand already has that middle name'. This is distressing for me as my intention was to continue my family tradition and name my daughter after her grandmother. Now being told by someone in an office that I can't do that. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing and can something be done about it? I did call the 1111 information line and they actually confirmed that this, seemingly insane law, does exist.

[transam]

Crazy stuff in the land of crazy stuff....????

[olivierf20]

If this is the land of crazy stuff, i wonder why you stay... so many people keep trashing Thailand in this forum, i find it disrespectful, for a country we are guests in, if you do not like it here, well just leave...

[transam]

3 minutes ago, olivierf20 said:

If this is the land of crazy stuff, i wonder why you stay... so many people keep trashing Thailand in this forum, i find it disrespectful, for a country we are guests in, if you do not like it here, well just leave...

Come on Mr.Waialot, this is an English language forum where we discuss things, whether observations, daft stuff, etc.

Now, back on topic, do you have a middle name....?

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, pjrob said:

I am trying to register my new baby daughter's birth. We have been told that we cannot give her the middle name we had chosen as 'someone in Thailand already has that middle name'.

 

Can you make a subtle spelling adjustment to the middle name?

 

Retain the tradition, keep the Thai authorities happy.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, pjrob said:

This is distressing for me as my intention was to continue my family tradition and name my daughter after her grandmother.

If it's a foreign grandmother, just make sure the middle name is spelled correctly in Roman script on the foreign passport, let them spell it how they like in Thai script.

Edited September 27, 2019 by BritManToo

[Samuel Smith]

'someone in Thailand already has that middle name'

 

So everyone in Thailand has a unique middle name?

[pjrob]

38 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

'someone in Thailand already has that middle name'

 

So everyone in Thailand has a unique middle name?

Most Thai people dont have a middle name. I think this is part of the problem, they dont get what it is.

[pjrob]

56 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If it's a foreign grandmother, just make sure the middle name is spelled correctly in Roman script on the foreign passport, let them spell it how they like in Thai script.

Thanks but my son's name is written in English on his Thai passport so im not sure if we could do that.

[chickenslegs]

1 hour ago, pjrob said:

Most Thai people dont have a middle name. I think this is part of the problem, they dont get what it is.

We had a similar problem when trying to get the hospital to register our granddaughter's name. We were told that foreign names were not allowed as middle names.

 

We went to the ampur office and spoke to a supervisor, who accepted the middle name (connected to my family) and said that the hospital was wrong.

 

We were told that the only barred names were those of royalty, or foreign names that translated to rude words in Thai.

[pjrob]

2 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

We had a similar problem when trying to get the hospital to register our granddaughter's name. We were told that foreign names were not allowed as middle names.

 

We went to the ampur office and spoke to a supervisor, who accepted the middle name (connected to my family) and said that the hospital was wrong.

 

We were told that the only barred names were those of royalty, or foreign names that translated to rude words in Thai.

Well, that's interesting! As per usual conflicting info from authorities in Thailand. I will go to the office in person with my wife next week. Thanks very much for the tip ????

[LukKrueng]

Thai people don't have middle names, so I guess they considered the middle name as a family name. Family names in Thailand are unique (no generic names such as Smith and others) and there are only 2 ways one can get into an existing family name: 1 - by birth, and 2 - when a woman gets married.

You could try writing the name differently in Thai (have same sound but spelt differently) and that might work, as long as chickenlegs said it's not spelt as a name of a royal and it doesn't have bad meaning in Thai.

[bfc1980]

My daughter was born in Bangkok and we registered her with 2 middle names without any problem. I think you need to stand your ground and insist on it. 

[HTC]

It does depend on the ampur and also the hospital if they have the service where they can produce birth certificates.

 

I was unable to register a middle name for my son at a Bangkok hospital in March this year.

 

What some people do is write two names in the fore name box separated with a space.

 

Interestingly there is a trend with Thai actors and actresses to give their Thai children a middle name out of the normal tradition. They seem to manage it ... probably with some tea money involved.

[HTC]

Just to add, it is normal not possible in government hospitals, but possible in private hospitals as they have been set up for forgiener births for quite some time.

 

I know that both Samitiveg and Bumrungrad hospitals can do carts with three names without issue.

[BritManToo]

21 minutes ago, HTC said:

Just to add, it is normal not possible in government hospitals, but possible in private hospitals as they have been set up for forgiener births for quite some time.

Hospitals don't issue birth certificates.

Why not just go to the Amphur Office with all the Thai guys whose women gave birth that day.

That's what I did with about 20 Thai guys, no name BS at all, stand in line, fill out the form in Thai, pay your 30bht.

Edited September 28, 2019 by BritManToo

[sead]

Possible to register first in your home country. Then they have to accept it here

[BritManToo]

25 minutes ago, sead said:

Possible to register first in your home country. Then they have to accept it here

Not if you're a Brit, it appears they no longer register foreign births.

[khunPer]

On 9/27/2019 at 11:37 AM, chickenslegs said:

We had a similar problem when trying to get the hospital to register our granddaughter's name. We were told that foreign names were not allowed as middle names.

 

We went to the ampur office and spoke to a supervisor, who accepted the middle name (connected to my family) and said that the hospital was wrong.

 

We were told that the only barred names were those of royalty, or foreign names that translated to rude words in Thai.

To my knowledge – but it might have changed since – foreign first name are not allowed. The authorities used to have a huge book, or folder, with not allowed foreign first names. Both the hospital, and the local district office, were very skeptical with the name chosen for my daughter – however part of it only – but the couldn't find exactly the same sound in the forbidden book.

 

It's correct with Thai royal names, which I to my surprise learned from reading about the latest royal marriage.

