Building a House in Issan

[Cashboy]

This is a continuation of this thread:

 

If you read the last thread you will know that I contracted out the labour for building the structure (columns and beams, concrete floors, steel roof and concrete tiles).

 

The structure (columns and beams and concrete roof tiles).

 

Here are some pictures of that:

 

 

Stairs:

 

 

Steel roof was built.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cashboy]

Some more pictures.

Not in order of build.

 

 

 

 

I hired a concrete pump for the job on two occasions.

(1) Concreting the second floor

(2) Filling the columns on the second floor to roof.

 

I used CPAC concrete (their top grade) for everything.  The extra cost (compared to the independents) was vastly different and we are talking about a structure, not a garden path.

The contractor said that CPAC seemed easier to use and better quality.  In fact he was doing another contract and changed to CPAC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They then put the concrete tiled roof on the building

 

 

 

Foil insulation to keep the heat off was used.

 

 

The contractor had finished his work except the roof of the front entrance porch.

 

The cost at this stage was:

 

Contract Labour including bonus I decided to pay him.                                                                    250,000 bt

Building Materials, wood for scaffold, drawings and subsistence                                                       675,200  bt

 

TOTAL for structure and steel and concrete roof                                                                             925,200 bt

 

I was happy with this because I had been quoted around 1,600,000 bt for contractors supplying and building this.

I had upped the gauge of the raw bar, used CPAC concrete, and doubled up on the steel main structure.

 

This was where I was at April 2018.

 

To be continued:

 

[Cashboy]

Obviously the contractor wanted to do the labour of the next stage; the walls and plastering etc.

 

I told him that I would be using 15cm wide Q blocks  (thermalites to us).

He wondered what I was talking about and had never heard of these blocks.

I found that quite worrying.

I took him with the "secretary" to SCG builders merchants to show him them and that they even do 20cm wide Q Blocks.

 

I asked the "secretary" to ask him for a quote.

He said 285,000 bt for block work, small bricks in 3 bathrooms and plastering walls inside and out.

I thought this was a bit coincidental that the building was 285 M2.

I went to look at the walls of his previous job about 2 kms away and the plastering wasn't that great.

 

I went around the neighbouring villages to look for bricklayers and plasters on a job.

I came accross a couple (husband and wife) that were brick laying.  There work was very neat work.  There family bricklayed and plastered so no shortage of a team.

I asked them for prices of laying and plastering the small clay bricks and price for laying and plastering the Q blocks that they were familiar with.

They gave me prices per metre square and worked out that 285,000 bt was high.

 

I therefore asked the contractor that had quoted 285,00 bt for a break down of the figure.

It was obvious that he assumed I was going to give him the work then.

He then gave me a list of what he was going to do with breakdown of prices.

This time it came to 228,000 bt so I was already making a saving of 57,000 bt just by asking for this.

 

I decided to go for the couple so went back to see them with the Thai "secretary".

They were willing to do the work but did not know when they could start because they were working for a contractor.

They said that we would have to ask their contractor (95% of the work they did was for a contractor) before they could work for us.

The Thai secretary telephone this contractor and discovered that it was one of the contractors that had quoted 1,600,000 bt to put the skeleton and roof up.

He wanted to quote for the brick and plastering job but the "secretary" told him that they said they would directly work for us.  He said OK.

However when she went back to the bricklayer couple, they told us they could not do the work because their boss contractor told her they were not allowed.

He was obvioulsy <deleted> off that we hadn't used him.

 

In the mean time I bought 1,600 blocks (15cm x 20cm x 60cm) and some bags of cement glue to build the external walls.

 

The Technician telephoned and asked if he should start laying the blocks tomorrow.

The Thai secretary told him that I would be laying the blocks myself.

 

I had decided to put my own labour team together (from the village) to do this stage myself.

I wanted to give work to people in teh village and had this idea that maybe I should start my own small construction company.

This is a risky matter because you can <deleted> off your local village people if you have to reject them because their work is poor.

 

I started laying the blocks myself in the mean time as I was going back to the UK in a week and decided that the only way to do the job with my own village team would be to be on the job with them.

 

 

 

 

 

The Thai "secretary" had taken a lot of photos all the time on her Smart Phone and despit me telling her to down load them didn't and the inevitable happened, she dropped it, smashed the screen and was unable to extract the pictures.

The pictures I have are only the ones I took on my camera.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cashboy]

I came back to Thailand two months later.

I brought from the UK some proper 11" stainless steel trowels, some line pins and even stretchable line.

