Planning to get married need advise re visa/wife's property rights

[localexpat]

Sorry if I have posted this in the wrong forum, it is partly related to Thaivisa.

I have lived in Thailand for about 35 years using work permits etc, now on a retirement visa.

I have been with my girlfriend for 35 years and have not got married as I heard she will lose rights to own land / property.

My girlfriend has a house and small fruit farm in her name presently.

My first question is what rights do Thai ladies have when they marry a foreigner.

Can they keep ownership of land and houses they have owned prior to getting married?

Can they own new property or land after they are married. 

All land and houses prior to and following getting married would be 100% in her name

Finally is it straightforward to change my visa from retirement to married visa?

For ‌info I am 67 not married before

Any advice most appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[lopburi3]

Yes she can keep property and buy new property but for new they will want a paper that funds belong to her (no joint property ownership allowed - although you could inherit and sell).  There is no need to change you extension of stay from retirement to married unless you want to do so - but you can do so.  

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, localexpat said:

I have been with my girlfriend for 35 years and have not got married as I heard she will lose rights to own land / property.

That law was rescinded 2 decades ago when the 1997 constitution went in effect.

 

7 minutes ago, localexpat said:

Finally is it straightforward to change my visa from retirement to married visa?

You can change the reason for your extension of stay from retirement to marriage near the end of your current extension. Not hard to do but be sure you do not show enough financial proof for retirement.

[The Fat Controller]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

20 hours ago, localexpat said:

I have been with my girlfriend for 35 years and have not got married as I heard she will lose rights to own land / property.

That law was rescinded 2 decades ago when the 1997 constitution went in effect.

 

Haha, didn't you notice this had changed in the last 20 odd years ?

 

If you plan to marry, you'll need to do a bit a research on getting the correct documents ready too.

 

Nothing changes for your lady, she can even elect to keep using the same name, her marriage will be recorded on the national database as such.

 

What does change for you, is that you can inherit her estate, either in full with a proper will or part if she dies intestate.

[localexpat]

Hello 

 

Many thanks for your feedback to date, very interesting and very useful.

 

Thaivisa forum is really great, this kind of advise would cost me about 20, 000 Baht with a good Law firm.

 

Any other input appreciated

 

Regards

[Toscano]

I am married to a Thai woman who owns her house and farmland , marrying a foreigner hasn't affected any of her rights .

I think it may help that she has kept her own previous Thai married name which I liked and thought appropriate living in Thailand .

I have paid for major renovation to her house , helped to build another house for her son and Ex husband , my good friend .

I also gave money to buy additional land . My wife has set her son up as an agricultural contractor , two big tractors , all necessary machinery , 3 massive trailers and she owns everything . I originally had a marriage visa , but changed to retirement visa . The Marriage visa has an insufferable load of paper work that increases every year , many immigration officers hate it and give people a hard time .

The retirement visa gives the option of having a simple Thai marriage and not an Amphur marriage . In the event that things don't work out you can pack your bags and leave , but still continue to live in Thailand . I don't recommend marriage to a Thai woman at all , if you and your girlfriend have been happy together for so many years why change anything , I have a wealthy Australian friend whose been with his girlfriend about 16 years and never married . He has taken care of her whole family and educated 4 children .

[overherebc]

2 hours ago, localexpat said:

Hello 

 

Many thanks for your feedback to date, very interesting and very useful.

 

Thaivisa forum is really great, this kind of advise would cost me about 20, 000 Baht with a good Law firm.

 

Any other input appreciated

 

Regards

The only real difference is the financial requirement for each extension.

Basically

Retired  800,000 tied up for most of the year or 65,000 a month income.

Married

400,000 or 40,000 a moth income.

Re law company it would probably cost more than 20,000 and would most likely be wrong. ????

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by overherebc

[problemfarang]

She will loose no rights if her name is on the land owner paper. If her name is on it alone, thats hers, thats it.

 

Now, this im not very sure but for you, you have no rights on those things. Because she had them before married with you. But everything you and she owns will be 50-50 after marriage. Of course this can be adjust with some contract with your future wife.

 

Example: We have just bought 468 square-meter land with my wife in khon kaen. The name on the land is hers. BUT the day we finish our payment the landlord and some people from the government will ask the name on the paper, thats the only time you can put your name on it. Again if im not mistaken it will be 49-51 though. You are still farang and cant own more than a thai logic. Thats how our car and house is also.

 

If you cannot do that, and if you need to prove that you paid the house, keep every bank transactions you did. Hire a very good lawyer, you can get at least half back.

 

If you are buying ( which we just did a week ago) a new house using bank credit, and if you want your name on it from the start... you must pay at least half of the house in cash. 

 

I hope these infos help you... good luck

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by problemfarang

[The Fat Controller]

@problemfarang

 

I see you have corrected your mistakes !