 

Family names are supposed to be unique to each family, I read in a book about Thai culture. Originally, when beginning a name registration began, the families had to choose two unique syllables for their name, and when they were all used up, they should choose three unique syllables, and finally four. From the number of syllables in a family name, you could know hos old the family is in Thailand, i.e. migrant families might have three syllables, and many Chinese migrants has four syllables in their family name, which could also be caused by some of the Chinese rice-merchants registered late as Thai citizens.

 

Our daughter has my family name – I'm not married to the mother, she's my girlfriend – and after Thai tradition a child can have the father's name. The inherited family name is not checked.

To OP @pjrob:

Middle names are not common among Thais, so might be that a (new) middle name is considered just like a (new) family name.

 

As @BritManToo suggested, you could use a Thai litteration of the roman characters that is enough different from the already registered middle name. I mention this, as my daughter's name was spelled little wrong in Thai characters on her birth certificate, but correctly spelled in roman letters, as we translated ourselves to an English version of her birth certificate, had it authorized by a registered translator, and legalized by the Thai Foreign Office. Thereby her name in roman letters in passports and on ID-card was correct.

 

Thais can fairly easily change their names later, we had our daughter's name changed later to correct Thai spelling.

[Skallywag]

On 9/27/2019 at 12:39 PM, pjrob said:

my intention was to continue my family tradition and name my daughter after her grandmother

Sorry but it is "our"daughter, not my.  There are 2 grandmothers now.  Maybe time to start your own "tradition"

Think outside that box, kinda like when you took a thai bride.  Doubt that was a "family tradition"  haha

Good luck, stay fit, and have fun raising family

[naboo]

On 9/27/2019 at 3:24 PM, pjrob said:

Thanks but my son's name is written in English on his Thai passport so im not sure if we could do that.

I made an error on my daughter's birth certificate (really people, go to the Amphur office and do it yourself, its easy) and had to do a name change to correct it.

 

To simplify matters, I then got her British passport sorted and told the translator of the birth certificate to spell the name in English as I wanted it. British passport sorted, I took it to the Thai passport office when applying for her Thai passport and showed the British passport which they were happy to copy the spelling of.

[pjrob]

On 9/28/2019 at 2:55 PM, HTC said:

Just to add, it is normal not possible in government hospitals, but possible in private hospitals as they have been set up for forgiener births for quite some time.

 

I know that both Samitiveg and Bumrungrad hospitals can do carts with three names without issue.

 

[pjrob]

On 9/28/2019 at 2:55 PM, HTC said:

Just to add, it is normal not possible in government hospitals, but possible in private hospitals as they have been set up for forgiener births for quite some time.

 

I know that both Samitiveg and Bumrungrad hospitals can do carts with three names without issue.

I think that is right. My son was born in a private hospital, no problems. But daughter born in a Government hospital...

[pjrob]

Thanks to everyone who replied. We will have a go at going to the office in person. Failing that try the spelling thing.

[kwonitoy]

On 9/28/2019 at 3:16 PM, BritManToo said:

Hospitals don't issue birth certificates.

Why not just go to the Amphur Office with all the Thai guys whose women gave birth that day.

That's what I did with about 20 Thai guys, no name BS at all, stand in line, fill out the form in Thai, pay your 30bht.

Aek Udon Hospital in Udon Thani issued a Thai and English one for my son, 8 years ago.

[blackcab]

It is important to note that within Thailand it is the District Office that issues birth certificates, and not hospitals. Even if some large government hospitals have a section that can issue a birth certificate for the sake of convenience, the staff who do this are District Office staff and not hospital staff.

 

Samitivej and Bumrungrad do not issue birth certificates at all. Instead they ask the parents to fill out an application form. Parents also provide copies of their ID cards, passports, etc. The hospital staff then take these documents to the District Office and register the birth on behalf of the parents.

 

Should the parents choose to do so, they can go to the District Office and register the birth themselves. This isn't such a big thing as someone will have to attend the District Office within 15 days to register the child in a Tabien Baan. If you register the birth yourself you can register the child in the Tabien Baan immediately afterwards.

 

My daughter was born at Samitivej. She has a middle name, and it was absolutely no problem whatsoever. I don't know if she is the only Thai person with this middle name though.

 

Did the OP talk to hospital staff or the officer at the District Office?

[pjrob]

17 hours ago, blackcab said:

It is important to note that within Thailand it is the District Office that issues birth certificates, and not hospitals. Even if some large government hospitals have a section that can issue a birth certificate for the sake of convenience, the staff who do this are District Office staff and not hospital staff.

 

Samitivej and Bumrungrad do not issue birth certificates at all. Instead they ask the parents to fill out an application form. Parents also provide copies of their ID cards, passports, etc. The hospital staff then take these documents to the District Office and register the birth on behalf of the parents.

 

Should the parents choose to do so, they can go to the District Office and register the birth themselves. This isn't such a big thing as someone will have to attend the District Office within 15 days to register the child in a Tabien Baan. If you register the birth yourself you can register the child in the Tabien Baan immediately afterwards.

 

My daughter was born at Samitivej. She has a middle name, and it was absolutely no problem whatsoever. I don't know if she is the only Thai person with this middle name though.

 

Did the OP talk to hospital staff or the officer at the District Office?

We are currently dealing with someone at the office. Would you suggest going down there in person?

[blackcab]

Which office? An office at the hospital or the District Office?

[Tayaout]

My son has a Thai first name, foreign very common middle name and composed family name (mine). I think the employee are confused and you need to talk to someone else. 

[pjrob]

21 hours ago, blackcab said:

Which office? An office at the hospital or the District Office?

The district office in Phasi Charoen