1 hour ago, farmerjo said:

Well it would be all the associated costs of not using Paraquat in this particular case.

All different crops will have different associated costs depending on the chemical used.

This is something that has been done all over the world. I am very sure that they can manage to survive here too. There will not be that much difference. I do think that they are afraid of morw work though, and try to use deadly chemicals out of lazyness.

Paraquat has never been officially linked to cancers but as an incredibly toxic chemical has been clearly recognized as a significant  cause of  death by deliberate or accidental poisoning.

As a cheap and readily available poison it is that  most  common agent used in suicide in Asia.

The most significant medical link on a more subtle scale  as mentioned is to Parkinsons .

Environmental impact is  variable  due to soil variables and  the rate of degradation by microbiological agents that also vary in soil content but have been studied to effectively significantly reduce  residues.

The primary  cause of call to  ban Paraquat globally is due  mainly to the  human death rate by direct ingestion rather than exposure from intended responsible use  as a herbicide.

Glyphosate in original formulation was  much less toxic then recent concoctions due to the addition of  highly carcinogenic agents intended to increase absorbtion rates to offset growing weed resistance.

Environmentally it is a nightmare that lingers!

Chlorpyrifos is another well established  medical nightmare  chemical that has had variable and inconsistent risk recognition around the world and remains commonly used in agriculture but has been banned from residential products. Despite that people with children should  check out the active ingredients of any product to treat cats and dogs for fleas !

What I find strange is the lack of attention to 2 4 D which  is also commonly available in Thailand and also prolifically used on crops. Despite (apparently) that it no longer has dioxin in it it is another crop chemical  subject to a lot of doubts.

 

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

No they would prefer to go on poisoning the whole country. Farmers will only change if forced. You are a perfect example why I am not a big friend of farmers. They moan too much to stuck in their ways and rather kill poison the environment then change. 

 

I grew up among farmers I know them well, we even got sayings about farmers that all they ever do is complain. 

 

I said consumers will pay.. but that is not enough farmers need more.. not going half way.. no its their way or no way. Bad attitude. 

I understand your sentiment towards farmers.

But there are poisons and there are other poisons,

The poison here is paraquat,it's applied pre or just post emergence of a crop.

Unless you are going to desicate which nobody does here it's perfectly safe for the consumer at the end.

Did you know a organic alternate product for paraquat is made from oil of cloves,it's a poison.

 

8 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

This is something that has been done all over the world. I am very sure that they can manage to survive here too. There will not be that much difference. I do think that they are afraid of morw work though, and try to use deadly chemicals out of lazyness.

So you could not come up with a figure then.

What about fire? I guess it has high initial cost? 

 

2 hours ago, Emdog said:

Let's say it doesn't get into roots, fine. Would there be problems with where this poison does go? Food chain, runoff, things like that? Anyone have info on what happens when it gets into environment in general?

Not to mention into the Lungs and Intestines of the poor, underpaid Sods that I see spraying it all over the Fields.

No consideration is given to protective gear being issue by these Farmers

They are Killing people slowly with this Poisonous stuff.

FACT:-  Paraquat is the No 1 choice to people who commit Suicide in the Philippines

2 hours ago, Tayaout said:

and can be absorbed via the skin

The  risk for this is  very  low unless thru a cut etc. 

Thai farmers should really use NO chemicals as they dont protect themselves correctly in anyway

3 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

FACT:-  Paraquat is the No 1 choice to people who commit Suicide in the Philippines

But is  that a reason to ban it?I mean lets  face it you can walk infront of a car, jump off a bridge etc etc, most deaths were by suicide

20 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

cause of  death by deliberate

MOSTLY by deliberate

23 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I do think that they are afraid of morw work though, and try to use deadly chemicals out of lazyness.

do YOU have any idea how difficult it is to get ANYONE to actually work on the land?any idea at all?

Paraquat is banned in the UK, but it is manufactured there for export to countries outside the EU.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/aug/22/uk-condemned-shocking-export-deadly-weedkiller-poorer-countries-paraquat

1 hour ago, Tayaout said:

At the end, I think the consumer should pay the bill.

and theres  the rub...........will they if I have to pay someone 6-7-800 baht a day to  pull weeds as they certainly dont want to do it for 500 and thats "if" you can find someone.