Edited December 7, 2019 by The Fat Controller
Reply now not needed as previous poster corrected mistakes

[lopburi3]

13 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

Again if im not mistaken it will be 49-51 though. You are still farang and cant own more than a thai logic. Thats how our car and house is also.

I believe you are mistaken - the land will belong to your wife AFAIK.

[overherebc]

19 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

She will loose no rights if her name is on the land owner paper. If her name is on it alone, thats hers, thats it.

 

Now, this im not very sure but for you, you have no rights on those things. Because she had them before married with you. But everything you and she owns will be 50-50 after marriage. Of course this can be adjust with some contract with your future wife.

 

Example: We have just bought 468 square-meter land with my wife in khon kaen. The name on the land is hers. BUT the day we finish our payment the landlord and some people from the government will ask the name on the paper, thats the only time you can put your name on it. Again if im not mistaken it will be 49-51 though. You are still farang and cant own more than a thai logic. Thats how our car and house is also.

 

If you cannot do that, and if you need to prove that you paid the house, keep every bank transactions you did. Hire a very good lawyer, you can get at least half back.

 

If you are buying ( which we just did a week ago) a new house using bank credit, and if you want your name on it from the start... you must pay at least half of the house in cash. 

 

I hope these infos help you... good luck

 

Every car I've had has been in my name, same for my wife.

She bought the land and house with her money after we married.

The will is written and if she dies before me I can stay as long as I want to in the house although I've heard, but don't know 100%, that only means in reality 1 year then it should be sold.

That last point I would like clarified.

[The Fat Controller]

@overherebc

 

Here you go !

 

http://www.thailand-lawyer.com/foreigner-inheritance.html

[overherebc]

3 minutes ago, The Fat Controller said:

@overherebc

 

Here you go !

 

http://www.thailand-lawyer.com/foreigner-inheritance.html

So basically you have one year to sell it or sign it over.

[oldcpu]

Dependent on the investments of your wife, my understanding is she may have a lot more paperwork to do, if you register your marriage in Thailand.

 

I was told that if she goes to buy/sell property, she may need your signature for some legal aspects of this.  Again, I've been told if she goes for a loan, she may need your signature (as her husband) for aspects of the loan approval.  I've also been told if she is on the Board of Director's of a company, she could also have additional complications wrt requiring husband's signature for things.  I've also been told in some of those noted cases, dozens of pages may need to be signed/husband's initials for some legal things she needs to do, which could be an annoyance.

 

Of course the odds of those specifics affecting most on this forum are likely slim, ... but it could be a factor.

 

I know it is a factor for myself ... Where we have our marriage registered in country(s) in North America and Europe, but not in Thailand (yet) - where the above are considerations for my Thai wife and she does not yet want to register our marriage in Thailand (complicating my life wrt Health Insurance).

Edited December 7, 2019 by oldcpu

[The Fat Controller]

I am British.

 

We married at the amphur in Thailand.

 

She declared she would continue to use her maiden name.

 

She has opened bank accounts, bought and sold cars and motorcycles without me having to sign any documents.

 

The only signature required from me was at the land office when she purchased land, that seems to be their requirements.

 

However that land can be inherited and judges DO take it into account as joint property in divorce cases if purchased during a marriage.

 

If you marry outside of Thailand, of course there will be translations and notarisations required and if your wife passed away before you register in Thailand, that could make inheritance rather problematic.

[problemfarang]

20 hours ago, The Fat Controller said:

@problemfarang

 

I see you have corrected your mistakes !

 

no idea what your talking, never mind

20 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

I believe you are mistaken - the land will belong to your wife AFAIK.

 

well my lawyer says different, i can put my name on it, but like i said cant have the full percentage. 51 goes to her so basically its her land but if we sell or else, i get 49 percent of it.

[userabcd]

18 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

 

no idea what your talking, never mind

 

well my lawyer says different, i can put my name on it, but like i said cant have the full percentage. 51 goes to her so basically its her land but if we sell or else, i get 49 percent of it.

It depends who paid for it and/or the asset ownership before marriage. Basically under current law you personally as an alien will never be able to own land.

Edited December 8, 2019 by userabcd

[lopburi3]

14 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

 

no idea what your talking, never mind

 

well my lawyer says different, i can put my name on it, but like i said cant have the full percentage. 51 goes to her so basically its her land but if we sell or else, i get 49 percent of it.

Are you sure that is not a company ownership?  That is often used as a work around to the law that foreigners cannot own land.  But as there are also laws that could negate such an agreement if determined company was set up to avoid that non foreign ownership law it is not 100%.  As said you can inherit property but you must sell within a year.

Edited December 8, 2019 by lopburi3

[problemfarang]

Just now, userabcd said:

It depends who paid for it and/or the asset ownership before marriage. Basically under current law you personally as an alien will never be able to own land.

