O/A visa and insurance experience today

[Exploring Thailand]

12 hours ago, brianj1964 said:

I did that bit, it said " long stay" or something similar

That's the one you want. There's a guy on here who runs a Facebook group dedicated to TransferWise. They've done some testing and have 100% success rate in having the transfer marked as international using that drop-down option and transferring to Bangkok Bank. The receiving bank has to be Bangkok Bank to be sure of success.

[Exploring Thailand]

15 hours ago, Thaidream said:

There is no law that states the 800K for retirement or 400K for marriage has to be sent from abroad unless one converts  a VE or Tourist Visa to a Non O and then applies.

Thanks. That's useful to know. 

 

Quote

Regarding the income method- if they want to see source of funds, this should be easy to provide- since every financial transaction has some source- pension deposit; investment deposit;  rental income deposit etc .  Simple letterhead from these entities and amounts should suffice. Most people have to declare this on the yealy foreign income tax.

"Should" being the operative word ???? . It sounds as though what some offices really want to see is a single document confirming a pension of at least 65k per month. The further you are from having that, the more likely you are to hear "Cannot".

 

I have a new OA so I have the option of doing a border run at the end of the year (and probably having to buy Thai insurance beforehand). As I have no idea what the immigration regulations or baht exchange-rate will be in a year's time, I'm trying to keep open as many options as possible.

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Not sure of the actual numbers of people on valid OA’s or extensions thereof but I think many are planning their escape from insurance via an O visa or if have a long time left on their extension ( like myself, sept 2020 ) and are still letting the dust settle before making their decision.

+1 i am in the same case

(Renew extension in next october)

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, deej said:

From my view 

The 800ks was put in place

to cover unforseen Medical costs etc etc

Please be free to correct me if i am mistaken

It's just from your view

you can't find it in any official text.

The most shared idea was it was the amount of money

necessary for 1 farang for live 1 year in Thailand and cover all the spends.

But now 400 000 are frozen in a Thai bank all year long and 800 000 for 5 months

so in reality it's just one selection criterion and a forced loan to the Thai bank system

[Peter Denis]

13 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

I have a new OA so I have the option of doing a border run at the end of the year (and probably having to buy Thai insurance beforehand). As I have no idea what the immigration regulations or baht exchange-rate will be in a year's time, I'm trying to keep open as many options as possible.

If you are on a 'new OA' I presume that its validity date has not expired yet.  Exiting and re-entering Thailand  before the OA validity date expires provides you again with a 1 year permission to stay, allowing you to squeeze almost 2 years out of your OA Visa. 

E.g. an OA Visa issued July 2019, will when - timed right - allow you to stay in Thailand till July 2021.

And it's only when your extension of stay is due, that the health-insurance requirement will kick in.

So time enough to consider your options.

[Martyp]

12 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

It's just from your view

you can't find it in any official text.

The most shared idea was it was the amount of money

necessary for 1 farang for live 1 year in Thailand and cover all the spends.

But now 400 000 are frozen in a Thai bank all year long and 800 000 for 5 months

so in reality it's just one selection criterion and a forced loan to the Thai bank system

I've heard both theories about the 800k. That it is for living in Thailand and that it is for medical expenses. It can only be used for living in Thailand if you plan on leaving. You can use it to wrap up your affairs, buy a plane ticket and go.

 

It would be interesting if the Thai government allowed medical savings accounts. Put some money in the bank and allow it to be used for medical expenses only. If you use it you have to top it back up within some short period of time. If they  implemented medical savings accounts then they could scrap the outpatient part of the insurance requirement.

[Exploring Thailand]

13 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

If you are on a 'new OA' I presume that its validity date has not expired yet.  Exiting and re-entering Thailand  before the OA validity date expires provides you again with a 1 year permission to stay, allowing you to squeeze almost 2 years out of your OA Visa. 

E.g. an OA Visa issued July 2019, will when - timed right - allow you to stay in Thailand till July 2021.

