Thai government to slap CO2 tax on big bikes

[guzzi850m2]

I though this is important for us here in motorcycle forum. Also note that this tax will increase year by year if manufacturers do not reduce their CO2 emissions, so better buy your dream bike rather sooner than later.

 

I don't think its fair, what about all those cars/trucks sitting in traffic & air-condition running full blast using a lot of fuel!! I know from my own truck when we drive around in Pattaya, it's over 12 lit diesel per 100km and first manage good fuel economy when cruising on a trip to somewhere.

 

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/economy/thai-government-to-slap-co2-tax-on-big-bikes

 

The Thai Excise Department is poised to boost the tax on “big bikes” by 100,000 baht starting at the beginning of next year. The new tax will reflect motorcycle CO2 emissions.

The director of the department’s Bureau of Tax Planning, Nutthakorn Utensute, says the Cabinet will adjust the tax increase for high-powered motorcycles based on their CO2 emissions, rather than engine size, as originally proposed as a tax on higher-powered motorbikes.

 

The new tax rates can represent 3, 5, 9 or 18% of the purchase value, varying according to CO2 emissions.

The tax increases will apply to motorbikes manufactured or imported on and after January 1, 2020. Bikes with engines of 150 cc or less, probably 90% of all motorcycles in the country, will attract an additional tax around 1000 baht, representing an increase from 2.5 to 3% of the retail or import price.

But ‘big bikes’ with engines of 1,000cc or more will be taxed an extra 100,000 baht due to their higher fuel consumption and CO2 emissions.

Nutthakorn says… “The higher tax on big bikes will not affect most owners since they’re worth more than Bt1 million, which means the owners can afford it. The big bike has become more popular in Thailand, but still only represent 2-3% of the total number of motorcycles here.”

Nutthakorn said that if manufacturers do not reduce their CO2 emissions, the Excise Department will slap buyers with further increases of up to 700 million baht per annum.

[zhounan]

When put tax on big corporations?

How many tax pays Mr. CP?

[thaiguzzi]

30 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Nutthakorn says…

 

31 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Bikes with engines of 150 cc or less, probably 90% of all motorcycles in the country, will attract an additional tax around 1000 baht, representing an increase from 2.5 to 3% of the retail or import price.

I bet Mr Nutthakorn does not ride a Honda Wave, nor any of his immediate family ride a Scooby/Fino, nor even his maid rides a Click to work.

They all get chauffeured about in cars.....

Just another example of how out of touch this govt is with the people who actually work for a living.

[JonnyF]

I'd say 1000 Baht tax on motorcycles less than 150cc is the most stupid thing. A couple of adults riding around on a modern, unmodified FI Honda Wave must be one of the most efficient, clean methods of transport known to man (short of riding a bike or a horse but that's not really practical for people commuting to work etc.). They also solve congestion problems meaning cars spend less time going nowhere while chucking out fumes. Small bikes should be given a tax break, not taxed more.

 

The tax on big bikes is just a money grab. Sure, they aren't super clean but most of them only do very few miles as well. 

 

The fairest way is to tax the fuel IMO. The more you use, the more tax you pay.

[tifino]

and a TukTuk is even bigger than a big bike; especially with it's second hand re-purposed car motor...

[guzzi850m2]

4 hours ago, tifino said:

and a TukTuk is even bigger than a big bike; especially with it's second hand re-purposed car motor...

Many of them in BKK runs on LPG.

 

Yes this new tax system doesn't make much sense to anybody expect the ones that made them and 1000 baht extra for a Honda Wave is a good bit of money for a poor family up in the sticks so they will wait buying a new one and keep their old not so economical scooter running instead, polluting more.

 

As JonnyF said: Raise fuel prices 5-10% and you pays according to your consumption, this will also give the government much more money, way more.

Some buses and large trucks/lorries are polluting very badly with black smoke pouring out of the exhaust, why don't they do something about them instead?  

[Kwasaki]

8 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Nutthakorn said that if manufacturers do not reduce their CO2 emissions, the Excise Department will slap buyers with further increases of up to 700 million baht per annum.

What another total no brainer CO2 emissions really what a studi'k di'k, get age restrictions and training costs into big bikes and proper instruction in a sensible way.  

[emptypockets]

I suppose there is some silver lining in that it is not simply based on engine capacity as first proposed.

I wonder how they will determine the CO2 output of a new bike. Actually go to the factory and measure a representative sample of bikes or rely on each manufacturer to supply the data (remember VW)? I reckon the big bike manufacturers will tell them to get stuffed and the whole proposal will collapse.

[Damrongsak]

Tax the fuel!  Tax the farmers for every rai of crop residue burned. Tax the big factories and tighten the emissions requirements. 

[papa al]

Let's get real people.

Water is the biggest greenhouse gas, maybe 60% +.

Since WW2, CO₂ has risen from 300ppm to 400ppm.

CO₂ constitutes only 0.5 % of the dry air.

Do the math, that is only a 0.005% change in the troposphere.

Photosynthesis:  CO₂ + H₂O ==light==> carbohydrate.

