Bailing Out / Jumpin Ship

[GeorgeCross]

30 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Every time I read these kinds of smart alecky comments in threads on Thai Immigration tightening the screws, I can't help but thinking about the German clergyman Martin Niemoller's famous and oft repeated words...
 

 

 

they are all crawling out today, troll central

 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[Number 6]

Recently read in Bangkok Post that vast majority of Thai those that actually have bank accounts the balance is b500 or less. I think I recall top 10% hold 93% of assets.

 

Anyone with 800k in the bank here is a player. It's not the 800k per se but the multiplying effect, fractional reserve this can be lent at.

 

150,000 x 800k x 90 is real money. Especially for banks that are forced to service accounts that are net negative in profit.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Number 6

[abrahamzvi]

18 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's been a succession of mounting things....

 

--the end of income affidavits for US and UK residents, two of the largest western expat groups here.

 

--the resulting and pretty arbitrary and unfriendly rules Immigration adopted as a replacement governing monthly foreign bank transfers, the transfers having to be coded just so, not accepting deposit averaging over the year, and coming at a time when BKKB U.S. was curtailing their easy international transfers method.

 

--Along with, the increased requirements for holding time on people using the bank deposits method for extensions, including the new requirement that at least 400K of a retirement extension's 800K bank deposit must be kept untouched yearround, and the full amount must be kept untouched 5-6 months of the year.

 

--followed by the latest and VERY poorly thought thru health insurance requirement for current and past O-A visa holders -- which pretty much doesn't allow for home country insurance even when it provides full coverage in Thailand, and a companion Thai insurance industry market that simply won't write affordable policies, or any policies, as people get older -- which pretty much defeats the purpose of having an O-A RETIREMENT visa program.

 

So after all that, a lot of folks are looking down the road and saying what's going to be next?

Allow me to correct your statement regarding the insurance requirements of O-A Visa holders. Overseas insurance is fully accepted provided a confirmation on the forms produced by the Thai authorities is submitted. This is an accepted manner for most countries. Try to obtain a visa, as a Thai or any other nationality requiring a visa to the Schengen states without confirmation on issued forms of the existence of a valid medical aid cover and see. Why should Thailand not be entitled to adopt similar regulations?

[1FinickyOne]

everything is pretty much the same foe me as it always has been. 

 

is it that some ppeople did not legitimately qualify before? 

[malibukid]

the pollution is slowly killing us.  Thai's just don't seem to care

[jimn]

17 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Made my exit in Nov for all the reasons described in this post.  Wanted to stay forever...but at what cost to my personal freedom and sense of acceptance...

 

Happy to be away from all the hassles...

And yet you are still glued to Thai Visa?

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

Try to obtain a visa, as a Thai or any other nationality requiring a visa to the Schengen states without confirmation on issued forms of the existence of a valid medical aid cover and see. Why should Thailand not be entitled to adopt similar regulations?

As long as you're married to a local, you don't need any of those forms in Europe.

[URMySunshine]

17 hours ago, toofarnorth said:

So why read Thai Visa ?  I left England and have made my home here , my 400,000 B is in the bank . I don't read any , not one English newspaper , I don't need to know how cold it is , how much more a ticket costs to get into the city . Why are so many complaining on here today ?

Death,taxes and complaining on Thai Visa, these are the only 3 certainties in life.

[BritManToo]

12 hours ago, sirineou said:

IMO to retire one needs at least $250k in assets and a pension or other income .

IMHO to retire, one merely requires to be old.

I personally defined 'old' as over 45, but am happy for others that want to hold out until 65.

[Chicken George]

I don't travel much now as then I may have a long wait in immergration doing a TM30. Less money in exchange rates and leaving money on deposit here are a pain. I'd leave but would have to leave the mother of my two children here. She would allow them to go but it would break everyones hearts. Plus a major reason and the main one for me  is the air pollution here in the North. We have the highest rates of lung cancer in Thailand! 

