Seeking advice regarding landlord possibble dispute

[Hockeyhound]

Hi,

 

I'd really appreciate some advice. Where I am from I know exactly what I would do but I am not from Thailand where I live, so I'm open to hear thoughts on this matter.

 

On 6th November we received a letter from the waterboard advising us there was an issue with our water and they could not send us a bill and to contact them to make an appointment for them to visit.

 

We contacted them on 10th and they came the next day and advised we had used 20 times more water than normal.

 

We thought it was a bit odd as we cannot see how and there was no signs of leaks anywhere and water was running fine.

 

Inspector went round the house and located a quiet noise which was coming from under the tile outside in the back yard. He advised my wife the leak was under the tile and he was right.

 

We contacted the landlord and they had a guy open up the tiled area carefully, he did indeed find and solve a leaking pipe which had came loose from another connecting pipe.

 

Once this was sorted I asked my wife to ask them about the bill and my landlords wife stated they would share the bill with us.

 

The bill works out to about 6k baht. We use an average of 250 baht a month and can prove this as we keep all bills.

 

We have lived here in this house nearly 3 years. Never had 1 repair that we could not solve ourselves.

 

I disagree about paying anything towards this issue since we clearly did not cause the problem.

 

I could maybe make a gesture and pay double my water bill rate but this idea of sharing the cost has me a bit uneasy. Sets the wrong tone for any future similar issues.

 

Good landlord but has not done 1 baht of maintenance since we arrived.

 

Anyone got any input to add to this current issue I am facing?

 

Warm regards

Hound

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ukrules]

2 minutes ago, Hockeyhound said:

Good landlord but has not done 1 baht of maintenance since we arrived.

This is the opposite of a good 'landlord' and it's a sign of things to come in the future.

 

He will expect the house to be returned in exactly the same condition that it was the day you moved in.

 

They pretty much all attempt to do this.

 

 

 

[ChipButty]

Maintenance is not on the Agenda with Thai landlords, security deposits well thats another story

[ezzra]

With all fairness, the landlord should pay for the lot after all this his property and his pipes, but, if you're happy to continue staying there so act smart and try to negotiate a better outcome for you where you pay some money so both parties will end up feeling just and right of the amicable outcome...

[Crossy]

Am I correct in understanding that the 6k is the water bill not the bill for fixing the pipe?

 

The water people may be open to negotiation on the bill.

 

One time, some years back we had a pipe fail after our meter, the bill wasn't 6k but it was several times our normal usage. The water company (PWA) waived the charge! 

 

 

[worgeordie]

It is completely the landlords responsibility to pay for the water,

less your 250 Thb which is your average usage.

 

We had the same problem with one of our properties,the tenant

did not tell us about a leak,just turned up with a bill for a couple 

of months for 5,020 Thb, never bothered to inform us when he

received the first months bill for 2500 + Thb,which he must have 

knew something was wrong as his monthly bill is about 250 Thb,

so we paid the bill,as it was our responsibility, Oh! the joys of been

a landlord.

regards Worgeordie

 

[BestB]

Here is a thing, putting aside right from wrong.

 

If you do not pay half, ie 3000 baht, you may have a conflict and may have to move.

 

Is moving going to be cheaper and easier than paying 3000 baht?

 

Understand the principle of the matter, just saying putting that aside which option works better for you?

 

Now onto legal side of things, it is landlord responsibility but landlord could also say, it was your fault for not knowing and not reporting it earlier, even though you could not have known, but again i am just saying what his/her argument would be.

 

So bottom line, paying 3000 and continue living or refuse to pay and move, moving costs and inconvenience,

 

 

[chilly07]

It is so easy to check your meter when everything is turned off!

You should do this regularly as a matter of course and not wait until you have received a high bill. Also leaks can be clearly heard at night especially if you have a pump.

The water company worked this out remotely! Your tenancy should have a clause about reporting leaks in good time. I think your landlord is being generous in sharing the bill!

