O/A visa and insurance experience today

[travelerjim]

2 hours ago, el jefe said:

Of course it does. I'm on my first year of an O-A issued Sept 2019. I arrived in October and I'm leaving today, coming back next week. According to 4 reports, I need a reentry permit to keep my Sept 20, 2020 permission to stay alive without insurance.

And I lose my entire second year.

Your first year of O-A includes multiple entry...check your visa...should say MULTIPLE on it

[brianj1964]

25 minutes ago, jackdd said:

They are acceptable.

 

Another important reason is the money the people who introduced the insurance requirement get from the insurance companies. Might not come in cash, but maybe in the way of a new car or a nice watch.

Immigration told the German guy his AXA policy would not be acceptable, that are only accepting policies from the list of Thai companies. Even though he said his AXA policy was far superior 

[Skallywag]

17 hours ago, Genericnic said:

You are right. It is expensive. But as Sheryl noted in her prior posts, the required insurance is totally inadequate for anything remotely major. In my case, I have coverage from my retirement plan that covers me anywhere in the world with unlimited IPD and unlimited OPD coverage and the insurance doesn't expire - at least until I do. ???? 

David

Likely your only course of action would be to hire an "agent" if you need to renew a Non-O-A, or switch to Non-O visa.  Pacific cross does allow entry up to 75 years of age, though would be expensive > 100K baht a year.  Of course you can purchase more than the "required" amount

[travelerjim]

5 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

Immigration told the German guy his AXA policy would not be acceptable, that are only accepting policies from the list of Thai companies. Even though he said his AXA policy was far superior 

Must have AXA sign the form Certificate of International Insurance found on the official Thai O-A insurance link ..

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/

[jackdd]

3 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

Immigration told the German guy his AXA policy would not be acceptable, that are only accepting policies from the list of Thai companies. Even though he said his AXA policy was far superior 

Immigration officers won't read 100+ pages of a German insurance policy, to see if the details match.

If the guy would have had the paper which sums up the relevant information on one page it would probably have been accepted.

I'm aware that it might be difficult or maybe impossible to get this paper completed and signed by the foreign insurance company, but expecting an immigration officer to read a foreign insurance policy is also unreasonable.

[travelerjim]

4 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Likely your only course of action would be to hire an "agent" if you need to renew a Non-O-A, or switch to Non-O visa.  Pacific cross does allow entry up to 75 years of age, though would be expensive > 100K baht a year.  Of course you can purchase more than the "required" amount

Pacific Cross also has large deductible choices up to 300,000 Thai baht which will reduce annual premium about 50%. Ideal for those who have other health insurance 

.

[GeorgeCross]

4 minutes ago, travelerjim said:

Pacific Cross also has large deductible choices up to 300,000 Thai baht which will reduce annual premium about 50%. Ideal for those who have other health insurance 

.

deductibles are not acceptable for immigration accepted insurance policies

 

an applicant would need to switch to a non-o to get one of these and then that opens up the broader general insurance (incl. foreign) market as an option as well

 

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[Mango Bob]

1 minute ago, GeorgeCross said:

deductibles are not acceptable for immigration accepted insurance policies

 

an applicant would need to switch to a non-o to get one of these and then that opens up the broader general insurance (incl. foreign) market as an option as well

 

 

Yes, deductibles are acceptable.  You can get the Standard Extra Policy with a 300,000 deductible and a 50% discount on the cost of the policy.

[wgdanson]

11 hours ago, AAArdvark said:

Why "Go out of Thailand"?  Can't he get the insurance and just go to the local immigration?

Not according to the IO at Swampy. He is going to argue it out with IO at Jomtien today. I shall keep you informed.

[Mike Teavee]

53 minutes ago, marekm1 said:

Just entered Thailand on my Non – Immigrant Visa "O-A" issued in June this year. Used it before with no problem. I only got 30 days this time. Was told to get insurance, leave Thailand and re-enter again. Now I have two stamps in my passport, one valid to June next year and one 30 days stamp till next month.  I go to emigration office today to register and see what they say.  

Your original permission to stay until June 2020 will have been voided by you leaving the country without a re-entry permit (which you do not need & cannot get as you have a multi-entry visa with the enter before date still in the future).

 

So effectively you're in-country on a 30 day visa exempt stamp until you can sort it out, keep a close eye on the permission to stay until date as you will be on overstay if you don't sort it out or leave the country before that passes.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[Martyp]

I have a Pacific Cross policy. I don’t know if the deductible is acceptable or not. The answer is if you can get a certificate from Pacific Cross. That is all Immigration needs to see. Immigration is not going to examine your multi page Thai insurance policy.