 

hi,

you paid or not. you can put your name on the land but again as i said 51% is wife's. so yes you dont own the land but you can get money if you have your name on it. OR if your names not there, you can keep the bank transfer info which shows you paid for the land, you can again get some back

[The Fat Controller]

@problemfarang

 

Your edit whilst I was replying removed most of the inaccurate information, deny it if you will, but as I didn't screenshot the rubbish you spouted and now it's gone, you can pretend your original version was 100% correct, LOL !

 

Your lawyer is leading you up the garden path, only a Thai can OWN the land.

 

You can have a usufruct or lease, but that is the only way you can be on any of the paperwork.

[problemfarang]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Are you sure that is not a company ownership?  That is often used as a work around to the law that foreigners cannot own land.  But as there are also laws that could negate such an agreement if determined company was set up to avoid that non foreign ownership law it is not 100%.  As said you can inherit property but you must sell within a year.

 

hi,

this is what my lawyer told me: The day end of the payment, some ppl from government will come to do some paper work, that day if me and my wife says we want my name on it too than he can put my name BUT 51% goes to wife. So yes land is not mine but i can get some money from the land if things go bad.

[problemfarang]

3 minutes ago, The Fat Controller said:

@problemfarang

 

Your edit whilst I was replying removed most of the inaccurate information, deny it if you will, but as I didn't screenshot the rubbish you spouted and now it's gone, you can pretend your original version was 100% correct, LOL !

 

Your lawyer is leading you up the garden path, only a Thai can OWN the land.

 

You can have a usufruct or lease, but that is the only way you can be on any of the paperwork.

 

well, maybe you should read better than caring grammar. I said 51% goes to wife. Ohh if your talking about that, yes your right. i forgot to mention that.

dont worry im not a kid and not deny anything i said or write. Also.. you could try to be more.. calm down. thanks

FYI: my friend did the same thing.. i think 2-3 years ago. and thats how it is.

Edited December 8, 2019 by problemfarang

[The Fat Controller]

@localexpat

 

Sorry your thread has got a bit derailed by the bickering over this land issue.

 

However, marrying will but you in a position to inherit, make sure you both have wills !

 

All the best for the future.

[sometimewoodworker]

23 hours ago, overherebc said:

The will is written and if she dies before me I can stay as long as I want to in the house although I've heard, but don't know 100%, that only means in reality 1 year then it should be sold.

That last point I would like clarified.

The law says that the land needs to be sold/passed on to a Thai national within 1 year, though some people say that is 1 year from the grant of probate.
 

However the house does not need to be sold, you can retain ownership. This then is a little more complicated, a lease or Usufruct can make things a little less complicated.

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The law says that the land needs to be sold/passed on to a Thai national within 1 year, though some people say that is 1 year from the grant of probate.
 

However the house does not need to be sold, you can retain ownership. This then is a little more complicated, a lease or Usufruct can make things a little less complicated.

None of it really matters to us as we plan to move to uk in the next 12 months or so. Then it will most likely be 6/6 or 9/3 months-ish UK/TH after that. I was only asking about a point of Thai law on wife dying before husband.

 

[overherebc]

3 hours ago, problemfarang said:

 

hi,

you paid or not. you can put your name on the land but again as i said 51% is wife's. so yes you dont own the land but you can get money if you have your name on it. OR if your names not there, you can keep the bank transfer info which shows you paid for the land, you can again get some back

The only way you will get anything back is if you get divorced and when signing the divorce papers you agree terms on how things will be split.

If your wife dies before you and the land car etc is in her name her nearest relative will get all unless you can agree differently.

I would ask another lawyer and I still wouldn't trust him/her.

[The Fat Controller]

https://www.thailandlaw.org/intestate-succession-in-thailand.html

 

Moral of the story, make a watertight will !

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by The Fat Controller

[lopburi3]

10 minutes ago, overherebc said:

If your wife dies before you and the land car etc is in her name her nearest relative will get all unless you can agree differently.

As said above 50% goes to spouse if there are other living relatives - the other 50% split as outlined.  

[sometimewoodworker]

19 minutes ago, overherebc said:

The only way you will get anything back is if you get divorced and when signing the divorce papers you agree terms on how things will be split.

If your wife dies before you and the land car etc is in her name her nearest relative will get all unless you can agree differently.

I would ask another lawyer and I still wouldn't trust him/her.

That is not correct for assets acquired during marriage. Without a will It doesn’t matter who’s name is on the ownership documents, the surviving spouse still has a claim on a percentage. See the intestacy law referenced above.

[overherebc]

46 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is not correct for assets acquired during marriage. Without a will It doesn’t matter who’s name is on the ownership documents, the surviving spouse still has a claim on a percentage. See the intestacy law referenced above.

And if it ends up in a court battle how long do you think that will take and how much will it cost?