Thais  wont do it, I used to use Burmese but now  they wont do it either, for 5 years I managed with almost no weedkillers only the last 2  years had to use them

1 hour ago, toolpush said:

And just how did you determine that Glyphosate (Round Up) is highly toxic carcinogenic?

Seems to me theres a mass hysteria  over this and paraquat when the main reason is overuse  by Thai farmers  lacking correct protection and thinking that doubling the concentration= will work better.  Words like "probably" dont really stand up well imo.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/14/health/us-glyphosate-cancer-study-scli-intl/index.html

 

The potential carcinogenic properties of glyphosate are the subject of widespread scientific debate. The US Environmental Protection Agency said in a 2017 draft risk assessment that the herbicide "is not likely to be carcinogenic to humans," while the European Food Safety Authority maintains a similar stance. Bayer, which acquired Monsanto in 2018, said the same year that glyphosate is a "safe and efficient weed control tool."

In 2015, however, the World Health Organization's International Agency for Research on Cancer classified glyphosate as "probably carcinogenic to humans."

23 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

I understand your sentiment towards farmers.

But there are poisons and there are other poisons,

The poison here is paraquat,it's applied pre or just post emergence of a crop.

Unless you are going to desicate which nobody does here it's perfectly safe for the consumer at the end.

Did you know a organic alternate product for paraquat is made from oil of cloves,it's a poison.

 

The problem is that if you allow some farmers to use it for this crop it will be used for other crops too in an unsafe way. Unless you think that this wont happen an government checks would be able to prevent this. The only way is to ban it otherwise it will get used for other crops too. That is just the way it is. 

1 minute ago, robblok said:

The problem is that if you allow some farmers to use it for this crop it will be used for other crops too in an unsafe way. Unless you think that this wont happen an government checks would be able to prevent this. The only way is to ban it otherwise it will get used for other crops too. That is just the way it is. 

So where you  going to draw  the line because Thais dont seem to use anything particularly  well, misuse  abounds form cars  to truck to emissions  to chemicals to safety etc etc

4 hours ago, keith101 said:

All three are highly toxic carcinogenic so get over it all of them need to be banned . These elder people don't understand what these chemicals can do the future generations .

Incurable old ways what they need is banning from the industry point blanc and close em down.

2 minutes ago, Chazar said:

So where you  going to draw  the line because Thais dont seem to use anything particularly  well, misuse  abounds form cars  to truck to emissions  to chemicals to safety etc etc

In this case the danger is too big for consumers so in this case the good will have to suffer because of the bad. That is just how it is unfortunately. 

16 minutes ago, Chazar said:

The  risk for this is  very  low unless thru a cut etc. 

Thai farmers should really use NO chemicals as they dont protect themselves correctly in anyway

Paraquat poisoning is also possible after skin exposure. Poisoning is more likely to occur if the skin exposure lasts for a long time, involves a concentrated version of paraquat, or occurs through skin that is not intact (skin that has sores, cuts, or a severe rash).

https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/paraquat/basics/facts.asp

 

There is a reason why you need full protective gears but most workers ignore this and might get sick after even low exposure over several years. 

 

 

4 hours ago, keith101 said:

All three are highly toxic carcinogenic so get over it all of them need to be banned . These elder people don't understand what these chemicals can do the future generations .

Paraquat is highly toxic when made up in a batch for spraying. but when it hits the soil it becomes inert.  Don't scaremonger with false 'news'.

2 minutes ago, Liverpudlian said:

Incurable old ways what they need is banning from the industry point blanc and close em down.

It's more like an attack on a certain section of industry because of previous failures to regulate and provide support in technical data(that would be usually the puiyai ban) and subsidy of PPE.  

12 minutes ago, robblok said:

In this case the danger is too big for consumers so in this case the good will have to suffer because of the bad. That is just how it is unfortunately. 

What danger.

 

What danger.
 