[Langsuan Man]

I entered the Kingdom at Suvarnabhumi on the second year of my 0-A, on 01/11/2019.  O-A visa Issued at Los Angeles Consulate on 02/11/2018, valid until 01/11/2019, so I made it before the cut off and was given another "permission to stay" until 30/10/2020

 

At no time did the IO ask or mention insurance and two IO's processed me, since the one who actually stamped me in was being trained by the other, older officer.  This was "fast trak" of that makes any difference

 

But the insurance requirement is now showing up on the list of required documents for an O-A Visa on the NY Consulate Web site :

Quote

Copy of evidence stating that applicants have insurance as stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and health insurance of Thailand which has insurance coverage for outpatient not less than 40,000 Baht and for inpatient not less than 400,000 Baht. Please check < http://longstay.tgia.org> for more information regarding the insurance requirement.  

 And from the Embassy in Washington's web site:

Quote

Effective from 31 October 2019 , the applicant must be medically insured for the entire period of stay in Thailand with the following coverage:

– Outpatient benefit with a sum insured of not less than 40,000 THB, and

– Inpatient benefit with a sum insured of not less than  400,000 THB

The applicants must submit the following:

8.1. Health insurance policy document issued by a Thai or foreign insurance company, stating that the applicant is medically insured for the period and with coverage as mentioned above:

(a) In case of a foreign insurance company, the applicant must submit the original insurance policy document with 2 copies;

(b) In case of a Thai insurance company, the applicant must submit 2 copies of the insurance policy document or, if available, the original insurance policy document with 2 copies. A list of Thai insurance companies participating in the scheme can be found here: http://longstay.tgia.org

8.2. Foreign Insurance Certificate as stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and Health Insurance of Thailand, which must be completed, signed and stamped by the insurance company. The form can be downloaded here: Foreign Insurance Certificate Form

 

I find it incredulous and may end up being the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back on my continued "wintering" in Thailand if my FEP,  Blue Cross/ Blue Shield,  is not sufficient for the Thai Government as proof of insurance.  And it can only get worse and this insurance requirement will spread to all types of visa extensions. 

 

How are the military retirees going to stay, since I didn't see Tri-Care as one of the accepted insurances, as just one example ?

 

If there ever was ever any doubt that we are not wanted here, this ill conceived insurance fiasco is proof positive   

[TheAppletons]

37 minutes ago, travelerjim said:

Your first year of O-A includes multiple entry...check your visa...should say MULTIPLE on it

  Yes, we all know that.

 

  His point is that if he leaves and tries to re-enter on the original O-A, he will be subject to the insurance requirement.  If he can somehow obtain a re-entry permit, he would not be subject to the insurance requirement upon re-entry since he would be re-entering, using the re-entry permit, on an already granted permission to stay.  

[Peterw42]

So to summarize the thread so far.

 

It appears many reports of insurance being required for "any" OA visa entry, issue date is irreverent, its entry date (post 31/10) is being enforced.. A couple of reports saying insurance not required if entering on a re-entry permit (2nd year of OA stay or current extension of stay).

 

It would help to clarify things if people stopped referring to permission of stay and extension of stay, as "extending or renewing a visa"

This is one of the immigration issues where the correct terminology goes a long way towards understanding whats going on.

 

OA Visa entry = insurance required.

 

Re-entry permit entry = Insurance not required

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Your original permission to stay until June 2020 will have been voided by you leaving the country without a re-entry permit (which you do not need & cannot get as the enter before date on your Visa is still in the future).

Yes if you leave without a reentry permit a permission to stay is void. However I am virtually certain that you can get a reentry permit, (it is not a question that has been extensively researched as before this it was totally pointless, however I know of at least 1 case a few years ago when it was given) the real question is will an IO disregard the reentry permit and require the entry to be on the visa and so need insurance.

[brianj1964]

1 hour ago, marekm1 said:

Just entered Thailand on my Non – Immigrant Visa "O-A" issued in June this year. Used it before with no problem. I only got 30 days this time. Was told to get insurance, leave Thailand and re-enter again. Now I have two stamps in my passport, one valid to June next year and one 30 days stamp till next month.  I go to emigration office today to register and see what they say.  