Earth has been in a warming trend for 15,000 years.

Does man-made CO₂ contribute; yes, but very, very little.

Like peeing in a lake raises the water level.

 

[saengd]

3 minutes ago, papa al said:

Let's get real people.

Water is the biggest greenhouse gas, maybe 60% +.

CO₂ constitutes only 0.5 % of the dry air.

Since WW2, CO₂ has risen from 300ppm to 400ppm.

Do the math, that is only a 0.01% change in the troposphere.

Photosynthesis:  CO₂ + H₂O ==light==> carbohydrate.

Earth has been in a warming trend for 15,000 years.

Does man-made CO₂ contribute; yes, but very, very little.

Like peeing in a lake raises the water level.

 

If you have 11,000 stamps you could write and tell them they should get real:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-emergency-scientists-emissions-letter-climate-change-a9185786.html

[papa al]

7 minutes ago, saengd said:

If you have 11,000 stamps you could write and tell them they should get real:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-emergency-scientists-emissions-letter-climate-change-a9185786.html

"them" are not interested in facts nor logic,

which contradict their dogma.

[saengd]

3 minutes ago, papa al said:

"they" are not interested in facts nor logic,

which contradict their dogma.

11,000 scientists not interested in fact or logic, is that a world record or something, like getting 51 people into a VW camper van?

[saengd]

I'm sorry, I'm being facetious, but you see how silly the argument is? If we said 11,000 shopkeepers weren't interested in logic or facts I could buy that, but scientists! It's like saying 11,000 doctors weren't interested in symptoms.

[papa al]

Ad hominem arguments lack validity.

Once a scientist or MD buys into a theory,

he really cannot change else he looks dumb.

And the money:

My friend is a biologist who was seeking a grant to study squirrel habitat.

No luck.  Then he decided to re-title his study something like:

Squirrel Habitat and Climate Change.

Bingo.       Funding.

Same with doctors.  

Statin drugs are widely prescribed but do way more harm than good.

Scientists are just as susceptible to cognitive dissonance as others are.

Some people believe that an aluminium airplane

can fly into a steel skyscraper 1000x

more massive and bring it down.

Just because they say so on TV.

Go figure.

 

[grego49]

On 11/5/2019 at 1:04 PM, JonnyF said:

I'd say 1000 Baht tax on motorcycles less than 150cc is the most stupid thing. A couple of adults riding around on a modern, unmodified FI Honda Wave must be one of the most efficient, clean methods of transport known to man (short of riding a bike or a horse but that's not really practical for people commuting to work etc.). They also solve congestion problems meaning cars spend less time going nowhere while chucking out fumes. Small bikes should be given a tax break, not taxed more.

 

The tax on big bikes is just a money grab. Sure, they aren't super clean but most of them only do very few miles as well. 

 

The fairest way is to tax the fuel IMO. The more you use, the more tax you pay.

Thats too logical for there people to tax fuel,,,

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, papa al said:

Some people believe that an aluminium airplane

can fly into a steel skyscraper 1000x

You can try this yourself using an empty coke can and your forehead.

[saengd]

17 minutes ago, papa al said:

Ad hominem arguments lack validity.

Once a scientist buys into a theory,

he really cannot change else he looks dumb.

And the money:

My friend is a biologist who was seeking a grant to study squirrel habitat.

No luck.  Then he decided to re-title his study something like:

Squirrel Habitat and Climate Change.

Bingo.       Funding.

Same with doctors.  

Statin drugs are widely prescribed but do way more harm than good.

Scientists are just as susceptible to cognitive dissonance as others are.

Some people believe that an aluminium airplane

can fly into a steel skyscraper 1000x

more massive and bring it down.

Just because they say so on TV.

Go figure.

Go figure.

You appear to want to have a discussion about scientists and their abilities and motives yet you're not a scientist neither is the person you're having the discussion with, that seems odd and counterproductive. But I suppose in the internet age everyone can be an expert on subjects of their choosing but of course "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"! 

 

Personally, I tend to want to leave specialist subjects to specialists. Sure I may self diagnose my own aliments from time to time but I'm always watchful and ready to visit the doctor if what I've tried didn't work out... I may do simple tax returns but am always prepared to visit the tax specialist if things get too complex. And so it is with science, I doubt that even if I'd picked up shed loads of knowledge from the internet on climate change and no matter how in vogue it is to be climate change denier, I'd ever want to pit my knowledge against 11,000 scientists, it just doesn't seem sensible at all.

 

EDIT: Ah, I just picked up on it, a 9/11 conspiracy theorist too, okaydokay....Bye all, I'm out.

[eisfeld]

Quote

Nutthakorn Utensute, says the Cabinet will adjust the tax increase for high-powered motorcycles based on their CO2 emissions, rather than engine size, as originally proposed as a tax on higher-powered motorbikes.

Quote

But ‘big bikes’ with engines of 1,000cc or more will be taxed an extra 100,000 baht due to their higher fuel consumption and CO2 emissions.

Something does not compute here.

 

"We don't tax by cc. Bikes with cc > X will be taxed y% more."