I got my team of Thai builders together from the village.  they all new each other.

 

One claimed to be a manager for ItalThai main contractor company setting out and managing a contract team.

He was going to run the job of laying the small bricks in the three bathrooms (8,000 bricks), shutter and do the concrete lintels on the internal walls of these bricks and the Q con internal blocks.

Another had been a foreman in Bangkok on building up market houses.

Another had worked in Isreal for two years bricklaying.

Another had worked in Bangkok in construction.

I agreed to pay them each 450bt per day and I would be laying the 15cm Q con external blocks and Q con lintels.

 

I bought some equipmet including:

3 Galvanised Towers

Bosch SDS drill

AEG HSS drill

An electric mixer for mixing the Q Con glue for the blocks

A couple of large step ladders

 

All was well except I could see that the "manager" knew the theory but was <deleted> in practice and would always try to take short cuts.

As I have always maintained, you have to be on site from the arrival of the first worker to the last leaving and you need to be hands on if you want to get the job done satisfactorily.

 

Some pictures:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cashboy]

While the bricklaying was going on, I decided that the steel roof structure could possibly do with some more welding so bought a 250 Amp arc welder, mask, welding rods and found someone in the village to go over the whole roof adding welds and repaint all the steel with rust protection again.

That took 7 days at 450 bt per day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be continued:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Cashboy

[Cashboy]

I decided to put the sofits in under the roof before the walls were finished on the second floor.

I thought I would experiment by using concrete wood  strips 25cm wide x 3 metres long.

It looks nice in my opinion but too labour intense.

The welder had to add more steel to support the strips.  He made a few errors in the positioning of those steel supports meaning many more cuts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I still have to cover all the screws up.

I am hoping that air passes between the strips to help vent the roof but that animals do not get in.

 

 

 

[Cashboy]

Then it was back to the UK for 4 months.

On my return to Thailand I was relieved to hear that my manager had left the village to go back to Bangkok to work.

The bricklayer that had worked in Isreal was working on the construction of a massive new sugar cane factory down the road (1 km away).

 

I decided to ask my worker from last time that I found most competent to now manager the works and he introduced someone that he works with.

We would endeavour to plaster the building

Two of them would bring their wives to labour ( carry the buckets of plaster and clean out the plaster machine and tidy up)

The team would comprise at peak times:

3 plastering at 500 bt each

1 man labourer at 450 bt each

2 women labourers at 350 bt each.

 

I purchased another 10 galvanised towers, some extra cross bars and horizontals and 12 horizontal platforms for the towers.

 

Plastering began:

 

I chased out all the sockets for electric, internet and TV;  110 sockets in all and generally did labouring, especially carrying the buckets of plaster up the towers and up the stairs.

 

 

What was quite amusing was that the Technician from buiding the structure had to come back to finish the front porch roof during this.

You can see that he was surprised at the quality of the work and the team I had put together.

He was a good guy but where he went wrong with me is that he did not listen to concerns and would just grin.

I would recommend him for the skeleton but he screwed up on the stairs and the roof ridges that I had told him were a concern to me.

I can tell you that these builders can never get the roofs, stairs and sewage right.

 

 

 

 

 

[Aussiepeter]

Love your house Cashboy. Mt missus and I built a similar palace in Saraphi, Chiang Mai in 2008 and lived there for five years, before cancer sent us permanently to Australia. Had the same problems as you - I also bought a welder and spent hours after the workers left for days putting in extra welds in the roof. We had a Thai builder, but he was too busy with his mia-nois and fighting roosters to supervise his workers, so I had to rectify all the faults, but it turned out great, as I am sure your place will be ! I put terracotta red CPAC tiles on our place and it looked A1. I went back in March this year whilst in CM to take a look - I was shocked at what only 5 years could do in a polluted environment. The tiles on our old place were now almost black ! That and the latest Thai owners had painted it all bright red like a temple.

Good luck - the air wherever you are is clean as from the photos, nothing like what CM has become. Cheers. (PS, I am actually a Brit, (from where the Kray twins came from) but have lived in Oz for yonks).

[Cashboy]

Ceilings:

 

Downstairs I would not put plaster board (gypsum) on the ceilings, but I would have the ceilings and beams skimmed.

This would give me higher ceilings (3.4 metre instead of 3 metre) that would be better for keeping the rooms cool.  It would also prevent animals and bugs living between the roof and plaster board.

 

Upstairs I would put plaster board (gypsum 9mm) on the ceilings in the bedroom and landing and cement board on the balconies and bathrooms.