Exactly, which is why I went the OA route this time. The pound-baht exchange rate was a 10-year low when I had to make the decision, so I went for on OA, thus avoiding the need to bring in another 800k.

 

Quote

And it's only when your extension of stay is due, that the health-insurance requirement will kick in.

If that's the case, then great. I thought I'd read of mixed-results when people either tried to re-enter on a still-valid OA, or asked Immigration what would happen if they tried to re-enter. I could be wrong though. It's difficult to keep track of all of the reports and reports of reports.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Exploring Thailand

[kingofthemountain]

2 minutes ago, Martyp said:

It would be interesting if the Thai government allowed medical savings accounts. Put some money in the bank and allow it to be used for medical expenses only. If you use it you have to top it back up within some short period of time. If they  implemented medical savings accounts then they could scrap the outpatient part of the insurance requirement.

This option has been mentioned by the health minister at the begining of this fiasco

the idea was to allow the uninsurables (For age and\or pre existing conditions) to cover

their medical spends. Unfortunately since it's the insurance thai lobby who has been put in charge

to elaborate the text, this option was no longer on the table.

[Peter Denis]

6 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

If that's the case, then great. I thought I'd read of mixed-results when people either tried to re-enter on a still-valid OA, or asked Immigration what would happen if they tried to re-enter. I could be wrong though, it's difficult to keep track of all of the reports and reports of reports.

Since the Nov 7 IO Big Boss meeting clarifying that entering Thailand with

- a non-expired pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa

does NOT require health-insurance, there has been not 1 single report of entrants being denied the 1 year permission of stay they are entitled to.

Indeed, some 'toothing problems' have been reported of seemingly insecure Immigration officials still asking for health-insurance, but if you do not have it - as it is not required -, after some deliberation with their IO colleagues, those queried have all been stamped in for the full year they are entitled to.

So presently (we are day 22 of the implementation!) it is safe to say that it is NOT required on entry.

[Exploring Thailand]

8 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Since the Nov 7 IO Big Boss meeting clarifying that entering Thailand with

- a non-expired pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa

does NOT require health-insurance, there has been not 1 single report of entrants being denied the 1 year permission of stay they are entitled to.

Indeed, some 'toothing problems' have been reported of seemingly insecure Immigration officials still asking for health-insurance, but if you do not have it - as it is not required -, after some deliberation with their IO colleagues, those queried have all been stamped in for the full year they are entitled to.

So presently (we are day 22 of the implementation!) it is safe to say that it is NOT required on entry.

That's excellent news.  I think the toothing problem reports were the ones I'd seen, especially the recent one in which the guy was asked for insurance, showed some travel insurance, and was then allowed in. 

[MeePeeMai]

8 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Since the Nov 7 IO Big Boss meeting clarifying that entering Thailand with

- a non-expired pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa

does NOT require health-insurance, there has been not 1 single report of entrants being denied the 1 year permission of stay they are entitled to.

Indeed, some 'toothing problems' have been reported of seemingly insecure Immigration officials still asking for health-insurance, but if you do not have it - as it is not required -, after some deliberation with their IO colleagues, those queried have all been stamped in for the full year they are entitled to.

So presently (we are day 22 of the implementation!) it is safe to say that it is NOT required on entry.

Odd then that they would require Thai health insurance for an extension on an O-A Visa which was obtained prior to Oct. 31

 

Just saying ....

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, deej said:

The 800ks was put in place

to cover unforseen Medical costs etc etc

Please be free to correct me if i am mistaken????

Nothing to do with the current insurance issue or medical costs. The 800k was the revised deposit amount which came in after the collapse in the baht in 1998 - prior to that it had been 200k (people on unbroken extension history pre '98 are still grandfathered in at this amount).

[Thaidream]

14 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

They do tho dont they..

No- they don't.  

 

The Us Embassy is well aware of what is happening and has sent a Diplomatic Note asking for an explanation to their Thai counterparts.

