How is the standard of medical care so high?

[Hal65]

Thailand isn't known for its strong tech industry. I also hear mostly negative things regarding its education system. Indeed, the few university grads I've met from top BKK universities did not feel comparable to even graduates of ordinary Western colleges.

 

Why is the medical industry so different? Especially compared to other options such as the Philippines?

[Pilotman]

It isn't. 

[IraqRon]

after stays in private and govt. hospitals I would agree wholeheartedly.  Just because some charge a great deal more than others doesn't ensure the care is better.  I shake my head when some posters say that they chose Tland because the care is "so great".  

 

As an limited example, a good friend who wanted lasik surgery did research and found that the bkk hospital so revered by some on here were the best, great equipment etc. for this, however the job was botched and his eyes were so damaged that he killed himself in misery over the pain.

He later, before suicide. found that the machine used had not been calibrated in years and filed a complaint for this to no avail.  So sad as he was a very upbeat positive person before this.

 

 

 

[Saltire]

I used to believe that Thailand was the place to go for treatments till I had to do so. I lived in Cambodia so it was seen as a much better option (definitely true even now). After 2 MRI scans one in the 'best' hospital in Chiang Mai and one in the 'famous' Bangkok hospital, no one could diagnose my spinal issue. This did not stop one of them trying to sell me a fusion procedure of costing $50k USD which I declined.

 

3 months later I completely resolved the condition (sciatica) with 7 acupuncture sessions in Cambodia by a Swiss practitioner at a total cost of about $200 and have been pain-free for 5 years.

 

In future I will put more effort into researching consultants as opposed to hospitals and their facilities.

[Pilotman]

16 minutes ago, IraqRon said:

after stays in private and govt. hospitals I would agree wholeheartedly.  Just because some charge a great deal more than others doesn't ensure the care is better.  I shake my head when some posters say that they chose Tland because the care is "so great".  

 

As an limited example, a good friend who wanted lasik surgery did research and found that the bkk hospital so revered by some on here were the best, great equipment etc. for this, however the job was botched and his eyes were so damaged that he killed himself in misery over the pain.

He later, before suicide. found that the machine used had not been calibrated in years and filed a complaint for this to no avail.  So sad as he was a very upbeat positive person before this.

 

 

 

What a very sad story.  Personally, I wouldn't trust the vast majority of medical staff here as far as I could throw them. 

[cmarshall]

I have never seen data on the effectiveness or safety of Thai medical care.  On the other hand, I have read of a wide scale study evaluating the standard of care in the US which found that 40% of treatments were sub-standard.  Another US statistical study found that the number of deaths in US hospitals due to treatment errors to be much higher than previously estimated at around 400,000 per year.  The WHO rates Thailand as # 47 with the US at # 37 and France at # 1.

[NaamGin]

If you come from a country where medical care is substandard or a country with socialized medicine where you have to wait weeks or months to see a specialist, then Thailand is s step up in availability and quality. Thailand has been a haven for medical tourism for decades, so this drives up the quality of doctors in popular specialties as this is where the money is. Yes, there are some hacks out there that should not be practicing medicine, but there are some very good doctors too. Checking a doctor's credentials is important also to see where they were trained and where they did their residency.

[Pravda]

Lol

 

If you convert Hilton into a hospital and put the same crappy doctors inside does that mean the hospital care is great? 

[HLover]

2 minutes ago, Pravda said:

Lol

 

If you convert Hilton into a hospital and put the same crappy doctors inside does that mean the hospital care is great? 

Where are the crappy doctors?  I've had good luck with them.

[Puchaiyank]

The real question...the elephant in the room...if medical care in Thailand is mediocre at best...where do they get the gall to charge farangs multiples of what they charge Thais for the same mediocre procedure...?

 

Farangs are being used and abused IMHO...

[uhuh]

OP asks: "Why is the medical industry so different? Especially compared to other options such as the Philippines?"

 

The Philippines are much poorer. And you can get very decent medical care in the Philippines,  at prices that are not as inflated as in Thailand (where private medical care is much more expensive than in Western Europe, as read in many posts).

Other South-east Asian countries are mostly much less developed than Thailand (Vietnam, Cambodia,  Indonesia) or more developed (Malaysia,  Singapore), so not really comparable. 

In comparable middle-income countries in South America you are able to find the same levels of care as in Thailand (but even more expensive).

