Ok, I feel this is the only place on the forum I can post this.

I need to point out that this is in no way a racial issue for me but, I feel that were Christians to try and do this in the heart of Islam, there would be all out disgrace and, war.

Ken Livingstone is planning to use British tax payer's money to build an

enormous mosque costing an estimated 100M in the docklands. What do you

think about it? Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a new

hospital or improved transport facilities??

BIGGER THAN ST PAULS!!!

The plan is for the mosque to be so big that people flying in from all

over the world for the 2012 Olympics will it see it as the biggest

landmark in London, bigger than St Pauls, Westminster Abbey or Wembley

Stadium

Take a second to cast your vote in The Evening Standard on-line poll to

determine public opinion about whether a mega mosque should be built

for the Olympics.

The vote so far is 56 % in favour.

It looks like the Muslim community is casting its vote in droves, and

as usual the Christians are burying their heads in the sand....

This is London Vote Link.

Feel free to pass this on.

redrus

Unelected quango to decide on mosque for Olympic site

By Mira Bar-Hillel, Evening Standard 27.09.06

A proposal for a controversial £100 million mosque next to the Olympic Village will be decided by an unelected quango.

A decision on whether it gets the go- ahead will rest not with Newham's elected councillors but with the London Thames Gateway Development Corporation.

Plans by the Muslim sect Tablighi Jamaat to build the mosque have aroused concern as the group has been accused of drawing young men towards an extremist version of Islam.

Although no formal planning application has yet been made, the proposal has stirred up substantial argument.

The public will be consulted - as with other planning applications - but if the corporation approves the proposal there will be no right of appeal.

However, if the quango rejects the scheme Tablighi Jamaat can appeal to the Government.

Dr Patrick Sookhdeo, director of the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity, said: "The corporation has already said that the new mosque will make West Ham a 'cultural and religious destination'.

"This will be nothing less than an Islamic quarter of our capital city. But has anyone asked the people of West Ham? The non-Muslims? The moderate Muslims? The Muslim women?"

Tony Arbour, Conservative spokesman on planning for the London Assembly, said: "For this major decision to be taken by a quango is undemocratic. Local residents have been shut out of the process."

When the proposal emerged in July it was envisaged that the first phase of the mosque alone would accommodate 10,000 worshippers.

The ultimate number, including visitors, could be as many as 70,000.

Abdul Kalik, the project director, said the mosque was intended as an "Islamic landmark".

"It will be a long, undulating building borrowing ideas from nomadic structures and tented cities," he said.

The mosque would be illuminated at night by millions of translucent tiles and surrounded by an "Islamic garden, transposed on to modernday London", according to the architects Mangera Yvars.

The corporation is a public body, funded by Ruth Kelly's Department for Communities and Local Government. She appoints its independent board of directors.

Newham council confirmed: "The decision will be made by the corporation."

Tablighi Jamaat has been described by French intelligence as "an antechamber of fundamentalism", something the group denies.

Although it has never been implicated in any act of terror, two of the 7/7 bombers, Mohammad-Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, regularly visited its headquarters in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire. It has close links with the Wahhabi fundamentalist strand of Islam practised by the Saudi royal family.

Applications which go to the corporation instead of the local council include those for 50 or more houses and flats, large developments of more than 2,500 square metres of f loor space or one hectare, development on green belt or "metropolitan open land" and transport infrastructure.

Reader views (29)

Here's a sample of the latest views published.

I think the Muslim population should have as many Mosques as they want and these Mosques should be as big as they want - but let them fund them themselves. This is an extraordinary amount of money to be spending on a single percent of the population; a minority yet to prove that it has the capability, willpower and hierarchical system of management to monitor its own members - Finsbury Park Mosque being a prime example of inappropriate spending of public money.

- James, London

Where in this story does it say that the 100 million pounds is coming from public coffers? Would members of the public have a right of appeal if the planning application was heard by the local council? The development corporation may be a public body but this story doesn't claim that they're paying for the mosque, only deciding whether it gets planning permission.

