Time it needs to sue a co-owner not paying maintenance

[zappalot]

Does anyone know how long it takes to sue a co-owner who did not pay his maintenance fees for several years?

[PatOngo]

Depends on their influence and connections! If they have either, the answer is...…...forever!

[zappalot]

Yes I know about all the corruption going on. We have several cases and one of them  is someone with influence/connections and so far any lawyer who heard the name refused to take the case.

 

But let's say there is a case of just a normal  person without any influence and without any connections.  How long might it need until the apartment is set for the government  intended auctioning process?

[Matzzon]

I am sure many people have tried before you. I will assume you are foreigner and the co-owner is Thai. That would probably put the time estimation somewhere between a lifetime and forever. Sorry, It´s not a joke. Just taken from some of my own experiences. 

[CharlieH]

Judging purely by what I have seen and not experienced you can count on years rather than months. If that's any help.

[zappalot]

4 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I will assume you are foreigner and the co-owner is Thai. 

Why would I want to sue? This is the responsibility of the juristic person of a condominium and they are Thai companies to 100%

[smutcakes]

5 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I am sure many people have tried before you. I will assume you are foreigner and the co-owner is Thai. That would probably put the time estimation somewhere between a lifetime and forever. Sorry, It´s not a joke. Just taken from some of my own experiences. 

Obviously limited experience as it would be the JP (A Thai entity) suing the Co-owner rather than an individual, Thai or Farang.

[Matzzon]

11 minutes ago, zappalot said:

Why would I want to sue? This is the responsibility of the juristic person of a condominium and they are Thai companies to 100%

That put everything in another perspective. You did not write much in your start of the thread. However, I will take years, rather than month like CharlieH already posted.

You can just take a simple scenario that happens many times. The person that are beeing sued, does not show up when the collection of information for the case starts. he will be summoned about 3-4 times, which with periods of time between can take only that about a year. Let´s say that the case hits the court anyway. Then the countrt will summon him. If he do not show up there, they will do the same for a low value case like this. He is not showing up after summoned 3-4 times, it has gone another year.**

After that the police might be involved trying to find the person. By then he have been given time to go underground, at the same time as the will to find him from the police will be minimal without a big check coming their way. Maybe another year or two. After that the cases starts. Yeah if you are lucky around 5 years.

[Matzzon]

17 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Obviously limited experience as it would be the JP (A Thai entity) suing the Co-owner rather than an individual, Thai or Farang.

And you wrote that based on the information the OP gave after I posted my reply, right? Otherwise you would have been quicker?

What you find obvious is laughable.

[smutcakes]

3 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

And you wrote that based on the information the OP gave after I posted my reply, right? Otherwise you would have been quicker?

What you find obvious is laughable.

Its a condominium, there is no contractual relationship for one Co-owner to sue another for non payment of CAM fees. Its a relationship between the Juristic Person and individual CO-owners, the only entity that can sue is the JPM. Its simple condominium law. I am sure it is very obvious to anyone who has been involved in any level of condominium management, committees etc.

 

You said from your experiences, but the fact you do not know this suggests they are limited.

 

Co-owner is a word used in Thailand which relates specifically to Juristic Condominiums.

[CharlieH]

The usual tactic, and this is from experience is you process the paperwork, it gets dodged repeatedly then at the 11 the hour a piece of paper emerges that the item or asset has already been transferred /sold privately to a family member and therefore no longer attainable or relevant, only the debt remains and the person on paper has nothing to forfeit and no money.

That's based on typical disputes don't know if that might apply in all circumstances.

 

[zappalot]

@CharlieH: A condominium can only be sold if the maintenance fees are paid confirmed by a letter of the management of a condominium building. You cannot just change the name in the Channot by yourself, not even for a family member. In our building even the criminal with connections  had to pay the outstanding balance first before he could sell parts of his property.

[CharlieH]

2 minutes ago, zappalot said:

@CharlieH: A condominium can only be sold if the maintenance fees are paid confirmed by a letter of the management of a condominium building. You cannot just change the name in the Channot by yourself, not even for a family member. In our building even the criminal with connections  had to pay the outstanding balance first before he could sell parts of his property.

Hence my "all circumstances" comment.

 

Thanks, appreciate the info ????

[smutcakes]

10 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

The usual tactic, and this is from experience is you process the paperwork, it gets dodged repeatedly then at the 11 the hour a piece of paper emerges that the item or asset has already been transferred /sold privately to a family member and therefore no longer attainable or relevant, only the debt remains and the person on paper has nothing to forfeit and no money.

That's based on typical disputes don't know if that might apply in all circumstances.

 

Hi Charlie, to transfer ownership of a Condo unit the seller needs a debt free certificate issued by the JPM, without it no lands department would change name of ownership.

