1FinickyOne Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 sorry to say but my experience is that if someone does not want to re-pay a loan often because they don't have the money, it is just not easy... as we say, you can't get blood from a stone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNXexpat Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, kenk24 said: sorry to say but my experience is that if someone does not want to re-pay a loan often because they don't have the money, it is just not easy... as we say, you can't get blood from a stone... She has money and many rai of land in Suphanburi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 11 hours ago, CNXexpat said: I loaned a (former) friend 400,000 baht to get his company up and running. I stopped reading after that. But I do suggest you ask your 'friend' what he is willing to do about his debt to you. But like all have said - you made a very bad investment. Never loan money to anyone - especially in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Suradit69 Posted January 11, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2020 12 hours ago, CNXexpat said: Does anyone have any idea what I can do to get my money back Asking for advice on Thai Visa is a great first step. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingstonkid Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 If your wife is a 25% owner and by that I mean on the corporate paperwork she is listed as a 25% shareholder then you have definite means for assitance. Every corp has to file papers as well as hold a shoreholders meeting. It also has to pay dividends to the shareholders. If she is a 25% shareholder and there are more than just the 2 shareholders she can also make a motion to disolve the company or to make changes. If you did one of this then legally she has 25% of nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonseeker Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Filing a civil case costs money in court. No lawyer will advance this. By all means, I understand you want to get even. But don't get yourself in hot water. Good lawyers can get money back, it will take a long time. Maybe check out the offer in a previous post first. He might just know that special lawyer. Good luck. MS> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdd Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, CNXexpat said: I think the contract is waterproof and the company is still existing. The 75% owner is making her money without involving the company. Does the contract state that the owner has to work full time for this company and may not work in any other job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) As others have stated, your best option now is to move on, right now your wife for all intense and purposes owns 25% of a dormant company, the ways of ever getting any of the investment back are limited, you could try to sell the 25% share to another person, however, it is unlikely anybody would pay anything for a company that currently isn't trading, the only other way is to hope that the company does trade, make money and pay dividends to the shareholders and make the % worth selling on, or the ex. friends wife buys your wife out, unless she wants to, or it was written in a contract, there is no way of making her. As this clearly wasn't a loan, how did you think you were ever going to recover the initial investment? Is the company a limited liability company? Edited January 11, 2020 by Mattd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1FinickyOne Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 58 minutes ago, CNXexpat said: She has money and many rai of land in Suphanburi. Well, have you simply asked for your money back? Even in the simple business of the people in my village, for a loan the person would give up the chanote as security... was there no guarantee given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNXexpat Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 15 minutes ago, jackdd said: Does the contract state that the owner has to work full time for this company and may not work in any other job? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdd Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, CNXexpat said: No. So the only crime which she has done (if you can prove it), would be some mixture of embezzlement or fraud because she is using the items bought with company money for her own business. The problem i see here is that you will hardly get anything at the end. Let's say she used the whole 400k to buy stuff which she is now using for her own business (which she probably didn't because she also used it for things like rent, salary etc. the real number will be much lower). In case a court would find her guilty of embezzlement, this would mean she would have to pay the damages back to the company (of course she would also get some additional fine, but this doesn't help you monetarily). In case she actually pays this back, you would then probably still have to sue her again to have the company dissolved. In case this goes through as well, afaik winding up a company costs something like 100k. So after being to court two times, and winning both cases, there is 300k left (in the very best case) in the company of which you will get 25%. In the very best case you might get 75k THB out of this, probably way less. Probably you should just forget this. You can try to pressure her into paying you something, but if she doesn't i think it's not worth to escalate any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sead Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 I'm thinking of what a friend told me. A life in thailand costs 10000bht. Now i come to think about mc gangs etc,etc. Don't ask me why but I always thought that bad guys deserves bad back and sometimes it's easier to give some guys 50000bht and tell them to go talk to them that you have sold their debt to them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazykopite Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 13 hours ago, CNXexpat said: I gave the money but my wife is the business partner. All on her name. So it´s a Thai vs. Thai thing. I am in the background. The simple answer is don’t get involved let your wife do the chasing it is she who owns a percentage of the company not you all you did was loan the money to your wife by law they would look at it that it was your wife who paid for the shareholding percentage. 