- Mark, Luton, UK

Why do people in high places always think up some stupid way of offending religous and ethnic communities? Spend the money on what will benefit all - like funding a new childrens ward that won't close after 12 months.

- S Nash, England

To spend public money on an exclusive building is not right. If they built a large Interfaith place of worship - I would support it - as being Inclusive, as long as it had proper disabled access/facilities too...

- Karen Angus, Shetland, UK

What the hel_l is this country coming to? I'm no racist, but we are just handing this country over to everyone else and forgetting our roots and the people of this fine country. What about the hospitals, school, police and fire services that could benefit from all this money?

- Simon Osborne, London

ý100m is a large chunk of money - if you're going to build a mosque, you will have to build other religious building as well. This money should be used for other purposes!

- Mark, Bolton

Why in a Country that is multicultural, do we need to spend ý100 million on one religion when the majority of poeple in this country are not muslim?

Surely the money would be far better spent on finding illegal immigrants or using the money to bring different cultures together, not alienating one religon, making them a target? I'm sure the health service wouldn't say no to ý100 million either.

- Jamie, Salisbury

I dont mind a mosque being built....but ý100 million you must be joking. Surely this money could be used in much more useful ways. Transport, hospitals etc. If the muslims want this they can pay for it themselves. And anyway, knowing designers today....its most likely going to be an eyesore for local residents.

- Erin, Chester

I just can't believe that ý100m would be spent on a mosque. It should be spent on hospitals, old people's homes, homes for the homeless, council houses for people who cannot afford a home. Send money to help the starving. So many ways that money could be spent for much better reasons. Why a mosque anyway, this is England and if we had to have such a structure I should think in this Christian country it would be another new St Paul's or a very large Art gallery? I do not want a mosque and neither do many people.

- Anji Jennings, Cheltenham, UK

Why do we need the largest feature of London to be of a foreign nature? Are we forgetting we are England?

- Darren King, Birmingham

If this proposed Mosque is being considered using public money then that is a disgrace. Planning permission for Christian churches is being turned down where the congregations are willing to pay the building costs. The world has gone mad!

- Mrs Linda Courtney, York England

It's strange how the government can find ý100m to spare on "controversial" projects, such as Millenium dome and now this Mosque, but are always short of money for hospitals, prisons, and schools.

- Pete Wilson, Heighington Co. Durham

Get the priorities correct - put our money to better use - into education, our so called NHS, the homelessness, prisons...

- Sadie, Grantham, Lincs

Where has anyone actually read that the Mayor plans to spend ý100m on this project? I've searched every news search engine I know of - and I've not found a single reference to any public money going into the proposed mosque.

The campaign against the plans are either ill-informed or politically-motivated against Ken Livingstone.

- Rob, Brighton UK

Taxpayerýs money should not be spent on large developments for any religion or faith. This amount of money should be used on much needed resources, such as building hospitals or schools that will serve all of the community.

- F Cox, Thurrock, Essex

Not against the building of a mosque, but it certainly should not be bigger than St. Pauls or any of the London landmarks.

- Susan Leeder, England

I don't mind the Muslims having a mosque but they should pay for it themselves and the people of Newham should have a chance to voice their opinion.

- Alan, East Sussex

Please build better transport, schools or hospitals.

- Dianne Land, London, England

Taxpayer's money is not used to build Christian churches - even the maintenance is down to congregations, the Church's own investments and charity. Why should public money be used to build places of worship for other faiths? Let's focus on schools and hospitals please.

- Nigel, London, UK

This should definitely NOT go ahead - put the money into the NHS. Or even build a prison. They are always saying there aren't enough spaces for criminals, build this instead - it would be a help to everyone to get criminals off the streets!

- Paula, London

Our Tax money should not be spent on religious projects of any faith, but should go towards education and health of the general population.

- Graham P Abel, Chichester,England

Tony Blair is quite happy to bang on about the free market, local democracy and choice when it suits his messianic ideals. Likewise, getting people out to vote seems to be his number one concern whenever there's an election. Now we have people in Newham begging for a chance to express a choice and vote and they're being excluded from the process.