 

In asddition- the Ruropean council has met on the insurance issue and asking for an explanation from the Thai Government.

 

This is not the same reaction that Embassies had to the embassy letter issue and verification of income. There were no Diplomatic notes or detailed answers back to their citizens.

 

IMO the Embassies know that  the insurance issue was poorly planned; patently unfair and want an explanation.

 

Thailand could ignore the issue but  if they do- there are always consequences. Countries have long memories-one hand washes the other.

 

The smart thing  to do (and also the ethical and fair way) is to grandfather everyone on an O-A.  If they do this- the chaos stops; the Embassy queries stop. It's so simple......

 

 

 

 

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Exactly, which is why I went the OA route this time. The pound-baht exchange rate was a 10-year low when I had to make the decision, so I went for on OA, thus avoiding the need to bring in another 800k.

2019 has been a horrible year to bring in this money. In fact it's more like a 25 year low for the pound - 10 years ago rates were in the high 40's, but ever since May this year it's been high 30's. When it dropped below 37 in September, it was at it's lowest rate since 1992.

[brianj1964]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Since the Nov 7 IO Big Boss meeting clarifying that entering Thailand with

- a non-expired pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa

does NOT require health-insurance, there has been not 1 single report of entrants being denied the 1 year permission of stay they are entitled to.

Indeed, some 'toothing problems' have been reported of seemingly insecure Immigration officials still asking for health-insurance, but if you do not have it - as it is not required -, after some deliberation with their IO colleagues, those queried have all been stamped in for the full year they are entitled to.

So presently (we are day 22 of the implementation!) it is safe to say that it is NOT required on entry.

I'm pretty sure but could be wrong there were reports of people leaving Thailand recently to try and get their second year from the O/A being asked to show insurance, or they had enquirers about it

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

I'm pretty sure but could be wrong there were reports of people leaving Thailand recently to try and get their second year from the O/A being asked to show insurance, or they had enquirers about it

Yes, but these are the 'toothing issues' I was referring to.  All those that were queried for health-insurance when entering or re-entering on a non-expired pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa, were eventually stamped in for the full year they were entitled to.

 

[brianj1964]

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, but these are the 'toothing issues' I was referring to.  All those that were queried for health-insurance when entering or re-entering on a non-expired pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa, were eventually stamped in for the full year they were entitled to.

 

I hope that is still the case in 12 months time, or will things change further down the line, I'll ask and if they say I need insurance I'll get a tourist one and move to an O on marriage

[jacko45k]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:11 AM, OJAS said:

Jomtien enhancing their credentials as a rogue office these days when it comes to retirement extensions, I think

Considering the past it doesn't appear they get (or seek) much guidance from above, so do their own thing... but I do see some 'reference' to the police orders. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by jacko45k

[Momofarang]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The smart thing  to do (and also the ethical and fair way) is to grandfather everyone on an O-A.  If they do this- the chaos stops; the Embassy queries stop. It's so simple......

Nope, the only smart thing will be accept any insurance that meets to 40k/400k requirement, and maybe later change this to 0/2000k.

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

I hope that is still the case in 12 months time, or will things change further down the line, I'll ask and if they say I need insurance I'll get a tourist one and move to an O on marriage

After Oct 31, 2020 ALL the previously issued health-insurance exempted OA Visas will have expired.

But those that exited and re-entered Thailand before their pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa validity expired, will have been stamped in for a fresh 1 year permission to stay (without need for health-insurance). 

And later on they will also NOT be required to show health-insurance on re-entry with a re-entry permit for the remaining period of their permission to stay.

 

But when now applying for a new OA Visa health-insurance is a definite requirement.

And when applying for an extension of stay of your OA Visa based on retirement, it looks now that the current practice is to require thai-approved health-insurance (but a diplomatic battle is still going on to pressure Thai authorities to reconsider, and grandfather all pre Oct 31 issued OA Visas).