I am not talking about care for the general population. 

 

"Why is the medical industry so different?" Because in medicine,  beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. Many patients strongly believe in doctors,  procedures and whole medical fields that are useless,  if not harmful. To heal a patient,  the patient must believe in his doctor.  Whereas a car will move whether the driver believes in it or not. 

Thailand, the kingdom of make-believe, is uniquely positioned to sell medical services.  Many, many patients confuse beautiful exteriors of a hospital with top-notch medicine (another poster mentioned those beautiful nurses in Bangkok Trat Hospital).

 

 

[wisperone]

9 hours ago, IraqRon said:

after stays in private and govt. hospitals I would agree wholeheartedly.  Just because some charge a great deal more than others doesn't ensure the care is better.  I shake my head when some posters say that they chose Tland because the care is "so great".  

 

As an limited example, a good friend who wanted lasik surgery did research and found that the bkk hospital so revered by some on here were the best, great equipment etc. for this, however the job was botched and his eyes were so damaged that he killed himself in misery over the pain.

He later, before suicide. found that the machine used had not been calibrated in years and filed a complaint for this to no avail.  So sad as he was a very upbeat positive person before this.

Don't go to 3rd world countries for medical care.

[wisperone]

8 hours ago, Saltire said:

I used to believe that Thailand was the place to go for treatments till I had to do so. I lived in Cambodia so it was seen as a much better option (definitely true even now). After 2 MRI scans one in the 'best' hospital in Chiang Mai and one in the 'famous' Bangkok hospital, no one could diagnose my spinal issue. This did not stop one of them trying to sell me a fusion procedure of costing $50k USD which I declined.

 

3 months later I completely resolved the condition (sciatica) with 7 acupuncture sessions in Cambodia by a Swiss practitioner at a total cost of about $200 and have been pain-free for 5 years.

 

In future I will put more effort into researching consultants as opposed to hospitals and their facilities.

Good for you for turning that down...since they didn't diagnose you correctly, they probably would have botched the operation also...backs are nothing to take lightly.

[wisperone]

9 hours ago, cmarshall said:

I have never seen data on the effectiveness or safety of Thai medical care.  On the other hand, I have read of a wide scale study evaluating the standard of care in the US which found that 40% of treatments were sub-standard.  Another US statistical study found that the number of deaths in US hospitals due to treatment errors to be much higher than previously estimated at around 400,000 per year.  The WHO rates Thailand as # 47 with the US at # 37 and France at # 1.

Even in the US, try and opt for big city hospitals if you have the chance, insurance, etc. The local hospital care would scare me.

[wisperone]

8 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

The real question...the elephant in the room...if medical care in Thailand is mediocre at best...where do they get the gall to charge farangs multiples of what they charge Thais for the same mediocre procedure...?

 

Farangs are being used and abused IMHO...

I guess it still is probably cheaper than 1st world country care. As long as there are people willing to pay, they will keep pushing the envelope.

[Pilotman]

17 hours ago, NaamGin said:

If you come from a country where medical care is substandard or a country with socialized medicine where you have to wait weeks or months to see a specialist, then Thailand is s step up in availability and quality. Thailand has been a haven for medical tourism for decades, so this drives up the quality of doctors in popular specialties as this is where the money is. Yes, there are some hacks out there that should not be practicing medicine, but there are some very good doctors too. Checking a doctor's credentials is important also to see where they were trained and where they did their residency.

Remember, they are no such things as 'Specialist Associations' here, such as the UK's Royal Colleges, or similar standards setting bodies in the US.  Doctors here self teach to become so called specialists.  Very few get a western training and qualification so the word 'specialist' is misleading and largely meaningless here. 

[Saltire]

8 hours ago, wisperone said:

Good for you for turning that down...since they didn't diagnose you correctly, they probably would have botched the operation also...backs are nothing to take lightly.

My thoughts at the time exactly. I had visions of being discharged in a permanent wheelchair.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Saltire

[Moonlover]

18 hours ago, Saltire said:

I used to believe that Thailand was the place to go for treatments till I had to do so. I lived in Cambodia so it was seen as a much better option (definitely true even now). After 2 MRI scans one in the 'best' hospital in Chiang Mai and one in the 'famous' Bangkok hospital, no one could diagnose my spinal issue. This did not stop one of them trying to sell me a fusion procedure of costing $50k USD which I declined.