So the 31st of October was a meaningless date, clearly anyone who has an O-A issued before that date then leaves and returns has to show insurance and your case proves it , sorry man

[Martyp]

5 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Yes if you leave without a reentry permit a permission to stay is void. However I am virtually certain that you can get a reentry permit, (it is not a question that has been extensively researched as before this it was totally pointless, however I know of at least 1 case a few years ago when it was given) the real question is will an IO disregard the reentry permit and require the entry to be on the visa and so need insurance.

Even if you get a re-entry permit while in the first year of an OA visa I would question whether that is any kind of guarantee to avoid the insurance requirement. Why bother with this line of strategy? Just accept that getting an OA was a mistake. Cancel or void the OA then go through the process to get a non-immigrant O.

[sometimewoodworker]

31 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

 

 

If there ever was ever any doubt that we are not wanted here, this ill conceived insurance fiasco is proof positive   

Nothing of the kind.

 

many countries require that long stay (and short stay) visitors have insurance. Thailand is just catching up and leaving a couple of rather large gaps.

Edited November 7, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[sometimewoodworker]

10 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Even if you get a re-entry permit while in the first year of an OA visa I would question whether that is any kind of guarantee to avoid the insurance requirement. Why bother with this line of strategy? Just accept that getting an OA was a mistake. Cancel or void the OA then go through the process to get a non-immigrant O.

I wasn’t suggesting that it was a good strategy or even one that would work. I pointed out the claim of not being able to get a reentry permit while there is a valid multi entry Visa was not correct for all immigration offices, as it was done (albeit completely pointlessly) in the past

 

There have been reports in the past of people being refused a new visa because there was already an active visa. So do you know how one CAN cancel or void a visa?

Edited November 7, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

or a permission to stay based on an original OA Visa, irrespective when it was issued, are from now on required to meet the new health-insurance requirement

Have you seen such a report? It would actually mean someone arriving holding a re-entry permit of course, but that in itself does not categorically mention the originating visa class... they would need to look at the actual Extension stamp, or transfer stamp. Just don't think I have read of that happening yet.

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I wasn’t suggesting that it was a good strategy or even one that would work. I pointed out the claim of not being able to get a reentry permit while there is a valid multi entry Visa was not correct.

 

There have been reports in the past of people being refused a new visa because there was already an active visa. So do you know how one CAN cancel or void a visa?

I stand corrected, I actually know you can get a multi re-entry permit whilst your current multi re-entry visa is still valid as I did it with my 12 month Multi Non-O (got a re-entry permit to keep my 90 day entry "Live" 1 month before the enter before date) so am living proof that I was wrong ???? 

 

However, I did ask the question what would happen if I came back before the enter before date, would the IO stamp me in for 90 days from that date (i.e. ignore the Multi Re-entry permit) or stamp me in to the date on the Multi Re-entry permit (i.e. ignore the still valid visa), & the answer was it was at the discretion of the IO, as I wanted the latter, I stayed out of Thailand until the enter before date on my Visa as passed.

 

So once again, I admit that I was wrong in saying you cannot get a multi re-entry permit while your visa is still "Live"

 

 

[Assurancetourix]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

many countries require that long stay visitors have insurance

How many countries accept long stay visitors on this earth ?

 

and what is a long stay visitor ?

180 days or more ?

 

and finally, how does a traveler pay for his plane ticket?
in liquid ?
Impossible in almost all countries;
therefore by credit card;
and who says bank card also says insurance;
moreover it can buy additional insurance from an outside provider, eg
http://www.allianz-assistance.co.th/corporate/what-we-do/medical-tourism/

But is this insurance in the list?

The problem in Thailand is that they require insurance to be Thai insurance;
insurance with a bunch of exclusions and above all much more expensive than any foreign insurance.
If it's not racket, what is it?

 

 

[Momofarang]

10 hours ago, Max69xl said:

If you really need it, it will probably be useless because of the low coverage. Paying a lower cost, in your case 45k just to have an insurance is not that smart imo. Then it's much better to change visa to an O with annual extensions when the O-A expires. 

Not so, in my case (age 67) I'd pay 26k in the first year, then it would go down as I wouldn't claim to go up later again. So that's about 2k monthly on top of the 18k I pay right now for the whole family. It would also enable me to get 100% coverage for the Hiso private rooms, as my current plan covers only 90% for such item. So, if I wasn't on marriage extensions (on a Non OA visa) I'd take it now since we can somewhat anticipate the future for retirees.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Momofarang

[Martyp]

12 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I wasn’t suggesting that it was a good strategy or even one that would work. I pointed out the claim of not being able to get a reentry permit while there is a valid multi entry Visa was not correct for all immigration offices, as it was done (albeit completely pointlessly) in the past

 

There have been reports in the past of people being refused a new visa because there was already an active visa. So do you know how one CAN cancel or void a visa?