[papa al]

13 hours ago, saengd said:

You appear to want to have a discussion about scientists and their abilities and motives yet you're not a scientist

really?

damn!

6.5 years at uni wasted

[saengd]

6 minutes ago, papa al said:

really?

damn!

6.5 years at uni wasted

You could try for a refund, that may work, it seems deserved.

[Damrongsak]

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You can try this yourself using an empty coke can and your forehead.

[Damrongsak]

21 minutes ago, papa al said:

really?

damn!

6.5 years at uni wasted

I did about 4.5 years at Uni and about 2 years post-grad with my weenie in Thailand. 

[Agusts]

Damn، so larger capacity bike prices going up in Thailand from next year, that's all we needed... ! 

 

1000 baht for 150cc is so negligible it disappears in the total price and promotions,  but higher, say 10k and up will be noticeable,  but how much on 300cc for example...!? I guess they make it up as they go.... damn... and this ripple down to second hand market too...????

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, Agusts said:

1000 baht for 150cc is so negligible it disappears in the total price and promotions,

Think of the bigger picture and not just your selfish self.

Think of the million new registrations every year of the Waves, Finos, Clicks etc that working class families buy, many on minimum deposit, maximum finance, and how that extra 1000 Baht is another 3 days work for some minimum wage earner.

Think about that for a minute.

[Agusts]

1 minute ago, thaiguzzi said:

Think of the bigger picture and not just your selfish self.

Think of the million new registrations every year of the Waves, Finos, Clicks etc that working class families buy, many on minimum deposit, maximum finance, and how that extra 1000 Baht is another 3 days work for some minimum wage earner.

Think about that for a minute.

 

Come on, for government coffers that is a lot of money, but for an individual is nothing, most Thais buy on finance and pay 1/3 more than the cash price over 3 or 5 years , sometime pay 20k more, 1k doesn't even register on their calculation over 5 years....!

 

And most of Thais buy 125cc bikes, specially the ones you mentioned, so this tax is designed not to effect them if it is 150+ only....

 

Other countries put this on road tax paid annually, or on fuel, this is cleverer way of getting money, let them buy it cheaper, then tax the hell out of them year after year, Thai authorities didn't get that, they should look at western countries...

 

[ballpoint]

Looking at it from a different angle, I registered my 2,300cc motorcycle today which, including the compulsory insurance, came to 850 Baht.  My brother back in NZ registered his 650cc motorcycle last month, which, when converted, came to 11,300 Baht.  (And a 125cc scooter costs 9,300 Baht to register each year there).  I dislike the idea of comparing the price of something in Thailand with the same item elsewhere, and have never made it a factor in my decision to buy a vehicle or not - I can either afford the asking price or I can't, and couldn't care less whether it was half the price in Bulgaria, but personally, I would rather pay a larger tax in one go when making the purchase than pay a larger annual tax (though others may differ).  I guess the point is, older bikes, with generally poorer emissions controls, will be unaffected by this additional tax on new ones, so it would make more sense to increase the annual registration fees, depending on age and size of engine.  Having said that, however, given the number of unregistered bikes about, I suppose they figure its better to grab the money in a lump sum than risk not getting any on an annual basis.

[Denim]

What is this really about ?

 

This is the result of the junta so missmanaging the economy that they are getting desperate for cash to implement the idiotic populist policies they seized power to put an end to.

 

This is nothing. Watch the news. In the coming months there will be a lot of new taxes on all sorts of things . This to recoup the money they have already thrown down the drain in a pathetic attempt to make themselves more popular with the masses.

 

They have looked but not learnt.

[thaiguzzi]

12 hours ago, Agusts said:

 

Come on, for government coffers that is a lot of money, but for an individual is nothing, most Thais buy on finance and pay 1/3 more than the cash price over 3 or 5 years , sometime pay 20k more, 1k doesn't even register on their calculation over 5 years....!

 

And most of Thais buy 125cc bikes, specially the ones you mentioned, so this tax is designed not to effect them if it is 150+ only....

 

Other countries put this on road tax paid annually, or on fuel, this is cleverer way of getting money, let them buy it cheaper, then tax the hell out of them year after year, Thai authorities didn't get that, they should look at western countries...

 

You are not getting it.

They are putting a tax on something that the poorest portion of the population can ill afford.

You may think 1000 Baht is nothing, try telling that to a working mother who has to find that amount and more to buy her kids the new semester school uniform.

It is just another tax on the poor.

Put 25k tax on a new 500cc road bike i have no problem with.

[DJ54]

13 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Waves, Finos, Clicks etc that working class families buy, many on minimum deposit, maximum finance

The interest they charge is ridiculous. I’ve bought 6 new motos 

5 which I paid cash. Last one wife wanted to trade up and I said 

Ok then you pay monthly.

 

Had the cash but wanted to try to teach responsibility of making payments and in time. After a year I decided pay it off .... and <deleted>!

i was under the impression that interest fees were reasonable...

not the case.

 

Adding fees as Guzzi said it’s  going to be an additional burden to working people who have limited funds...