 

3 months later I completely resolved the condition (sciatica) with 7 acupuncture sessions in Cambodia by a Swiss practitioner at a total cost of about $200 and have been pain-free for 5 years.

 

In future I will put more effort into researching consultants as opposed to hospitals and their facilities.

This is a very encouraging story. I had very severe back pain and sciatica some 20 years ago and there was nothing that western treatments could do to bring relief. I eventually fixed myself by using a sequence of exercises derived from Traditional Chinese Medicine.

 

I have since studied TCM in depth, including the practice of Qi Gong from where the exercises originated. I now use what I've learned to deal with any medical problems that arise and  will only visit a hospital or clinic as a very last resort. And that is a very rare occurrence indeed.

 

And I am pleased and proud to say that I'm a fit and healthy 73 year old and plan to stay that way by my own efforts.

[Saltire]

4 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

This is a very encouraging story. I had very severe back pain and sciatica some 20 years ago and there was nothing that western treatments could do to bring relief. I eventually fixed myself by using a sequence of exercises derived from Traditional Chinese Medicine.

 

I have since studied TCM in depth, including the practice of Qi Gong from where the exercises originated. I now use what I've learned to deal with any medical problems that arise and  will only visit a hospital or clinic as a very last resort. And that is a very rare occurrence indeed.

 

And I am pleased and proud to say that I'm a fit and healthy 73 year old and plan to stay that way by my own efforts.

Coicidence here. At the same time I was undergoing the acupuncture I also hired a friend who taught Qi Gong amongst other things, to give me one hour of exercises each morning for a month. I don't know (and don't really care!) which was the best remedy but the combination worked. I was VERY skeptical then. I grasped right away though that the acupuncture was going to work, as when the girl put in the needles in my hip and buttock, I could feel the reaction way down in my feet. 

 

I still do several of the exercises each morning. Takes 15 minutes, so not a big problem. Hope your good health continues.

 

On another note, again due to not really having anywhere to get regular, accurate medical advice, 2 years ago I changed to a keto lifestyle, another transformation which even now very few 'western' doctors promoting. Also stopped several of my meds. I know it's risk self diagnosing and self healing but it's also risky walking through the door of a hospital.

[Nyezhov]

18 hours ago, HLover said:

Where are the crappy doctors?  I've had good luck with them.

Yes, me too. Especially the ones educated or trained in the USA, which is the cutting edge of medical education and research.

 

If you beleive in real medicine, not fads promoted on the internet, you can get great medical care here.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Nyezhov

[BestB]

Look at the bio of top surgeons in private hospitals . All have masters or internship from some western country. Many have accreditation’s from western uni’s also. 
 

if you just go to local clinic , then it’s a different story, in my experience you get a handful of pills in different colours to cure any illness .

 

i got a bandaid for a broken finger and some antibiotic , note not anti inflammation but antibiotic 

 

why do you think private hospitals are so expansive ?????

[Sheryl]

Remember, they are no such things as 'Specialist Associations' here, such as the UK's Royal Colleges, or similar standards setting bodies in the US.  Doctors here self teach to become so called specialists.  Very few get a western training and qualification so the word 'specialist' is misleading and largely meaningless here. 

This is incorrect.

 

There is a board certification process for specialties in Thailand just as in Western countries.

 

And many specialusts train in the West, especially those based in Bangkok.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Saltire said:

Coicidence here. At the same time I was undergoing the acupuncture I also hired a friend who taught Qi Gong amongst other things, to give me one hour of exercises each morning for a month. I don't know (and don't really care!) which was the best remedy but the combination worked. I was VERY skeptical then. I grasped right away though that the acupuncture was going to work, as when the girl put in the needles in my hip and buttock, I could feel the reaction way down in my feet. 

 

I still do several of the exercises each morning. Takes 15 minutes, so not a big problem. Hope your good health continues.

 

On another note, again due to not really having anywhere to get regular, accurate medical advice, 2 years ago I changed to a keto lifestyle, another transformation which even now very few 'western' doctors promoting. Also stopped several of my meds. I know it's risk self diagnosing and self healing but it's also risky walking through the door of a hospital.

How does that saying go? 'Great minds think alike'. ????

 

It often dismays me, (though I tend to say little) when I read of members here going to their hospital or doctor's office for every perceived or real ailment. They then accept, without question the meds that are prescribed. Thais are even worse for this of course. I know of one case were a doctor prescribed eye drops for an ear problem! (or maybe the pharmacy got it wrong) And it was accepted without question.