However, instead of supporting these on those aluminium strips suspended by steel wire, I would put 10cm x 5 cm, 1.5mm steel in a 60cm centres to support this.

This would be stronger and enable me to be able to access the inside of the roof and use it for storage.

I therefore got back my welder man and helped him put more steels in the roof while the plasterers continued to plaster downstairs.

 

The welder man, myself and the Thai "secretary" put the plaster board and cement board up ourselves (54 sheets of 240 x 120 plaster baord and 14 sheets of 240 x 120 cement board).  The plasterers sanded and skimmed the boards, ready for painting.

 

 

I purchased 12 cement boards (240cm x 120cm x 16mm ) and put in the loft of the building for storing things (gives 34 M2 floor storage) and access for maintenance.

Each of those boards weighs 68 kgs.

I shall insulate the roof with 15cm insulation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eyecatcher]

Excellent job Cashboy, 

I am with you, if you want a job doing do it yourself.

Saraphi is the place eh Peter? I must have started my build not long after you left.......and I am still going, 4 years later!

[transam]

The stair look a bit steep......????

[Apiwan2]

Love watching a house build

Keep it coming [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G965F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Cashboy]

Summary of costs and thought to date:

 

I am an accountant / troubleshooter; not a builder.

My experience in building was from labouring/ digging footings / under pinning / brick layers labourer for my next door neighbour who had a construction company from 14 years old to 20 while I was a student.

 

I am not happy with the roof tiles under the ridge tiles.

And what annoys me is that I did tell the Technician the problems that will occur and sure enough they have.

 

The steps are not long enough; again I spent ages on the drawings for the architect who for some reason changed my landing width from my 1.2 metre on the drawing to 

1.5 metre making the steps shorter at 20cm instead of 23 cm.

There is a beam in the staircase that again I had under the stairs at mid level in my drawing but the architect put it at first floor level.

 

Recent pictures but all windows are in and all plastering is finished.

 

 

Cost to date for a 295 M2 2 floor house

 

Labour and Subsistence                                       491,000

Drawings and govt fees                                          20,000

Materials                                                          1,049,000

Loose Tools                                                           15,800

Equipment (can be used again)                              124,100

Diesel (pick up collecting materials)                        22,600

Delivery                                                                  5,400

 

Total                                                                 1,727,900

 

That cost does not include my time !!

 

I estimate to finish of between 800,000  bt and 1,200,000 bt depending on the sanitary ware, kitchen and tiles I use.

 

The equipment that I have can be used on other jobs as can some of the loose tools.

 

Equipment I have includes:

Marston plaster mixer (18,400 bt)

13 galavnised towers

12 platforms

2 SDS drills (AEG and Bosch)

5 HSS drills  (AEG)

3 Angle grinders (AEG)

Heat Gun (AEG)

Tile Cutter (Euro 850mm)

Marble/Tile Cutter (AEG 1200 watt)

250 Amp Arc Welder

Steel Cutter 14"  (Hyundai)

Bosch skill saw

Mixer

2 No 2.8mtr step ladders

7 mtr ladder

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

No disrespect intended, but i built a house in Isaan 14 years ago.

10 kms from the missus's village.

On a 1 rai plot of land, that's 1600 sq metres, walled off.

Our own compound, in the middle of nowhere.

No neighbors.

Still here.

Your place may turn into a wonderful home, but it looks like a small plot of land, ie all house and no garden.

Location looks to be smack bang in the middle of the village.

A sort of stand out mansion among all the tin roof slum dwellers (no disrespect to the tin roof inhabitants).

Not exactly a view to die for, nor the peace & quiet i would require living in the sticks like i like.

Best of luck.

[Cashboy]

1 hour ago, Aussiepeter said:

Love your house Cashboy. Mt missus and I built a similar palace in Saraphi, Chiang Mai in 2008 and lived there for five years, before cancer sent us permanently to Australia. Had the same problems as you - I also bought a welder and spent hours after the workers left for days putting in extra welds in the roof. We had a Thai builder, but he was too busy with his mia-nois and fighting roosters to supervise his workers, so I had to rectify all the faults, but it turned out great, as I am sure your place will be ! I put terracotta red CPAC tiles on our place and it looked A1. I went back in March this year whilst in CM to take a look - I was shocked at what only 5 years could do in a polluted environment. The tiles on our old place were now almost black ! That and the latest Thai owners had painted it all bright red like a temple.