[sevenhills]

Yes the landlord should pay the difference or negotiate with the water company and there is a very easy fix if they do not want to give your security deposit back when you leave. Just tell him no problem, I will be going to the Tax department to inform them of my stay at your property. I bet he and most don't pay any taxes on the rental. I bet then you will get a full refund back.

[Sheryl]

8 hours ago, BestB said:

Here is a thing, putting aside right from wrong.

 

If you do not pay half, ie 3000 baht, you may have a conflict and may have to move.

 

Is moving going to be cheaper and easier than paying 3000 baht?

 

Understand the principle of the matter, just saying putting that aside which option works better for you?

 

Now onto legal side of things, it is landlord responsibility but landlord could also say, it was your fault for not knowing and not reporting it earlier, even though you could not have known, but again i am just saying what his/her argument would be.

 

So bottom line, paying 3000 and continue living or refuse to pay and move, moving costs and inconvenience,

 

 

Agree with the above but try first to negotiate with the Water authority on the bill.

[khunPer]

8 hours ago, BestB said:

Here is a thing, putting aside right from wrong.

 

If you do not pay half, ie 3000 baht, you may have a conflict and may have to move.

 

Is moving going to be cheaper and easier than paying 3000 baht?

 

Understand the principle of the matter, just saying putting that aside which option works better for you?

 

Now onto legal side of things, it is landlord responsibility but landlord could also say, it was your fault for not knowing and not reporting it earlier, even though you could not have known, but again i am just saying what his/her argument would be.

 

So bottom line, paying 3000 and continue living or refuse to pay and move, moving costs and inconvenience,

Agree, sometimes relative small money can solve a big problems in Thailand, even it's against a farang's principles.

 

The landlord probably think they have been kind when offer to share the bill. Is 3,000 baht worth a conflict – and yes, I know 3,000 baht is a relative sum that can be more money for some, than others – I have several times avoided things to become a problem by paying relative small amounts, I used to re-calculate to my home country currency and say "so what", and in the long term won by doing it.

[Straight8]

9 hours ago, BestB said:

Here is a thing, putting aside right from wrong.

 

If you do not pay half, ie 3000 baht, you may have a conflict and may have to move.

 

Is moving going to be cheaper and easier than paying 3000 baht?

 

Understand the principle of the matter, just saying putting that aside which option works better for you?

 

Now onto legal side of things, it is landlord responsibility but landlord could also say, it was your fault for not knowing and not reporting it earlier, even though you could not have known, but again i am just saying what his/her argument would be.

 

So bottom line, paying 3000 and continue living or refuse to pay and move, moving costs and inconvenience,

 

 

Don't listen to this advice.

 

Remember, if you bend now & pay the half, you will be forever paying at least half for everything if not all of it. 

 

[BestB]

47 minutes ago, Straight8 said:

Don't listen to this advice.

 

Remember, if you bend now & pay the half, you will be forever paying at least half for everything if not all of it. 

 

Yes , listen to his advice. Stand your ground, do not pay, get kicked out, spend 10000-20000 on moving and then lose your deposit as well as landlord will deduct the whole amount of 6000.

 

real voice of reason here????????

[scubascuba3]

ask landlord to explain why you should pay half (when it's totally his fault). He won't be able to pin it on you. Problem is they never think things through.

 

If he forces you to pay start looking for a new house

[4MyEgo]

On 11/19/2019 at 9:23 AM, Hockeyhound said:

We have lived here in this house nearly 3 years. Never had 1 repair that we could not solve ourselves.

This in itself tells a story, I would suspect that you have been a model tenant and have also paid rent on time and in advance. 

 

On 11/19/2019 at 9:23 AM, Hockeyhound said:

Once this was sorted I asked my wife to ask them about the bill and my landlords wife stated they would share the bill with us.

In the 90's I was a property manager with a portfolio of 400 odd properties and if a landlord was inclined to step outside the legislation, he/she would get a backhander from me, so to speak.

 

I am sure laws here in Thailand for tenants are somewhat lacking, that said, from a legal perspective I wouldn't hesitate to say that the landlord is responsible for the pipes, and you the water usage.

 

Now if you roll over and pay the bill or part thereof, well you deserve what you get, i.e. another landlord bending over a tenant and getting away with it, that said, you aren't really dealing dealing with the landlord, moreso his wife, which is a mistake.