Personally, I think the building looks quite nice, and if it provides a positive place for young muslims to congregate and worship, then that's all well and good. There is a worry that extremists might try and take over, but it's such a public forum that I doubt they'd make much of an impression. I'd be more worried about the spread of Islamic schools than this mosque.

Howver, the fact remains that the people of Newham want to choose, and it's incumbent upon the government and Newham council to stop running scared and give people the vote they want.

- Jamie, London

I don't understand why all this money (tax money) is being wasted on things that are not needed, there are more important things to be spending money on! If they need to build something it should be used for everyone.

- Jemma Slade , Christchurch Dorset

I do not agree with the proposal, as there are definitely much needier causes that I would like my money spent on. This needs to be put to a public vote; this is a multi faith country and that should be respected. This has nothing to do with racism, but everything to do with fairness and enrouraging people to accept that if they come to this country, they are welcome so long as they respect other faiths and the existing traditions, like the celebration of Christmas.

It doesn't surprise me at all that Ruth Kelly is involved somewhere down the line and God help us all if it's left in the hands of this witless woman! I'm mixed race and am sick and tired of listening to people like her witter on about ethnicity related issues - wake up and understand you can't please everybody all the time Ms Kelly and shouldn't be trying to.

- Marie Maurice, Enfield, Middx

Surely, Our Ken, in his 'infinte wisdom', could think of something better to squander our money on. However I will donate a ý1.00 if Ken will donate the balance.

- Harold Pomerance, St. Albans, Herts. England

If GBP 100M is available then this should be spent for the benefit of all Londoners, not any one group.

Upgrading transport services especially London Transport is surely paramount, followed bu Roads and other Public Transport.

- Geoff Clark, London, England

Why is public money being used to provide facilities for any religion? This money must have come from taxes, levied either by local or central government so why is it not being used on education, health care or transportation where the need is greater than it is for yet another vote buying, self agrandising minority project?

I would feel the same if I heard that public money were being used to build a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish or any other place of worship. We are living in a secular state where the governement does not - by law - have any connection to any faith, so why is OUR money being used to support people who want to build a new cultural and religious centre?

- Robert Burnett, London, UK

I do not agree with the proposal of a mosque being built with such cost to our country, we should be putting money in to much needer causes such as education, NHS and the homeless.

- Marie O'Connor, UK

It's simple, This is not an muslim country so this should not go ahead. I am more than sick and tired of my money being squandered on something I want no part of.

- Katie Walsh, UK

redrus

Ok, I feel this is the only place on the forum I can post this.

I need to point out that this is in no way a racial issue for me but, I feel that were Christians to try and do this in the heart of Islam, there would be all out disgrace and, war.

Ken Livingstone is planning to use British tax payer's money to build an

enormous mosque costing an estimated 100M in the docklands. What do you

think about it? Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a new

hospital or improved transport facilities??

BIGGER THAN ST PAULS!!!

The plan is for the mosque to be so big that people flying in from all

over the world for the 2012 Olympics will it see it as the biggest

landmark in London, bigger than St Pauls, Westminster Abbey or Wembley

Stadium

Take a second to cast your vote in The Evening Standard on-line poll to

determine public opinion about whether a mega mosque should be built

for the Olympics.

The vote so far is 56 % in favour.

It looks like the Muslim community is casting its vote in droves, and

as usual the Christians are burying their heads in the sand....

This is London Vote Link.

Feel free to pass this on.

redrus

I totally agree with your sentinments Redrus. If this was to happen in mainly populated Islamic countries, where Christians built a church there would be outcry from Islamic fundamentalists. I think in this time of crisis among Islam and the West, the West should sometimes protect its own heritage and traditions more. Muslims seems to feel that we should treat them fairly and not jusdge, yet our beliefs are a joke to them and trodden on daily. I for one would voice I am opposed to such ostentatious buildings trying to overshadow our churches and religious heritage.

Agreed Lop.

I grew in very multicultural south Manchester and, around the world I do not never have and never will mind seeing religious structures. I find them fascinating.

From Churches in the UK to Temples in SEA to Mosques in the Middle East, I find it all amazing and, have no problem with some of these structures in the UK, there is beautiful Buddha statue on the south side of the Thames that I see from the north side Chelsea area. Mosques are amazing structures as are our Churches, Synagogues too, all quiet places for contemplation, prayer, reflection, meditation. Many with beautiful gardens as is suggested this one will have.

Why must it be so large, why must Livingstone take such an interest.? What will serve other than to alienate the Muslim population even more and, create more bad blood....!

Are Muslims trying they're hardest to impress on us the fact that past Christians went round the world building churches and forcing others into 'our way', is this why our Government back down so easily...?

redrus

I too totally agree with you Redrus. In fact i have already voted on the Governments E-Petition web site. Upto now there are about 24,000 votes against it. Absolute disgrace. And yeah, you are right about building Churches etc in Muslim countries. When i lived in Kuwait and Saudi, you'd get horse whipped for even wearing a cross.

Here is the link to vote on the governments web site http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/

Pass it on to others.

I too totally agree with you Redrus. In fact i have already voted on the Governments E-Petition web site. Upto now there are about 24,000 votes against it. Absolute disgrace. And yeah, you are right about building Churches etc in Muslim countries. When i lived in Kuwait and Saudi, you'd get horse whipped for even wearing a cross.

Here is the link to vote on the governments web site http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/

Pass it on to others.

Nice one mate, I have passed on your link to my original senders. A lot of whom are in London, some actually in the West Ham area..

redrus

Are Muslims trying they're hardest to impress on us the fact that past Christians went round the world building churches and forcing others into 'our way', is this why our Government back down so easily...?

redrus

The argument of this in a modern society does not deserve conjecture. In the society of today it is apparent that animosity between the West and Islam is not going to subside at present or in the foreseeable future, So why would it be in the interests of the British Nation to build a religious meeting place for those we are in a sense at war with in a terrorist and international capacity?

Are Muslims trying they're hardest to impress on us the fact that past Christians went round the world building churches and forcing others into 'our way', is this why our Government back down so easily...?

redrus

The argument of this in a modern society does not deserve conjecture. In the society of today it is apparent that animosity between the West and Islam is not going to subside at present or in the foreseeable future, So why would it be in the interests of the British Nation to build a religious meeting place for those we are in a sense at war with in a terrorist and international capacity?

It has never subsided.

It is not in our interests. It is in the interests of our government.

I really hate the animosity, in my town, ethnic minorities are at a minimum. Down the road though its me who's the minority.

I have and feel no animosity and make a point of stopping my vehicle when I can to let women wearing religious dress cross the road. Much to their surprise I add but, its a small thing as I smile and let them cross.

Difficult, no. Will it make a difference, I don't know but, if I can show the people around me just to stop casting aspersions and stop looking at everyone with a suspicious eye, some might take note.

When I smile at these ladies crossing the road, I see the corners of their eyes curl up, even though you can see little of their faces, it makes a difference to me to know my gesture was appreciated.

redrus

Firstly , I thought a link to the London Evening Standard report quoted in post#2

would be useful.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...site/article.do

(Wow , that's the longest link I've ever seen)

The only other report I could find was on the "Muslim News" site.

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/index.php?article=2896

No surprise that there are umpteen discrepancies between the two accounts.

In neither version did I find mention of Ken Livingstone (I presume he is still

Mayor of London?) nor taxpayer funding of the project.

Nowhere could I find the text "quoted" in post#1.

Whose words are these?

Awaiting answers myself FS as is,

Where in this story does it say that the 100 million pounds is coming from public coffers?

- Mark, Luton, UK

All recent buildings I know of, 1 in Blackburn in my mind especially (with a £1 million tunnel so when moving the dead from one building to another, they didn't to 'be in our air') have been payed for by the taxpayer, I see no difference here. Where else will the cash come from.

I saw news clips of race riots in North West town's because of things like this.

I did not write those words they came from a source I trust and, there are plans for this to go ahead as you can see.

I know it says it in the title but, Ken's a bit irrelevant really, although The Mayor of London will have a say.

redrus

I always offer my hand in friendship as much as I can to all ethnic groups, being a community worker before in a partly Muslim populated area it was a role as well as a responsibility. My city is now as most of England is multicultural. Same as South, the north seems to have its designated Muslim areas. I wish these barriers could be broken down and the Muslims would mix out of there commmunitys and join in a community spirit with the other ethnic groups. The Indian community at large has steadily adapted to life in the UK, whereas I feel the Muslim community does not and does not choose to. The challenges that lie ahead have to be met and welcomed by both sides unless tension will arise in all changes and developments such as this.

I always offer my hand in friendship as much as I can to all ethnic groups,

Likewise...... but the differential is getting a bit silly now..... and has become mostly one way traffic.

I fear for the loss of English people, culture, language. Can't you all put your foot down? It's not like your country was created by a melting pot of people like the US and Canada. Your plight p*sses me off more than the flagrant abuse of legal loopholes and the do-gooders helping immigrants in America.

I heard that one elderly gentleman was ordered to remove the Union Jack from his window perch because it "offended" his muslim neighbours.

And what language will your kids be speaking at school in ten years and your MPs in Parliament?

I never expected equal rights when I lived overseas, so it really ticks me off to see people demand, demand, demand when they move to a free, liberal country in the West.

And to use public funds to underwrite the building of a mosque? HOGWASH.

The most frightening thing in the UK for me at present is the leadership's total lack of historical knowledge.

From not reading of our own army's problems in the Iraq region post world war one ( yep they gave us a torrid time then....the boys sadly can fight when they have a cause they feel it is worth fighting for ) to the total disregard for the feelings of the white majority in the present day.

I see sad parallels with post WW1 Germany in the UK with a disgruntled middle class, usually stoic by nature but now being pushed towards the right by the accesses of the quasi-socialist few at the top. The country is ripe for some disgruntled, bitter, fascist ( usually with penile problems ) to stir the pot and bring violence to the streets.

The UK has become a dumping ground for the world's flotsam and I am sorry to say one day the folk of " Middle England " will say enough s enough and the people who brought the country to this state will have to run off pretty ###### quick to their friends Italian or where-ever villas for yet another photo shoot.

Jet et al

Just a couple of reasons why I have no regrets about leaving the UK.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...ifix/article.do

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...amp;expand=true

There are many more, but it is too depressing to go looking for examples of this nature.

I'm not religious in any way, but when a young girl can't wear a crucifix were someone of an 'ethnic minority' can wear a sacrificial dagger, there is something fundamentally wrong.

Rather prophetic the timing of this thread as it's the Prophet Mohammed's birthday today.

I have already voted against it even though the info I received stated it was being built not with British public funds but funded by some secretive Saudi Arabian sect which, in a way, makes it more disturbing. I don't mind them having mosques, any religeon in a free society is entitled to their place of worship, but it's the sheer size of the place that bothers me. It will totally dominate a large area of London and will inevitably create division amongst the populace and drive out the non-believers creating a muslim sector. There has already been outcry over a cleric's remarks about a member of parliament visiting a muslim neighbourhood to the effect "what is that infidel doing in a muslim enclave?".

It really riles me that the whole <deleted> world has to bend over backwards to accommodate and avoid insult to Islam and muslims but they sh1t all over the rest of us.

I'll shut up now as I'm getting on one of my soap boxes and I'm just off to Finnegans to raise a glass, or two , to good ole Mo'.

As the lines in the song go "Too many people have died in the name of god (christ?) for me to believe the word"

Peace brothers and sisters.

Jet et al

Just a couple of reasons why I have no regrets about leaving the UK.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...ifix/article.do

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...amp;expand=true

There are many more, but it is too depressing to go looking for examples of this nature.

I'm not religious in any way, but when a young girl can't wear a crucifix were someone of an 'ethnic minority' can wear a sacrificial dagger, there is something fundamentally wrong.

Hear you, Thaddy. You live in Thailand and enjoy the perks of cheaper prices, nice climate, laxer laws, but you cannot vote, will never get any benefits nor be able to voice complaints. Then you go home and it's not your country anymore.

Phil, you are good on a soap box. Thanks for the info.

Nice one so far people for keeping this touchy subject on the right track.

I agree with a lot of views already expressed here.

I am now quite passionate about my country, I lived in Germany for four years six years ago. For some reason, when I came back, I was totally for Queen and country. Not to anywhere near a weird state I add, please don't get me wrong but, to a point that made me appreciate my home and, its colourful history.

I would like to hear a practising Muslim view on all this, not sure but there must be some on TV and in Bedlam....?

How does a Muslim person feels about cancelled Christmases in Spain, or Fearful Employers bannning Christmas Decorations.!

or Christmas being cancelled in South London....!

I recognise that most of this is PC correct Christians not having any <deleted> but, the Muslim faith must accept some responsibility for *not joining in our celebrations and, segregating themselves off....?

Why is it that the world must accommodate your feelings so much....?

redrus

I fear for the loss of English people, culture, language. Can't you all put your foot down? It's not like your country was created by a melting pot of people like the US and Canada. Your plight p*sses me off more than the flagrant abuse of legal loopholes and the do-gooders helping immigrants in America.

I heard that one elderly gentleman was ordered to remove the Union Jack from his window perch because it "offended" his muslim neighbours.

And what language will your kids be speaking at school in ten years and your MPs in Parliament?

I never expected equal rights when I lived overseas, so it really ticks me off to see people demand, demand, demand when they move to a free, liberal country in the West.

And to use public funds to underwrite the building of a mosque? HOGWASH.

My Ex GF works for the government, during the world cup they were told to take St. George flag screensavers off there computers as it offended Muslims? Yet they can burn effigies of my countrys leader on a daily basis.....

Its sad, they are sad and I just want them to chillout.

What about Udon?

My job takes me amongst ordinary (shopkeepers, postmaster, post office staff) Muslims in the Uk every day of the week and all of them that I've spoken to are just as bemused about it all as you are. I asked one guy what he thought about the general impression being put about that the 'Muslim community' ought to be more forthcoming with information about terrorists. His answer was 'I'm an ordinary man with a wife and kids and I run a corner shop, how the hel_l do I know anything about the plans of terrorists'? Let's not forget that there are 1.6 million Muslims in the UK, almost all of who have never been near the Finsbury Mosque. Out of all the places that I visit in a a week those with Muslim staff are by far the most hospitable. You can always guarantee a cuppa when you visit

It's worth noting that the Evening Standard and the Daily Mail are part of the same newspaper group which sees Ken Livingston as the devil incarnate. The Standard, especially, pursues a vendetta against him at every opportunity and should not necessary be believed when writing about him. I hold no good opinion of Livingston but the population of London has elected him Mayor twice.

It's worth noting that the Evening Standard and the Daily Mail are part of the same newspaper group which sees Ken Livingston as the devil incarnate. The Standard, especially, pursues a vendetta against him at every opportunity and should not necessary be believed when writing about him. I hold no good opinion of Livingston but the population of London has elected him Mayor twice.

In his time Livingstone was not only vilified by those on the right in politics he even ran

foul of "New Labour" for unpardonable acts such as contacts with Sinn Fein politicians.

As you point out , for some unimaginable reason , he was elected as Mayor of London

and he obviously did an atrocious job because they re-elected him.

The OP has admitted that Livingstone has nothing to do with this story but has not

seen fit to have his headline corrected.

That e-petition is hotting up. It's now at 27,200. Another 3,000 have petitioned in a few days

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/

That e-petition is hotting up. It's now at 27,200. Another 3,000 have petitioned in a few days

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/

A quote from this petition page :

"We the Christian population of this great country England would like the proposed plan to build a Mega Mosque in East London Scrapped. This will only cause terrible violence and suffering and more money should go into the NHS."

Can anyone tell me why the expression "rivers of blood" sprang into my mind ?

I have re-read the thread.

I have yet to see state funding substantiated.

The linking of Ken Livingstone to the issue has already been concede as spurious by the OP.

The story seems to be reported only by the Evening Standard and the Daily Mail and their

reporting , to me at any rate , seems to be framed in populist jingoistic terms.

The report in the Muslim News (which I'm sure you ALL read) seems to disagree with all

the accounts listed above (funding, the nature of the Muslim sect involved , the proposed

size of the structure).

I am not English therefore I do not have a vote.

I only observe.

It is interesting to read the actual " Rivers of Blood " speech. Mr. Powell quotes " a quite ordinary man " who told him if he had the money he would leave the UK and that he would not rest until his three children were safely abroad. 1968........................sounds familiar.

http://www.sterlingtimes.co.uk/powell_press.htm

Full text even more interesting if you have the time. I am NOT a right wing racist, but I do consider myself to be passionate about my home country. Many of the views which got Powell castigated as a fascist in 1968, sadly have turned out to have been insights into a future which I and many more now realise, that if we would have actually read what Powell said back then, we may have been in a position to be able to do something about the mess which is the UK today.

http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol1no1/ep-rivers.html

PS. Some of the terms are now quite insulting to read. However, it is the insight into a bleak future which is perhaps worth the trouble.

PS. Some of the terms are now quite insulting to read. However, it is the insight into a bleak future which is perhaps worth the trouble.

Read it, didn't really need to as I remember it from the original.

It is sad for me, as a UK citizen (despite the fact that I am not there, but that is what I will always be) that the UK (mainly England) has transformed itself from a courageous nation (blitz spirit, Normandy, that sort of stuff) into a nation of wimps..... I don't believe for one second that the nation has changed that radically over such a short space of time ...... but the politicians have.

(sorry..... there was a war reference in there.... it was only for the sake of context)

//edit/spelling

I fear for the loss of English people, culture, language. Can't you all put your foot down? It's not like your country was created by a melting pot of people like the US and Canada. Your plight p*sses me off more than the flagrant abuse of legal loopholes and the do-gooders helping immigrants in America.

Sorry to disagree here, but what is today the UK (England is only a part of the UK - any self respecting Scot would hang you for calling him 'English' ) has been a melting pot throughout the last 2000 something years or so. Ice age tribes were the original inhabitants who disappeared or were completely assimilated by the later migrations, then the Celtic invasions, the Romans, the different Germanic tribes, the Normans, the many people from the Empire, etc.

Even the Royal family is of German origin. English language and culture has been molded by each migration. Todays exclusion of foreigners on racial and cultural grounds has no base in the UK's history (the same way it has in hardly any other society), and is an artificial construct.

I fear for the loss of English people, culture, language. Can't you all put your foot down? It's not like your country was created by a melting pot of people like the US and Canada. Your plight p*sses me off more than the flagrant abuse of legal loopholes and the do-gooders helping immigrants in America.

Sorry to disagree here, but what is today the UK (England is only a part of the UK - any self respecting Scot would hang you for calling him 'English' ) has been a melting pot throughout the last 2000 something years or so. Ice age tribes were the original inhabitants who disappeared or were completely assimilated by the later migrations, then the Celtic invasions, the Romans, the different Germanic tribes, the Normans, the many people from the Empire, etc.

Even the Royal family is of German origin. English language and culture has been molded by each migration. Todays exclusion of foreigners on racial and cultural grounds has no base in the UK's history (the same way it has in hardly any other society), and is an artificial construct.

Colycat I have to pull you up here for being WAY off topic.

This thread is about expressing anti muslim views supported by urban myth anecdotes.

And you might want to go easy on Jet. She is a slightly aggressive Canadian. That in itself

can be described as schizophrenic. She can also skin a beaver in 3 seconds with a pocket

knife It's your hide. You have been warned.

PS

In your panoply of "visitors" to the UK you forgot the Scandinavians. Read about Harold's

campaigns during his brief reign. There's a lot more than a day trip to Hastings.