The danger might not be there for casava but the danger is there for other crops. There is no way they can regulate it that it will only be used for casava so a ban is the only option.

That is what you get in countries like these. We seen that only harsh measures work.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

The alveolar epithelial cells of the lung selectively concentrates paraquat.^[32] Even a single swig, immediately spat out, can cause death from fibrous tissue developing in the lungs, leading to asphyxiation.^[33]

One of the characters in the infamous British public information film Apaches (1977) dies hours after accidentally swallowing a small amount; the paraquat in the film is contained in a receptacle similar to a whisky bottle.

According to the Centers for Disease Control, ingesting paraquat causes symptoms such as liver, lung, heart, and kidney failure within several days to several weeks that can lead to death up to 30 days after ingestion. Those who suffer large exposures are unlikely to survive. Chronic exposure can lead to lung damage, kidney failure, heart failure, and oesophageal strictures.^[34] Accidental deaths and suicides from paraquat ingestion are relatively common. For example, there are more than 5,000 deaths in China from paraquat poisoning every year.^[35] Long-term exposures to paraquat would most likely cause lung and eye damage, but reproductive/fertility damage was not found by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in their review.

 

 

 

I have some doubts about farmers if they know the dangers of using this product or I think they totally ignore the effects of Paraquat

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraquat

 

 

1 minute ago, robblok said:

The danger might not be there for casava but the danger is there for other crops. There is no way they can regulate it that it will only be used for casava so a ban is the only option.

That is what you get in countries like these. We seen that only harsh measures work.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 

 

Everybody who goes to work has a tool,many tools or specialised tools to work with.

Farmers have a range of tools just like if you work in a office,office tools are probably desk lamp,pens,paper and computers etc.

You don't use them all at once,only when required.

Paraquat is a tool for these farmers,they don't use it all the time but only when required.

You take that tool away and have to replace it,the thing is nobody has offered another tool as effective.

When you have Sidchrome you don't swap for Rota.  

Anyone know where to get this in Thailand: https://www.ebay.com/itm/RED-DRAGON-BP-2512-SVC-400-000-BTU-WEED-DRAGON-BACKPACK-PROPANE-VAPOR-TORCH-KIT/283622892066?epid=1701840199&hash=item42093de222:g:lwUAAOSwApRdiPy~

32 minutes ago, robblok said:

The danger might not be there for casava but the danger is there for other crops. There is no way they can regulate it that it will only be used for casava so a ban is the only option.

That is what you get in countries like these. We seen that only harsh measures work.

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I also use paraquat on the farm,not on cassava,not on food crops for human or animal consumption,not in public places.

Should i be allowed to continue using it at label rates or less.

Can anyone give me a good reason not to use it other than self harm?

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

In this case the danger is too big for consumers so in this case the good will have to suffer because of the bad. That is just how it is unfortunately. 

next stop ban all vehicles then as that far exceeds  paraquat deaths

1 hour ago, Mister Fixit said:

Paraquat is highly toxic when made up in a batch for spraying.

I dont believe it is its  only "highly dangerous" neat, when diluted with water its a  lot  less dangerous

1 hour ago, Mister Fixit said:

Paraquat is highly toxic when made up in a batch for spraying. but when it hits the soil it becomes inert.  Don't scaremonger with false 'news'.

depends if sandy or clay type  soil

42 minutes ago, robblok said:

The danger might not be there for casava but the danger is there for other crops. There is no way they can regulate it that it will only be used for casava so a ban is the only option.

That is what you get in countries like these. We seen that only harsh measures work.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 

I don't think you seem to understand what paraquat is and how it works.

 

It isn't sprayed ON the crops, it's sprayed ON the weeds.  So it isn't 'used for cassava'.  It's used to kill the weeds which compete with the cassava crop.  

 

As a keen gardener with a large allotment and a half in the UK before I came here, I used paraquat for weed control for years and years.  Once absorbed into the soil and any vegetation (by which I mean weeds) it becomes inert (one of its major advantages) and harmless.  

 

Seriously, doesn't anyone know anything nowadays and just relies on uninformed knee-jerk reactions to an emotive subject?