Good luck - the air wherever you are is clean as from the photos, nothing like what CM has become. Cheers. (PS, I am actually a Brit, (from where the Kray twins came from) but have lived in Oz for yonks).

AussiePete:

Sad to hear that you left Thailand because of health.  I hope you recover and can keep coming back to Thailand.

With all the new Thai immigration rules and compulsory health insurance in the near future there are going to be a lot of farnag that cannot stay.

I used CPAC tiles on my roof but dark grey for practicality.

[Cashboy]

1 hour ago, transam said:

The stair look a bit steep......????

 

Transam,

 

You are correct !

 

The first run hall to half landing are 22.5cm step and 18 cm high but the second set from half landing to landing are 20cm wide and 18 cm high and hence steep.

From some of the buildings I have seen in Thailand, having each step the same height is an acievement.  

I might be able to extend each step by 1cm on the second run of steps to 21cm.

 

If you ever build in Thailand, you will always find issues with the following:

 

1) Roof - usually too many hips and eaves joining and with poor building always result in leaks.

2) Stairs - most Thais just cannot measure out right and it is not rocket science (saying that some of the East Europeans working in the Uk seem to be a bit confused).

3) Sewage - just cannot get the correct fall; if a fall at all from toilet to tanks etc.

 

I haven't reached the sceptic tank stage but shall do that myself with a labourer working with me.

 

 

 

 

[Cashboy]

51 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

No disrespect intended, but i built a house in Isaan 14 years ago.

10 kms from the missus's village.

On a 1 rai plot of land, that's 1600 sq metres, walled off.

Our own compound, in the middle of nowhere.

No neighbors.

Still here.

Your place may turn into a wonderful home, but it looks like a small plot of land, ie all house and no garden.

Location looks to be smack bang in the middle of the village.

A sort of stand out mansion among all the tin roof slum dwellers (no disrespect to the tin roof inhabitants).

Not exactly a view to die for, nor the peace & quiet i would require living in the sticks like i like.

Best of luck.

ThaiGuzzi,

 

I totally agree with you.

The plot of land is all house and no garden and located in the middle of the village.

The house has a foot print of 180 m2 (including over hanging roof) and the land it is on is 1.5 nang = 600 m2 including the old house on the plot.

If I was to knock down the old house (living in it at the moment) then there would be more garden but even then I would probably build a large workshop on it.

The view from upstairs is not bad because you have a view above most of the roof tops but not what one would call "die for views".

As a house, the building would have limited resale value because it is too big in comparison to the houses around it.

 

This building is going to be a house and office for my business in Thailand, hence so big.

If you look at the floor plan you will understand how flexible I have made the building as I was not sure what my plans are.

I also built is so large because the problems of building a large house are basically the same as building a small house.

 

 

 

 

 

Location is good being 200 metres from the A2 road (main Kon Kean to Udonthani ).

The all important 7-11 is also 200 metres away (so important to younger Thai).

Market is 350 metres away.

The Thai "secretary" wants to live in her village and that is her land, i.e. I didn't pay for that land and the old house.

 

The neighbours land and house (old 40 year old wooden house) on 2 nang ( 800 m2) is up for sale but family asking 2 Million bt so obviously living in fantasy world and can keep it.

 

I agree that living out of the village away from scroungers, barking dogs and motorbikes with go fast exhausts is better.

I bought 5 rai (red chanot) in January 2019 from someone with financial problems for 750,000 bt one kilometer out of the village.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Cashboy

[transam]

28 minutes ago, Cashboy said:

 

Transam,

 

You are correct !

 

The first run hall to half landing are 22.5cm step and 18 cm high but the second set from half landing to landing are 20cm wide and 18 cm high and hence steep.

From some of the buildings I have seen in Thailand, having each step the same height is an acievement.  

I might be able to extend each step by 1cm on the second run of steps to 21cm.

 

If you ever build in Thailand, you will always find issues with the following:

 

1) Roof - usually too many hips and eaves joining and with poor building always result in leaks.

2) Stairs - most Thais just cannot measure out right and it is not rocket science (saying that some of the East Europeans working in the Uk seem to be a bit confused).

3) Sewage - just cannot get the correct fall; if a fall at all from toilet to tanks etc.

 

I haven't reached the sceptic tank stage but shall do that myself with a labourer working with me.

 

 

 

 

When I was looking at a house design there were many faults in it. Luckily there was a show house, the main issue was the steepness of the stairs. I changed a lot of the interior to accommodate a western "angle" staircase, including step height. At the time I thought there is no way I could climb the original angle in my old age. There was a bit of head scratching but all ended well.. 