 

I always seek a natural fix first. Not only is it a lot cheaper, it garners much more interest in ones self. In how the body and the mind work and interact with each other. And it is hugely satisfying to be able to say 'Yes, I fixed it and I did it myself'.

[NaamGin]

3 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Remember, they are no such things as 'Specialist Associations' here, such as the UK's Royal Colleges, or similar standards setting bodies in the US.  Doctors here self teach to become so called specialists.  Very few get a western training and qualification so the word 'specialist' is misleading and largely meaningless here. 

Which is why I stated that it is important to know where a physician was trained and where they did their residency. If a doctor claims to be a specialist in a certain medical field and they did not do their residency in the US or the EU, I avoid them. 

 

[sead]

Thai school system doesn't allow failures. So 99% pass even if you would fail. And if you fail then you do retest. If you fail retest then money talks.Now you go figur

[mfd101]

My almost-extensive experience of DENTAL treatment in BKK is that it's better than in Oz and around half- to two-thirds the price (caps, wisdom removal for my b/f, fillings ... ).

 

Because they are organized (in BKK) in clinics with several dentists, each one specializing in a particular area, you get in my experience a more professional job done than you would get in a one-dentist suburban practice in Oz.

 

Several of my Canberra friends continue, as they have for many years, to save up their dental jobs-to-do, then fly off to BKK for a week or 2. If they're a couple, the difference in dental price just about pays for the air fare & hotel.

[Isaanbiker]

21 hours ago, HLover said:

Where are the crappy doctors?  I've had good luck with them.

I've had a very bad one who tried to fix my four times broken leg with a plate.

 

 Even I could see on the X-rays that the Tibia head was in no way as it should be.

 

  Instead of sending me to a hospital in a neighboring province where they do complicated fractures and even artificial knee joints, he thought he could do it.

 

Unfortunately, he couldn't. 

 

I'm not the only one who's a victim of a guy who calls himself an orthopedist who didn't want to lose face by sending me to another doctor. 

 

   I'd think that's a crappy doctor, don;'t you agree? 

 

  

  

[Isaanbiker]

19 minutes ago, sead said:

Thai school system doesn't allow failures. So 99% pass even if you would fail. And if you fail then you do retest. If you fail retest then money talks.Now you go figur

 Or you do an Immersion English camp on one weekend for grade 12 students who failed in English and they'll pass.

 

Many Thai teachers seem to believe that students learn through testing and homework is usually to 98 % + copied. 

 

  Nothing is impossible. 

[Pilotman]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This is incorrect.

There is a board certification process for dpecialties in Thailand just as in Western countries.

And many specialusts train in the West, especially those based in Bangkok.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Sheryl, I respect your obvious knowledge and  expertise in this area, but Bangkok is not Thailand and the vast majority of the 'specialists' calling themselves such and operating in this country are not so trained and experienced, nor checked for their standards of care. The internet is full of reports and facts about the Thai medical training system and the level of general expertise, and otherwise, of their doctors. Rural medical provision here is generally a disgrace and an embarrassment to the country and a failure to the people they treat.  The reckless medicine prescribing and over testing (where patients must pay and under testing where they can't pay) throughout the country is proof of this, if one were needed. 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Isaanbiker said:

I've had a very bad one who tried to fix my four times broken leg with a plate.

 

 Even I could see on the X-rays that the Tibia head was in no way as it should be.

 

  Instead of sending me to a hospital in a neighboring province where they do complicated fractures and even artificial knee joints, he thought he could do it.

 

Unfortunately, he couldn't. 

 

I'm not the only one who's a victim of a guy who calls himself an orthopedist who didn't want to lose face by sending me to another doctor. 

 

   I'd think that's a crappy doctor, don;'t you agree? 

 

  

  

We can all quote, either indirectly or from direct experience, good treatment and bad treatment anywhere in the world.

 

As a direct follow on @Isaanbiker's experience I can report some excellent surgery carried out on my double fracture (tibia and fibula) in Udon Thani, which also included plate insertion. (still there 4 years on)

 

There were some shortcomings in other aspects of the treatment, (the physiotherapy was rubbish, I knew more than she did) but the surgery was 1st class.

 

In short, it's impossible to judge a country's medical service from one isolated incident.