So I will see how this next year goes . I expect to leave next year.

[malibukid]

17 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Recently I spoke with a farang who is since forever responsible for the bakeries is a gig supermarket chain.

He told me he is reducing the types of bakery items for sale because they sell significantly less than they used to sell.

And he told me that is especially for items which farangs typically buy.

 

Obviously that is no clear indicator what is going on but I think it definitely is an indicator. The quality and prices from that supermarket chain were always good and fair. So I think it's unlikely that people buy now similar products somewhere else.

That means people buy less (because they don't have the money anymore) or the people who used to buy are not here anymore.

 

i also noticed quality has gone downhill here.  less gourmet items are being stocked. shows that all income levels are giving Thailand the old heave hole.  some of us who come from money are just fed up with the BS, the pollution, insane traffic and general insouciance of the population.  they will never change.  

Edited December 22, 2019 by malibukid

[saengd]

1 minute ago, Chicken George said:

I don't travel much now as then I may have a long wait in immergration doing a TM30. Less money in exchange rates and leaving money on deposit here are a pain. I'd leave but would have to leave the mother of my two children here. She would allow them to go but it would break everyones hearts. Plus a major reason and the main one for me  is the air pollution here in the North. We have the highest rates of lung cancer in Thailand! 

So I will see how this next year goes . I expect to leave next year.

TM 30 updates in CM Immi. take less than 15 minutes.

[BritManToo]

34 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Love the Philippines

 

If you ...

The visa and extensions are easy but expensive.

Not entirely sure I consider $300 expensive (Cambodia and Philippines both work out to near enough the same price for a year).

That's a lot cheaper than the Thai 1,900bht + 1,500bht + 1,600bht (extension + re-entry + TM30 fine) + 800K in bank + insurance.

Edited December 22, 2019 by BritManToo

[wonder6281]

I sold everything, rented out our house and moved us all back to OZ.  We will evaluate things in a few years after our son gets a few years of a Western education and the medical is free. 

 

Thailand is no longer an option for us.

[Isaan sailor]

Look at any western currency vs the Baht. Then look at the Chinese Yuan vs Baht.  You will see the inverse relationship that proves Chinese hot money inflows into Bank of Thailand, which in turn drives the Baht ever higher.  When will the ChiComs stop?  Whenever the Cha-Cha regime has had enough.  

Does the government value Chinese submarines and bullet trains more than a healthy economy—driven by tourism and exports?  Time will tell...

[theonetrueaussie]

19 hours ago, ezzra said:

Indeed, things got somewhat tougher in the past few years and some of the requirements got tedious and absurd, but whoever can fill those requirements, which by the way are fair and straight forward if you're a retiree and have some money put aside, those people can stay in the kingdom like for as long as they like, where's shoestings stayers will find it ever more difficult...

Thailand is a great place to be when it is cheap and easy, As the exchange rates have fallen as well as prices increased combined with the fact it is harder and harder to get long term visas the allure of thailand has completely gone. Thailand is no longer competing with the cheap countries but looking to become a mid/high cost destination but it has gone from ranking at the top of the low cost destinations to the bottom of the mid cost destinations.

Why would you come here and spend big when you can goto Japan/Korea/Singapore/Malaysia even many European Countries are now cheaper then thailand. Tourist numbers as a whole may be up but western tourist numbers are way down and will continue to fall especially for expats!

 

[jimn]

17 hours ago, toofarnorth said:

So why read Thai Visa ?  I left England and have made my home here , my 400,000 B is in the bank . I don't read any , not one English newspaper , I don't need to know how cold it is , how much more a ticket costs to get into the city . Why are so many complaining on here today ?

So you will not know then.

Maggie Thatcher, The Queen Mother and Sir Winson Churchill have sadly died.

The UK have just been granted membership of the Common Market.

The Beatles have broken up.

Sir Matt Busby has stepped down as manager of Manchester United.

Concorde has just had its maiden flight. The UK have just introduced decimalisation, no pounds, shillings and pence now mate.

The portable calculator is the biggest christmas gift this year.

There is now an asian financial crisis, you can now get 80 baht to the pound. 

 

No no stop now thats enough the last one was a step too far.

[ThomasThBKK]

44 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

"You can't demand to go to a random country and live there forever without proofing you have the means to do so."

 

What about the UK!

 

 

Married: Since July 2012, UK citizens and long-term residents applying to bring a non-EEA partner or spouse to live with them in the UK must meet a minimum income requirement of £18,600 per year before tax. For applicants who are also bringing dependent children the post-2012 threshold rises by £3,800 for one child and £2,400 for each additional child.

 

Retirement: For those scanning the globe for an overseas retirement destination, the UK might seem like a perfect landing spot. However, at present, there is no retirement visa for non-EU citizens to move to the UK. So the only options is the investment visa.

 

Investment: This investment visa is geared towards high net worth individuals who can make a £2 million investment into government bonds or share capital, to be held for at least 5 years.

 

 

 

Src: google.

 

Spare us all this populist bs, it's not easier to live in europe if you don't have an EU passport. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

Allow me to correct your statement regarding the insurance requirements of O-A Visa holders. Overseas insurance is fully accepted provided a confirmation on the forms produced by the Thai authorities is submitted. This is an accepted manner for most countries. Try to obtain a visa, as a Thai or any other nationality requiring a visa to the Schengen states without confirmation on issued forms of the existence of a valid medical aid cover and see. Why should Thailand not be entitled to adopt similar regulations?

 

Sorry, but you're not up on all the details of the insurance scheme administration...

 

The foreign insurance certificates -- IF the person can get one issued by their foreign insurers, which many are refusing to issue -- is going to be accepted by the Thai Embassies and Consulates upon initial O-A visa application.

 

However, it's entirely unclear of whether those same foreign insurance certificates will be accepted by Thai Immigration when people try to make use of the second year of their O-A visa via entry at land or air entry points...

 

And, it seems pretty clear that such foreign certificates are NOT going to be accepted by Thai Immigration when former O-A visa holders from any past years try to go and apply for extensions of stay based on retirement. Because the retirement extension amendment recently adopted only refers to insurance coverage by Thai insurers participating in the Longstay program.

 

[GeorgeCross]

8 minutes ago, theonetrueaussie said:

Thailand is a great place to be when it is cheap and easy, As the exchange rates have fallen as well as prices increased combined with the fact it is harder and harder to get long term visas the allure of thailand has completely gone. Thailand is no longer competing with the cheap countries but looking to become a mid/high cost destination but it has gone from ranking at the top of the low cost destinations to the bottom of the mid cost destinations.

Why would you come here and spend big when you can goto Japan/Korea/Singapore/Malaysia even many European Countries are now cheaper then thailand. Tourist numbers as a whole may be up but western tourist numbers are way down and will continue to fall especially for expats!

 

 

and the chinese aren't stupid they'll follow the westerners to the better value destinations as well, vietnam being the first example.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[saengd]

4 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Sounds like you are trying to confirm my post. 555

This is Gonzo's long established guest house and restuarant in Chiang Mai, you should stop by some time:

 

http://www.armms.com/

[Mbaki]

17 hours ago, toofarnorth said:

So why read Thai Visa ?  I left England and have made my home here , my 400,000 B is in the bank . I don't read any , not one English newspaper , I don't need to know how cold it is , how much more a ticket costs to get into the city . Why are so many complaining on here today ?

Some people have nothing better to do ????

[yogi100]

54 minutes ago, saengd said:

I think you need to rethink that one, my take is the exact opposite, few people wont have those things!

I don't need to rethink anything at all. Millions of working people from all over the globe will never attain such wealth.

 

Millions of OAPs in the UK live in rented accommodation and have just a state pension and a bit of pension credit to live on. Many of them can't even afford a holiday let alone an overseas retirement.

[saengd]

1 minute ago, yogi100 said:

I don't need to rethink anything at all. Millions of working people from all over the globe will never attain such wealth.

 

Millions of OAPs in the UK live in rented accommodation and have just a state pension and a bit of pension credit to live on. Many of them can't even afford a holiday let alone an overseas retirement.

Sure, but we're talking about Thailand and retirees here, not those back in blighty! If a person retires to Thailand with anything less than those figures they can only expect to run into problems. Gone are the days when a state pension was would fetch 80 baht per Pounds and the cost of living here was very low.

[Number 6]

8 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

attain such wealth.

250k USD is hardly wealthy. In fact the average home, average mind you. Runs about 200k.

 

Hopefully at the end of ones life you have 1500usd pm until 92yo. About 18k per year. Maybe 15k plus interest, dividend.

 

So, about 550k USD. If you don't have that I would highly advise returning home and hunkering down.

[Mavideol]

17 hours ago, BestB said:

If they can not afford it now , how will

they afford to come back?

nobody said about not being able to afford it now, they are saying they want to leave and/or are leaving or already left  because IMO/ government new rules, thus removing that hurdle they should be able to afford medical

[yogi100]

1 minute ago, saengd said:

Sure, but we're talking about Thailand and retirees here, not those back in blighty! If a person retires to Thailand with anything less than those figures they can only expect to run into problems. Gone are the days when a state pension was would fetch 80 baht per Pounds and the cost of living here was very low.

I know retirees who came out to live the Life of Riley when it was 74 to the GBP but never 80. In fact when I first came we only got 32 Baht to the GBP considerably less that the 38 - 39 we're getting now.

 

Never the less they still decided to retire in the LOS because in those days if they wanted to retire in a tropical climate along with its other attractions Thailand was the only place that fitted that bill and was affordable.

 

As far as I know not a single one of 'em was a clairvoyant or a psychic and it's those people we are discussing because they are the ones who are now 'Bailing Out/Jumping Ship'.

[Nanaplaza666]

20 hours ago, ezzra said:

Indeed, things got somewhat tougher in the past few years and some of the requirements got tedious and absurd, but whoever can fill those requirements, which by the way are fair and straight forward if you're a retiree and have some money put aside, those people can stay in the kingdom like for as long as they like, where's shoestings stayers will find it ever more difficult...

That's not the whole story , even people who have something set asside have it harder at this moment as the baht dropped and live here is as expensive as in their home country , where wellfare and many other things are much better arranged at this moment .

[Sheryl]

16 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

What changes? The only change I know of is citizens of certain countries no longer being able to lie about their incomes. The amounts required are exactly the same as they were in 2014.

800k that you are allowed to fully spend down is not the same as 800k which cannot be spent at all for 3 months and then only half of it spent thereafter.

 

Income equivalent to 65k a month with no requirements as to how much is in home country vs. Thailand is not the same as 65k must be brought into a Thai bank every month. 

 

Documentation requirements are in fact very difficult to meet as numerous threads attest. As is the insistance on transfers every single month with no allowance made for actual dates on which pensions and other retirement income streams are paid out.

 

There are a lot of people who readily meet the required monthly  income threshold still having problems meeting the rigid documentation  rules.

 

And as for the lump sum method, that issue should be apparent. Basic math. 

 

[HHTel]

22 hours ago, Gonzo the Face said:

Is there a large exodus of expats or is this just a perception.  I do know that governmental regulations have gotten harder to meet, but I thought it may have been my imagination. 

It is a common perception that everyone's leaving but I don't think that's the reality.

 

However, there are 72,000 retirees in Thailand according to 2019 figures.  If every one of them moved on, it would hardly be noticed.  It would give immigration officers an easier time but apart from that, Thailand does not need us and would get on just as well without us.  We are not as important as some think!