[Aussiepeter]

It's like reading the story of my build - exactly the same problems ! I turned up one day and there were two workers building what appeared to be a chimney on the side of our house, right where the steps would be. It turned out that the builder had changed both the size of the turnaround/landing and the depth of the steps and needed this new 'box' on the outside to accommodate his new landing ! It was too late to change the steps back to the right depth for my size 11 UK ex-soldiers' feet as we had been to Maesai for a Non-O visa stamp, but I managed to get the landing back to size. They wanted to knock down the 'chimney' but I had them roof it and bung in a window and used it as a tool shed ! Yes eyecatcher, we loved Saraphi and if you are bored, you can view my old gaff only 50m from Wat Don Kaew, on the street with the (now covered) klong. Can't miss it - the wall has dozens of broken beer bottles set in cement on top - builders idea, not mine. Right next to the main water tower for the suburb. I reckon Cashboys place puts mine to shame, by the way. we spent 1.2 mill baht in 2008, sold it for 1.5 (worth heaps more but a fire sale) in 2013. It re-sold in 2018 for 2.4 mill. Cheers all, time for a lager. Gotta see the finished photo Cashboy !

 

[CNXexpat]

Interesting thread. Thank you. Wise decision to use these bricks instead of the massive red bricks. Are they more expensive per sq.m.?

What I wouldn´t like if I live in your house, that when I look out of the window in the ground floor, I always see a wall. 

[Cashboy]

22 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

Interesting thread. Thank you. Wise decision to use these bricks instead of the massive red bricks. Are they more expensive per sq.m.?

 

The current price in the builders merchants  (Global House , Thai Watsadu, Do Home) for G Con type Blocks is

15 cm thick x 20 cm high and 60cm long is 41 bt each

So a block is 0.6 x 0.2 mtrs => 0.12 m2 so you need 8.33 blocks for 1 m2 => 340 bt per m2 

The price for a 7.5cm thick brick is 21 bt  so => 8.33 blocks for 1m2 => 175 bt per m2

 

[Qman]

Excellent post highlighting building issues and solutions in Thailand.  It pays to do things yourself and visit work sites of those you may hire to see their standards and skills.  A serious time commitment in the end but your results have paid off to get a quality building at a fair cost. 

 

Always wonder when buying previously owned homes about the quality of the original construction.  Some things are obvious but others you will never know but probably best to assume not high quality unless the owner was involved in the process and had higher standards.  Developer built homes you probably should assume cost savings to them to increase their profits.

 

Look forward to seeing the final outcomes of your home project.

[robpuff]

This looks SUPER! I hope to do similar perhaps not so grand in Ban Chiang...thank you for sharing!

 

[isaantom]

Congrats!

 

My house: different

My problems: same same

 

[TheFishman1]

Nice pictures is your house the biggest on the area? Looks like a big house but if you have a big family well best of luck just looks out of place in that area 

[LukKrueng]

I took a well recommended constructor. One floor@ 150m2. CPAC roof told with foil insulation, 7.5 cm q con bricks external & internal + separate car parking. Labor total 300k. Total including materials, complete bathrooms (2) all in just under 1m, not including kitchen. I just added kitchen furniture and equipment (stove, sink, built in oven) for 200k.

building started last week of February 2018, connected internet last week of May, moved in first week of June

[slappy]

The secretary brews a cracking cup of Yorkshire tea also.

 

[Rv Hawee]

About your roof : why didn't you choose a white or neutral grey color, also for heat protection ?

 

Anyway;, nice house. I still have to wait few years before built a new one.

[CharlieH]

unpleasant Troll comment removed.

[Netease]

23 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

No disrespect intended, but i built a house in Isaan 14 years ago.

10 kms from the missus's village.

On a 1 rai plot of land, that's 1600 sq metres, walled off.

Our own compound, in the middle of nowhere.

No neighbors.

Still here.

Your place may turn into a wonderful home, but it looks like a small plot of land, ie all house and no garden.

Location looks to be smack bang in the middle of the village.

A sort of stand out mansion among all the tin roof slum dwellers (no disrespect to the tin roof inhabitants).

Not exactly a view to die for, nor the peace & quiet i would require living in the sticks like i like.

Best of luck.

I'm with you Thaiguzzi I'm building on 6,000 m2 overlooking rice fields up to the mountains set the house out to view the mountains with beautiful sunrise other side of the house views sunset all rooms have a view