400,000 baht for a 25% stake in a company that wasn’t even trading is very excessive . I wish your wife well in trying to get that amount of money back . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwill Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Have your wife talk to the other lady about getting 100% control of the company that never really started. Have her run the business like they were going to do. Perhaps your old friend can help you with the contacts he had for selling the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Do you have a written contract which specifies you have loaned the husband/wife 400,000 baht, and details the consideration in return? Repayment terms, and interest payable? Without something which is a legal document, I don't rate your chances very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natway09 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Unless there are some water tight documents signed methinks you will never see any of it ab\gain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caine Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Forget it, put it down to experience. Don’t get involved with this mongrel society. But sounds like you already are you have a Thai wife &*%+@ you’re luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thongkorn Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 14 minutes ago, natway09 said: Unless there are some water tight documents signed methinks you will never see any of it ab\gain A few Friends of mine had the same problem in the UK , They lent money to a person , She never paid it back, Went to the police , they said if you dont ahve any signed documents then We cannot do anything , YOU lent her the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Thongkorn said: A few Friends of mine had the same problem in the UK , They lent money to a person , She never paid it back, Went to the police , they said if you dont ahve any signed documents then We cannot do anything , YOU lent her the money. What if signed? Cuz an idiot owes me 80k here, but I made him sign a contract + witness and got copy of his docs including blue book and ID card. The contract now Finished (1 year) and he hasn’t paid back and is ignoring. There are terms on it also that if had to take to court all expenses on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunPer Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 15 hours ago, CNXexpat said: I loaned a (former) friend 400,000 baht to get his company up and running. Ok, actually his Thai wife who owns 51% of the company. Security was a 25% stake in the company. Seems like you own 25 percent of a non performing Thai company limited. What loan document did your friend's Thai partner sign – if your friend signed some, and now stay abroad, it's not a Thai case – you can get a lawyer to open a civil case, provided you have valid loan document. That will often require a deposit with the lawyer that as a start will write a letter to debitor. If the case goes to court you will often need to prepay the lawyer his full fee and the court fee; the latter you'll get back, if you win. As in any civil case about outstanding payments, you will have a risk of loosing both case and costs, and even if you win in the court, it's not equal with you'll get any payment from debitor. 15 hours ago, CNXexpat said: ...is there any chance to make her so many problems as possible? Apart from the legal options – layer's letters and calls to meet in a court – I would not recommend any other, especially since you are a foreigner against a Thai. You might consider "counting your loss and move on" as the most profitable option. For your info; I also loaned a friend money for his Thai business – little more than you – originally on a "gentleman agreement", but part was also made with a written loan agreement. My friend moved abroad and his business ceased operation, as his girlfriend lost interest in continuing a loss, and his company limited was probably forced closed by the authorities as inactive. It hurts to loose money, but 10 years after, it's not hurting so much as before...???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomauasia Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 15 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said: Short version: Forget it! The money is gone and you won't see it again. And I mean forget it including forget doing anything against the Thai women. Because she is in a much better position to create trouble for you compared what you can do for her. Imagine you will do something where she loses face big time? Do you think she will understand that you are right and she is wrong and that's it? 555 FORGET IT! Correct a victim and just leave it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puccini Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 CNXexpat, there is a big difference between a contract, eg a loan agreement, and a share certificate. I suggest that you should establish clearly what it is that your wife has. You have mentioned loan and contract and written guarantee and in one post you confirmed that she has a share certificate for 25% of the shares, which seems to indicate that you don't really know what she has. Another suggestion is that your wife should, for a start, find out official information about this company, for example on datawarehouse.dbd.go.th and www.egov.go.th/th/index.php Ir your wife cannot find the list of shareholders on datawarehouse.dbd.go.th she can get this and other company information free of charge by visiting the Department of Business Development (DBD) at the Ministry of Commerce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lootarzoon Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 15 hours ago, mstevens said: You do have a chance to get the money back, but it might take some time and effort to do so. First of all, if you invested money in the business and you received all of the correct documentation, and the business later went tits up because of mismanagement then there is, realistically, very little you can do. It would simply be considered a bad investment. If, however, you lent the money to them and have proof of the transaction i.e. a bank transfer, then you could file a claim for the return of the money. There are all sorts of options here but you will probably need a lawyer to assist you - and lawyers cost $$, obviously. It IS worth pursuing. Let the lawyer do all the work. Contact Siam ADR Bkk, Daniel, with docs in hands he will help you first with a pro consultation over y chances, if docs well set and personal loan signed you have a good chance over the years to come???????? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, mstevens said: You do have a chance to get the money back, but it might take some time and effort to do so. First of all, if you invested money in the business and you received all of the correct documentation, and the business later went tits up because of mismanagement then there is, realistically, very little you can do. It would simply be considered a bad investment. If, however, you lent the money to them and have proof of the transaction i.e. a bank transfer, then you could file a claim for the return of the money. There are all sorts of options here but you will probably need a lawyer to assist you - and lawyers cost $$, obviously. It IS worth pursuing. Let the lawyer do all the work. In regard to recovering your money, who actually received the funds, the farang, his wife, or was it perhaps paid into a joint bank account husband and wife or was it paid into a bank account in the name of the business. Was a receipt issued, if yes what does the receipt indicate in terms of who / what legal entity received the money? If the money was paid into an account in the business name, then is the business name registered and if yes who is mentioned as owning the business name? Are you holding any documentation in regard to you buying a 25% share, and if so who signed that letter, and behalf of whom? Or does the documentation (if any) say the money was a loan, if yes a loan to who? If the funds were to buy a 25% share in the business is there any documentation which states that on payment you automatically have a 25% share in the business, and does it state what rights you have in regard to business decisions? After all 25% ownership is not a small ownership. Is you do pursue legal action the judge will want very clear absolute answers to all the above points. If there is no clear documentation / answers then the judge will possibly incicate it's not clear who should be sued, therefore case cannot proceed. Edited January 11, 2020 by scorecard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puccini Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 15 minutes ago, scorecard said: ...If the money... So many ifs, so many open questions. I think it is best to wait and hear from the OP the answers to the question so that advice can be given to him without any ifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry2109 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 16 hours ago, CNXexpat said: Yes, that´s the last and most expensive option. I can make a 50/50 deal with him - if he will get the 400,000 Baht back, he´ll get 200,000. Better than to get nothing for me. That is only your imagination. Obviously, you do not have much experience with thai lawyers. Most (just not to generalize, I do not know others) are lazy, lame, incapable, bad organized and are always up for a quick buck. They will not take your offer for work for this incentive fee, they will demand upfront payment for some tenthousend baht. Then they will spent a minimal time and effort on this. Lets say they just make a telephone call, and then try to settle the issue for 50'000 Baht and tell you: thats it, take it or leave it. At the end, your lawyer fees will be bigger than your return. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaRoadrunner Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Getting a half hours legal advice from a lawyer will cost little or nothing. Though be aware the Thai lawyer is the only one guranteed to profit from this. Small claims court may be the way to go as it is quicker and cheaper and there is no appeal. Looks like you have some documentary proof to show. Without solid documentary evidence that can prove it in court you are up creek without paddle. You have a better chance as it is in your Thai wife’s name not yours. A Thai in this situation might descend on the lady with the entire tribe and demand payment. Or even pay gangsters a percentage to collect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardColeman Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 17 hours ago, CNXexpat said: Security was a 25% stake in the company. You lent money for a business with no money and no assets and you get potentially 25% of nothing if it doesn't work ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysaora Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 17 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said: Short version: Forget it! The money is gone and you won't see it again. And I mean forget it including forget doing anything against the Thai women. Because she is in a much better position to create trouble for you compared what you can do for her. Imagine you will do something where she loses face big time? Do you think she will understand that you are right and she is wrong and that's it? 555 FORGET IT! Appeasement at its worst. Why not just hand over your money to the nearest Thai woman and skulk away lest you make her angry. Shameful advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight8 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 17 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said: Gotta feeling the lawyer won't succeed, and you'll end up legally owing him 200k. ???? I think he mostly likely meant, a NO WIN NO PAY FEE type of agreement & in my opinion no way they would go for that unless they knew the risk to rewards was heavily in their favour. Money in this instance appears to be goneski... don't think OP is getting a baht back, he got stitched up~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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