 

It would possible a JPM wold issue this wrongly, but given the simplicity of proving wrong doing and the lack of real upside for a JPM to do it, i think it would be a very unusual situation where a JPM did issue a debt free cert incorrectly.

 

I am not sure where you have seen the example you have mentioned, it does not sound plausible for a condominium.

[CharlieH]

5 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Hi Charlie, to transfer ownership of a Condo unit the seller needs a debt free certificate issued by the JPM, without it no lands department would change name of ownership.

 

It would possible a JPM wold issue this wrongly, but given the simplicity of proving wrong doing and the lack of real upside for a JPM to do it, i think it would be a very unusual situation where a JPM did issue a debt free cert incorrectly.

 

I am not sure where you have seen the example you have mentioned, it does not sound plausible for a condominium.

Hence the last two lines of of my post.

[heybuz]

I sued a Thai for a different reason it took 18months from start until I got paid.

[CH1961]

22 hours ago, CharlieH said:

that the item or asset has already been transferred /sold privately to a family member and therefore no longer attainable or relevant

You do not own a condo, do you? 

At landoffice you have to present from JP the affirmation to not have any pending payments. 

So it it nit possible to transfer a condo with pending common fees or other expenses. 

[Delight]

According to the JPM in the building where I live -it takes 3 court appearances. The non -paying co -owner will be given every chance to pay

If no payment then the JPM will be allowed  to sell the condo at  auction. The JPM is also allowed to cover all costs.

If the co -owners shows or does not show at the court -this is irrelevant.

If the costs total come to say 1M Baht. The  condo will have a sales price of 1 million Baht.

In practice the co -owners always pays.

 

It can however be very tricky if the foreign co -owner has died-leaving no -will. Thai law has no provision for this scenario.

[Caine]

Simple answer never buy or deal with the little <deleted>s.

[khunPer]

On 11/25/2019 at 5:44 AM, zappalot said:

Does anyone know how long it takes to sue a co-owner who did not pay his maintenance fees for several years?

Don't know about co-owner, but in general it can take long time suing for lack of payment; it takes quite some time before it can be brought for a court.

 

Lawyers in Thailand normally wish payment up front, and you need to keep their attention on the case, after you have paid them. So a major consideration is – as always in financial civil cases – is the amount worth the risk of the costs for legal fees; and even if you after some years win, will the debitor be able to pay you, as it will cost you more fees to chase money or values.

 

I talk from experience in Thailand.

[Cricky]

I thought they  removed utilities like water meter etc until the fees were paid.

[natway09]

You have asked the sixty four dollar question.

I live in a condo where 28 owners have not paid outgoings for 15 years.

Obviously not occupied as no water nor electricity but the Juristic Committee have been wanting to obtain an order to resell, take their unpaid portion from proceeds & then dispose of.

Still no luck getting anywhere for 12 years.

[ukbiker]

On 11/25/2019 at 12:26 PM, Matzzon said:

That put everything in another perspective. You did not write much in your start of the thread. However, I will take years, rather than month like CharlieH already posted.

You can just take a simple scenario that happens many times. The person that are beeing sued, does not show up when the collection of information for the case starts. he will be summoned about 3-4 times, which with periods of time between can take only that about a year. Let´s say that the case hits the court anyway. Then the countrt will summon him. If he do not show up there, they will do the same for a low value case like this. He is not showing up after summoned 3-4 times, it has gone another year.**

After that the police might be involved trying to find the person. By then he have been given time to go underground, at the same time as the will to find him from the police will be minimal without a big check coming their way. Maybe another year or two. After that the cases starts. Yeah if you are lucky around 5 years.

This is not strictly true. We've just gone through the process in our condo.The steps we followed where,

1/ Letters sent to the last known address of the co owner informing them of the amount owed and if not paid with interest within 6 months the case would be put in the hands of the court. Bear in mind if its a Thai. co owner the case must be heard in the home province of the said owner, that's why its easier to attack farrang's as the home province is the location of the condo.

2/ If the bill is not paid in the said time a summons is issued which takes approximately 5 to 6 months to come to court

3/ If the sum is still unpaid by the court hearing and the summons is unchallenged the judge will make a ruling and the room will be sold at a government auction which can take another 6 to 9 months.

Our condo committee have just been through this process, we took 9 rooms to court 4 paid on the day of the hearing and the cases where dropped, 4 of the summonses where uncontested and these rooms have been sent for auction with the dept being paid from the revenue the rooms generate, and 1 Thai person contested the summons stating he did'nt have the money to pay, he was given till the end of 2019 to pay or his condo would be sold. All this happened in June this year and we are still waiting for the auction date. 

We found a solicitor who was prepared to work on a commission basis of 10% of monies recovered and 20% if the case went to court.     

  

 

[sunnyboy2018]

About two years max. In my condo several units are up for sale to covet debts. A warning notice us pinned to the door after which the units are auctioned off. Its a common enough procedure. The sooner it is initiated the better.