[Momofarang]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Ruropean council

It is true that in its early days the European council was mostly concerned with agricultural matters but this was a long time ago.

[LivinLOS]

10 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

But when now applying for a new OA Visa health-insurance is a definite requirement.

And when applying for an extension of stay of your OA Visa based on retirement, it looks now that the current practice is to require thai-approved health-insurance (but a diplomatic battle is still going on to pressure Thai authorities to reconsider, and grandfather all pre Oct 31 issued OA Visas).

And in the last few decades, can anyone think of a single time that any diplomatic pressure has changed anything in Thai visa law ?? 

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

And in the last few decades, can anyone think of a single time that any diplomatic pressure has changed anything in Thai visa law ?? 

Yes, and very recently > Nov 7, 2019

Also it does not require a change in thai Visa law, simply changing or amending the Police Order would do the trick.

[LivinLOS]

25 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, and very recently > Nov 7, 2019

Also it does not require a change in thai Visa law, simply changing or amending the Police Order would do the trick.

And what was that on Nov 7th that diplomatic pressure from embassies and consuls fixed ?? 

 

Surely your not concluding the arrival insurance (something thats debatable if its even put to bed yet) came from embassy pressure are you ?? 

[el jefe]

3 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

Odd then that they would require Thai health insurance for an extension on an O-A Visa which was obtained prior to Oct. 31

 

Just saying ....

Agreed. it seems odd that someone who got their O-A in December 2017 now needs insurance when renewing while someone like me who got their visa in Sept 2019 won't need the insurance for 22 more months.
But no more odd than NOT requiring insurance of anyone who is using a retirement extension based on an original O visa.

[el jefe]

4 hours ago, Martyp said:

I've heard both theories about the 800k. That it is for living in Thailand and that it is for medical expenses. It can only be used for living in Thailand if you plan on leaving. You can use it to wrap up your affairs, buy a plane ticket and go.

 

It would be interesting if the Thai government allowed medical savings accounts. Put some money in the bank and allow it to be used for medical expenses only. If you use it you have to top it back up within some short period of time. If they  implemented medical savings accounts then they could scrap the outpatient part of the insurance requirement.

That's the perfect solution. Setting up an escrow type account for the 440,000 baht. It can only be accessed by authorizing the hospital or doctor to draw from it, or going to Immigration to cancel your visa/extension. If authorized to be used by a medical facility it has to be topped up by 60 days before visa/extension renewal.

Of course, the main problem with this is that the Thai insurance companies will lose a fortune in premiums.

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, Martyp said:

One of the many mysteries considering you aren’t allowed to spend it.

 

400k of it. Yes, they pulled a fast one with that effectively making it 1.2 million while the Immigration law still says 800. Personally I think that was overreach, TI does not have authority to change Imm law only enforce it,  and by decreeing that half the 800K has to remain unspent they in effect changed the income requirement. At least for those of us who genuinely live on around 800K a year.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

And in the last few decades, can anyone think of a single time that any diplomatic pressure has changed anything in Thai visa law ?? 

As I recall, the Immigration Bureau directive issued in 2013 prescribing a maximum validity period of 6 months for Embassy income confirmations was as a direct result of representations made to them by the American Embassy in connection with a previous proposal for a maximum validity period of only 1 month.

 

Much good may that do to Americans (as well as to Aussies and Brits) these days, though!

Edited November 21, 2019 by OJAS

[OJAS]

On 11/20/2019 at 12:48 PM, Exploring Thailand said:

Could you expand on this "including home country currency debits"? I read in another thread that some offices won't accept a transfer from your own account in your own country. I'm trying to understand what they actually want to see. I'm in Bangkok, but all information is helpful.

 

http://www.pcecnews.com/permNL/Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf

 

[OJAS]

On 11/20/2019 at 1:41 PM, Max69xl said:

And forget "including home country currency debits". I don't know where he got that from. 

 

http://www.pcecnews.com/permNL/Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf