Canadian diagnosed with brain tumour in Thailand has travel insurance declined because he had the flu a month ago

[bobnuts]

Admittedly I haven't ready all 8 pages but I have a slightly different take on this. He had a really bad headache that didn't get better. Local Samui doctor has diagnosed brain cancer. Step one, get to a trusted doctor and repeat.  Have seen on 3 separate occasions in 3 different parts of the country, Bankok, Lampang and Korat. People diagnosed with cancer. Doctor treats cancer with pricey (for the families concerned) drugs. Some months later, cancer is cured. Hmm. They really should be exporting this stuff.

 

Not saying it's not true, but a second opinion is always sensible.

 

 

[ChrisY1]

8 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

The article topic is dead wrong.  He was reporting a headache a month ago, but it was most likely NOT due to having the flu.  He had brain cancer and the flu may just have made things more sensitive.  having said that, this just point out the junk insurance policies that may be coming from the Thai immigration directives.

We don't know where he purchased hid travel insurance that I can see.

I have Thai health insurance, and the company has been excellent to me to date...never a qualm of paying up. Motor cycle accidents though may well be different.

[Dr Rodrigues Pereira]

There are some types of brain cancers that can and will develop in just a few days.  Glioblastome is one of them. This said, it is ridiculous to think that, had the gentleman known about his condition, he would certainly not have crossed the world for a couple of weeks vacation!!! It is extraordinary what Insurance Companies try to find out as excuses not to pay !!!

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Anything stopping him from taking a land/sea trip back to Canada?

Greta Thunberg's boat won't be here for another 4 weeks at least.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Who goes to an emergency room for the flu? Why doesn't he just get on a normal flight immediately?

Why do people jump in and post irrelevant questions and suggestions after reading JUST the OP and NOT reading linked article in the OP and subsequent comments?

[todlad]

8 hours ago, ezzra said:

i'm not a big fan of insurance companies ways of doing business but there's some information missing from the OP...With all due sympathy here, not sure whether the insurance company should be liable for what is undoubtedly a pre existing condition, surely this massive tumor hasn't come about when he was traveling right?...

I don't know you but let me assume that neither of us has any medical training at all ... that's certainly true of me. Let me also assume that there is nothing else to this story, which could well be true: that is, take it at face value.

 

I get a headache. I take paracetamol. The headache stays. Am I now suffering from a pre existing condition? Is it fair to say that a headache is an outlier event because I never get them therefore I, not trained in the slightest, am guilty of walking around with a pre existing condition and failing to report it?

 

Am I looking at this in a rational way? 

 

I know I sometimes come here and argue the toss but in my case, I have had a cough for a while and for part of the time, felt like real <deleted>. I have seen three doctors and taken the pills they prescribed. I am much better now. If it turns out, however, that I've got some dread disease, my insurance company might tell me to eff off? Is that right?

[Thomas Hannah]

So ,why not fly home.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Must be a fairly aggressive tumor. From a headache one month ago to critical condition.

My 72 year-old father had over 3 weeks of lower back and abdominal pain before being admitted to hospital where they focused on liver and bowel cancer. After about 10 days of blood testing, x-rays and scans showed nothing untoward, he was told the heart and lung specialists would be next but since that department was busy, he would need to go home with a bag of painkillers for about a week before being readmitted. On the morning of his planned discharge, his descending aorta, the cause of the pain, finally ruptured emptying about 8 pints of blood into his body cavities. Luckily, he was only two floors, 600 m and 11 minutes from the operating theater.

 

I take it you are NOT a real Dr?

[SkyFax]

19 minutes ago, Dr Rodrigues Pereira said:

There are some types of brain cancers that can and will develop in just a few days.  Glioblastome is one of them. This said, it is ridiculous to think that, had the gentleman known about his condition, he would certainly not have crossed the world for a couple of weeks vacation!!! It is extraordinary what Insurance Companies try to find out as excuses not to pay !!!

So does that mean that, if the doctor in Canada 30 days prior had said "Let's run some tests to be sure", the Canadian physician would have been unable then to detect the tumor?

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Moonfire said:

Is the claim the insurance company will NOT medically transport him back home? It's about 20 hour flight where health care is free for the most part. They should be prepared to pay their own way home from Thailand anyway.

Except in this instance it was 'if you fly, you may die'.

 

Will the next speed reader please step up.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, SteveK said:

Surely he can still get on the plane with a brain tumour?

Try 'intracranial pressure' and 'aircraft pressurization at altitude'

 

google is your friend

 

...that and reading all Sheryl's posts in this thread.

[natway09]

Think we have been told what they want to tell us

[NanLaew]

58 minutes ago, Ketyo said:

I wonder if his insurance company is Cigna. They are the worst. Expensive, and decline almost 50% of claims. They have a small print policy of ways to decline claims that they will not make available to customers. So customers don't know if they will be covered until they claim. 

 

The best way is to assume the Insurance company won't pay. Buy a low price policy that covers major emergencies. (Many low cost companies pay out more often than high price companies like Cigna). And then self insure with enough cash to cover most things except for the extreme cases.

It is not Cigna.

 

This 'I care not to read a thread before contributing' moment brought to you by...

[FritsSikkink]

26 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Why do people jump in and post irrelevant questions and suggestions after reading JUST the OP and NOT reading linked article in the OP and subsequent comments?

I read the linked article, can't be bothered about all the comments

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, SteveK said:

Surely he can still get on the plane with a brain tumour?

 

Not when it is causing increased intracranial pressure.

 

Even though temperrily reduced by medication, it could increase again mid flight.

 

The insurance co's medical team will have reviewed information on his condition and apparently determined that nothing short of an air ambulance would suffice.

 

Increased intracranial pressure is a severe medical emergency.

[Sheryl]

20 minutes ago, SkyFax said:

So does that mean that, if the doctor in Canada 30 days prior had said "Let's run some tests to be sure", the Canadian physician would have been unable then to detect the tumor?

 

We don't know if the flu episode and doctor was in Canada or in Thailand.

 

Regardless, none of the tests one would be likely to do for suspected flu would detect a brain tumor.

 

Every likelihood that the headache he had during the flu (which seemingly resolved) was not related  to the brain tumor.

 

Brain tumors can be present for some time before they cause symptoms, they cause symptoms only when they start impinging on vital areas or cause an increase in intracranial pressure, the latter appears to be what occurred in his case. And what makes it dangerous for him to just hop a flight home.

[tgw]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

We don't know if the flu episode and doctor was in Canada or in Thailand.

actually we know:

Quote

"A few hours later they called back and said they received his medical records and it showed he checked into an emergency room in Moncton a month ago and had symptoms of the flu. He reported a mild headache and because he said that they cancelled our claim based off having a pre-existing condition.”

 

[SkyFax]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

We don't know if the flu episode and doctor was in Canada or in Thailand.

<CUT>

"A few hours later (the insurer) called back and said they received his medical records and it showed he checked into an emergency room in Moncton * a month ago and had symptoms of the flu. He reported a mild headache and because he said that they cancelled our claim based off having a pre-existing condition.”

 

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/canadian-diagnosed-with-brain-tumour-in-thailand-has-travel-insurance-declined-because-he-had-the-flu-a-month-ago-1.4722084

 

* Moncton is a city in southeastern New Brunswick, Canada

[Sheryl]

Ok, so it was in Canada. All the more reason to accept the diagnosis of the doctor who examined him, that it was simple flu.

 

To claim that because while treated for the flu a month prior he reported a "mild headache" he was already showing signs of a brain tumor is a very, very big stretch.

 

If they do nto reverse, they will lose on appeal.

 

 

[kingdong]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Insurance companies certainly do investigate fraudulent claims, why on earth would you claim that they don't? 

Well they didn,t with a claim I made,my neighbour made a fraudulent claim and they simply paid it.my subsequent payments then went right up for the next 6 years so in effect I paid it,insurance companies should have a duty of care regarding their clients but all they seem to want to do is wriggle out of paying.

[kingdong]

43 minutes ago, Thomas Hannah said:

So ,why not fly home.

He hasn,t got wings?

[SkyFax]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Ok, so it was in Canada. All the more reason to accept the diagnosis of the doctor who examined him, that it was simple flu.

 

To claim that because while treated for the flu a month prior he reported a "mild headache" he was already showing signs of a brain tumor is a very, very big stretch.

 

If they do nto reverse, they will lose on appeal.

 

 

Insurance considerations aside, is it then that when someone goes to an an emergency room in Canada claiming a mild headache and the flu, the doctor should have no suspicions that there was something amiss otherwise when, just 30 days later, that there was something amiss was obvious to a doctor on Koh Samui?

[Sheryl]

It is not expected of ER physicians anywhere in the world that they be able to predict the future nor identify rare ailments not causing symptoms and unrelated to the presenting complaint.

 

What happened a month later was that he developed a severe headache and presumably  basic neuro exam showed some abnormalities. This led to the ordering of scans which is how the tumor was found.

 

Flu like symptoms with a mild headache are not an indication for a brain scan.

 

It is not at all unusual for brain tumors to be asymptomatic for quite some time and then become symptomatic very abruptly. As previously explained.

[Bugsy777]

The pre existing condition clause refers to your knowledge of any pre existing condition. For example, if you take out travel insurance but you don't know that you have a serious medical problem, then you are covered on the balance of probabilities. If you knew that you had a brain tumour, would you really risk an overseas holiday? Seems improbable.

 

Can you imagine going to the doctor suffering from flu like symptoms and a headache and asking the doctor if he thinks you have a brain tumour? He would laugh at you and tell you to go to bed, take paracetamol, get plenty of fluids and ride it out.

 

So, to the point. What is the likelihood that symptoms of the flu would lead you to honestly believe that you may have a brain tumour?

 

The insurance company's very loose interpretation of 'pre existing condition' is not reasonable.

[SkyFax]

25 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It is not expected of ER physicians anywhere in the world that they be able to predict the future nor identify rare ailments not causing symptoms and unrelated to the presenting complaint.

<CUT>

Well then all I'll say is kudos to the physician on Koh Samui because he/she was obviously suspicious of the presenting complaint.

[Sheryl]

The presenting complaint was a really severe headache of sudden onset. 

 

Basic neuro check is standard for that. Any abnormal findings --- scan.

 

Both doctors followed normal standard of care. The patient's condition was entirely different on these 2 occasions.

[SkyFax]

18 minutes ago, Bugsy777 said:

<CUT>

Can you imagine going to the doctor suffering from flu like symptoms and a headache and asking the doctor if he thinks you have a brain tumour? He would laugh at you and tell you to go to bed, take paracetamol, get plenty of fluids and ride it out.

<CUT>.

So what happens when said doctor finds out that you DID have a brain tumor and he/she laughed you out of their office?

[SkyFax]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The presenting complaint was a really severe headache of sudden onset. 

 

Basic neuro check is standard for that. Any abnormal findings --- scan.

 

Both doctors followed normal standard of care. The patient's condition was entirely different on these 2 occasions.

If -- big IF -- the doctor in Canada had run a  brain scan regardless of the symptoms/complaint as presented, would the tumor then have  been able to be detected?

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, SkyFax said:

So what happens when said doctor finds out that you DID have a brain tumor and he/she laughed you out of their office?

Why do you all keep assuming the flu episode was related to the brain tumor?

 

Odds are it was exactly what it appeared to be: the flu.

 

It was the flu season.

 

People with brain tumors (or any other unknown tumor) can get the flu just as easily as anyone else. 

[manxcay]

If I had any type of cancer i'd just have cannabis oil, here's reputable research showing that cannabinoids have anti cancer properties in brain tumours. Someone who knows him should probably pass this information on to this guy.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5964193/