That is a good question. I think I’ve read that you can do it. Maybe at immigration or maybe outside at a consulate. If you can’t then you just have to wait it out outside the country or accept the least cost insurance policy until the end of that first year. Once the OA is expired you are good to go outside to get a non-O. There is going to be a transition period for some people.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Martyp

[Momofarang]

1 minute ago, Assurancetourix said:

in liquid ?

[mosan]

1 hour ago, TheAppletons said:

  I may not have communicated my point effectively.

 

  I understand that insurance doesn't apply to a re-entry permit.  My concern would be that a person on a first year O-A visa - meaning you have as many re-entries as you want without obtaining a re-entry permit - may be denied by Immigration for a re-entry permit since it's not required. 

 

(I realize we've seen one instance in another thread where someone accidentally did this but that was well before the new law became enacted.)

I was the person that reported about leaving on an O-A that was issued to me in January 2019.  I made it a point to leave and re-enter early--my visa expires on the 23rd of January 2020.  I decided to avoid the confusion and start my second year early thereby giving me a whole year to see how things would go.  

 

Many people told me I would be OK because my visa was issued prior to 31 October.  I've been living here long enough to know that nothing is as it's "supposed to be"...

 

If everything smooths out by about 13 January 2020, then I can still exit and re-enter and not lose my 3 months--though at this stage I'm content to fly home to the US next October and return on a Non Immigrant O.  If insurance is required for all "Long Stay" extensions by then, so be it...

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, brianj1964 said:

I don't think insurance applies to re-entry however it would come into effect at extension time.

i still don't get why foreign policies aren't acceptable, surely the only reason for insurance is that the hospital gets paid and the person gets treatment, if we are forced to accept inferior insurance to satisfy immigration then it's a scam. 

Did Immigration actually come up with the list of thai insurances and denied O-A Visa holders insurances from foreign companies? It must have been the Health Department together with maybe another Department. The whole idea about a mandatory insurance for O-A Visa holders,came from the Health Department.

[Max69xl]

23 minutes ago, mosan said:

I was the person that reported about leaving on an O-A that was issued to me in January 2019.  I made it a point to leave and re-enter early--my visa expires on the 23rd of January 2020.  I decided to avoid the confusion and start my second year early thereby giving me a whole year to see how things would go.  

 

Many people told me I would be OK because my visa was issued prior to 31 October.  I've been living here long enough to know that nothing is as it's "supposed to be"...

 

If everything smooths out by about 13 January 2020, then I can still exit and re-enter and not lose my 3 months--though at this stage I'm content to fly home to the US next October and return on a Non Immigrant O.  If insurance is required for all "Long Stay" extensions by then, so be it...

Why fly all the way back home if the reason is to start over with a 90 days Non-Immigrant O? Why not wait until your visa expires and if the situation is the same as today apply for the Non-Immigrant O in Laos? 

[Sheryl]

12 hours ago, Max69xl said:

What's the point of having a 780k insurance and then 300k deductible? You get a cheaper insurance but the coverage is in most cases useless. 

 

For many people, who already have really good insurance which Imm won't accept, the second policy IS useless and they just want to keep it as cheap as possible.

 

Also, if taking out a second policy there is scope for the 2 policies to complement each other with one paying the deductible of the other.

 

Basically one is in a very different circumstance if already well insured and being forced to take a second policy t meet the &^% Imm requirement than if uninsured. In the latter circumstance it makes sense to try to get the best policy policy available from the listed companies.

[Max69xl]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

 

For many people, who already have really good insurance which Imm won't accept, the second policy IS useless and they just want to keep it as cheap as possible.

 

Also, if taking out a second policy there is scope for the 2 policies to complement each other with one paying the deductible of the other.

 

Basically one is in a very different circumstance if already well insured and being forced to take a second policy t meet the &^% Imm requirement than if uninsured. In the latter circumstance it makes sense to try to get the best policy policy available from the listed companies.

Imo it makes more sense not having a forced on crappy thai insurance at all if not needed. I mean, start all over with a Non-Immigrant O with 1 year extensions.