 

What I would do, and I will say this, it's not the money, it's the principal, sure everybody is saying forget the principal, pay it, or negotiate it with the waterboard or the landlord, but I disagree, being a man of principals.

 

Tell your wife to speak to the landlord, not his wife and say, your wife told me xyz, and I spoke to my husband and he said he pays for the water usage and will continue to do so, not for any broken pipes or repairs to any broken pipes that cause water leakage, and that he said it is best that you talk to the water board as it is a matter between you and the water board to negotiate according "to law", because the broken pipe caused more than usual water that we pay for that cause the water to escape, therefore he doesn't see why he should have to pay more than the normal usage, because if the pipe wasn't leaking, this wouldn't have happened, and of course if he knew there was a leak he would have advised you to fix it, but he didn't know that there was a leak, so he cannot be responsible, and tell your wife to MAN UP, otherwise they will walk all over you.

 

Sure size it all up, example:

 

1) You have lived at the property for 3 years, how long would it be vacant if you left ?

If vacant for a while, no doubt it will cost him with the property being vacant, and no doubt repairs/maint...

 

If they don't accept it, stop paying rent and see how things go, if nothing is sorted till the outstanding rent is equal to the rental security/bond, then give them notice that you are vacating, then find alternative accommodation and let them chase you for anything outstanding.

 

If they ever catch up with you, then negotiate what you deem is fair, otherwise see them in court, take lots of dated photos when you vacate and have some witnesses there at the time who would be prepared to attend court.

 

Best of luck

Edited November 19, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

11 hours ago, BestB said:

Yes , listen to his advice. Stand your ground, do not pay, get kicked out, spend 10000-20000 on moving and then lose your deposit as well as landlord will deduct the whole amount of 6000.

 

real voice of reason here????????

Would you like to rent my place, I need another sucker ????

[BestB]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Would you like to rent my place, I need another sucker ????

Sure. Seeing how you do not understand thailand I would love to, most likely will stay for free for at least 1 year

[Straight8]

19 hours ago, BestB said:

Yes , listen to his advice. Stand your ground, do not pay, get kicked out, spend 10000-20000 on moving and then lose your deposit as well as landlord will deduct the whole amount of 6000.

 

real voice of reason here????????

And you really think that won't be the start of things going south.

 

Bet you're one of those the Thais see coming from a mile away.

[Straight8]

6 hours ago, BestB said:

Sure. Seeing how you do not understand thailand I would love to, most likely will stay for free for at least 1 year

The ever professional of all things Thailand. They must love you no doubt.

[BestB]

1 hour ago, Straight8 said:

The ever professional of all things Thailand. They must love you no doubt.

Who is "they" ?

[richard_smith237]

23 hours ago, chilly07 said:

It is so easy to check your meter when everything is turned off!

You should do this regularly as a matter of course and not wait until you have received a high bill. Also leaks can be clearly heard at night especially if you have a pump.

The water company worked this out remotely! Your tenancy should have a clause about reporting leaks in good time. I think your landlord is being generous in sharing the bill!

Sanctimonious much ?

 

Has anyone ever checked their own water meter? I've been living here over 20 years (various Apartments and houses) I've never once checked my water meter, yet alone check it regularly. 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, BestB said:

Sure. Seeing how you do not understand thailand I would love to, most likely will stay for free for at least 1 year

You wouldn't get in, in the first place !

 

I know exactly how Thailand works, and I know there is something similar to the Residency Tenancy Tribunal that we had back home, or the Department of Fair Trading if you like, they are there to protect tenants, the later consumers, here they are known as the Office of the Consumer Protection Board.

 

Once they wipe the floor with the landlord, he could of course seek retaliatory action and serve a notice to evict the tenant, but then again, if your weak, as your suggesting, then others will have their way with you then ?  

 

I have always stood my ground and had the law back me, regardless of country, but then again, each to their own oi.

 

http://www.ocpb.go.th/ocpb_eng/main.php?filename=index___EN

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by 4MyEgo