claiming child support from Canada

[tgw]

I am befriended with a Thai lady who was legally married to a Canadian man who fathered her 3 children (officially registered in the birth certificates as the father) and then he ran out of money and went back to Canada (address known) and does not provide child support. Children are all officially Canadians.

The marriage has already been legally dissolved. She is totally in distress and I inquire on her behalf to ask what are the options for claiming child support from this Canadian man.

Are there precise guidelines somewhere about the process, costs and chances of success?

Edited January 19, 2020 by tgw

[FritsSikkink]

Ask the Canadian embassy.

[tgw]

55 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Ask the Canadian embassy.

Thanks, I did that already, waiting for an answer.

Any additional information will be helpful.

[Canuckabroad]

She needs to speak to a Canadian lawyer.  I’m not a lawyer so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

There aren’t any easy options for her.  Canada and Thailand don’t have child support reciprocity agreements, so she can’t file in a Thai court and hope to have it enforced in Canada (or vice versa).  She will need to talk to a Canadian lawyer who may advise her to file a claim in an appropriate province and make a case for child support.  (She should file in the province the father lives or works in, although technically it could be filed in any and enforced across Canada, but the father will certainly seek a change in venue.)  There are some sample international child support cases if you search on canlii.ca.  Since the claimant is outside Canada, the normal rules for awarding support will not automatically apply.  The father’s lawyer will first almost certainly insist that she be questioned on the stand, which means she will have to travel to Canada at least once and probably on multiple occasions, which could result in delays as she gets the paperwork necessary for a visa.  His lawyer will probably initially argue that the province should not have jurisdiction.  Usually they determine that they do, but not always, especially if the father can convince them he has paid in the past and intends to return to Thailand, where the children live and where it could be handled more appropriately by a Thai court.  If he is found liable for child support, payment amounts might be lower than what he would pay if the children were in Canada, and then adjusted further down by his (lack of) income.  He could retaliate by seeking sole or joint custody of the children, which might indefinitely put her claim on hold while he files cases in Canada and Thailand for that.  She will also need to pay for her flights, lawyer and courtroom translator out of pocket and likely only recover a portion of those costs if she is successful.

 

Again, I’m not a lawyer and the above is pure conjecture based on court cases I’ve read and the experience of a friend.  She needs to speak to a Canadian lawyer.

[RichardColeman]

5 hours ago, tgw said:

and then he ran out of money and went back to Canada (address known) and does not provide child support.

Daft question, but how do you know he actually HAS any money to give her ? A say 50 year old man with no money returning to the UK would potentially be on benefits and unable to send anything. So is he saying he wont, or just cannot anyway - you could be making him sound bad , when he too is stuck supporting her in any financial way

[tgw]

46 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Daft question, but how do you know he actually HAS any money to give her ? A say 50 year old man with no money returning to the UK would potentially be on benefits and unable to send anything. So is he saying he wont, or just cannot anyway - you could be making him sound bad , when he too is stuck supporting her in any financial way

you miss the point.

I inquire about the process, possibilities, etc.

it's not about making him sound bad, if I wanted to do that I would post his picture and name along with all the details of what he did while in Thailand, and believe me he didn't deserve that woman who is way too good for a man like that.

 

I don't know if he now has money or not, but he is a highly trained professional with university degrees and he went all shields up on facebook and linkedin, etc. so I would guess it's not completely improbable that he's found a job.

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Canuckabroad said:

She needs to speak to a Canadian lawyer.  I’m not a lawyer so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

There aren’t any easy options for her.  Canada and Thailand don’t have child support reciprocity agreements, so she can’t file in a Thai court and hope to have it enforced in Canada (or vice versa).  She will need to talk to a Canadian lawyer who may advise her to file a claim in an appropriate province and make a case for child support.  (She should file in the province the father lives or works in, although technically it could be filed in any and enforced across Canada, but the father will certainly seek a change in venue.)  There are some sample international child support cases if you search on canlii.ca.  Since the claimant is outside Canada, the normal rules for awarding support will not automatically apply.  The father’s lawyer will first almost certainly insist that she be questioned on the stand, which means she will have to travel to Canada at least once and probably on multiple occasions, which could result in delays as she gets the paperwork necessary for a visa.  His lawyer will probably initially argue that the province should not have jurisdiction.  Usually they determine that they do, but not always, especially if the father can convince them he has paid in the past and intends to return to Thailand, where the children live and where it could be handled more appropriately by a Thai court.  If he is found liable for child support, payment amounts might be lower than what he would pay if the children were in Canada, and then adjusted further down by his (lack of) income.  He could retaliate by seeking sole or joint custody of the children, which might indefinitely put her claim on hold while he files cases in Canada and Thailand for that.  She will also need to pay for her flights, lawyer and courtroom translator out of pocket and likely only recover a portion of those costs if she is successful.

 

Again, I’m not a lawyer and the above is pure conjecture based on court cases I’ve read and the experience of a friend.  She needs to speak to a Canadian lawyer.

thank you for that useful information !

I will scan canlii.ca for relevant cases.

 

 

 

[kingstonkid]

tgw

 

I think I can shed some light as I just went throuogh a divorce and have to make payments to cANADA

First she is going to need 2 lawyers 1 thai and 1 Canadian

She does not have to go to Canada for the trial or anything 

She does however have to be able to pay the lawyer in Canadian funds and that will run about 10-20k

 

The challenge for her is to get the location of the deadbeat.

 

Does she know anything about where he lives or where his family lives

 

My ex found me through the university I was going to.

If your friend has any information about his family and their location he can be served there.

 

I would talk to a Thai lawyer if you want I can recommend a company.

 

You obviously need a lawyer with international experience.

I would think that and this is just guessing but if she went through the Thai court system filed for stupport and served him through his parents that it would force him to hire a Thai lawyer or at lesat possibly make things esaier for her to get support when it went to Canada.

[geisha]

This highlights the terrible prospects of kids growing up in Thailand without support. I honestly think it’s disgustingly cruel to abandon your kids and disappear off the scene. I would try and contact the ex husbands family and start there.

[tgw]

1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

tgw

 

I think I can shed some light as I just went throuogh a divorce and have to make payments to cANADA

First she is going to need 2 lawyers 1 thai and 1 Canadian

She does not have to go to Canada for the trial or anything 

She does however have to be able to pay the lawyer in Canadian funds and that will run about 10-20k

 

The challenge for her is to get the location of the deadbeat.

 

Does she know anything about where he lives or where his family lives

 

My ex found me through the university I was going to.

If your friend has any information about his family and their location he can be served there.

 

I would talk to a Thai lawyer if you want I can recommend a company.

 

You obviously need a lawyer with international experience.

I would think that and this is just guessing but if she went through the Thai court system filed for stupport and served him through his parents that it would force him to hire a Thai lawyer or at lesat possibly make things esaier for her to get support when it went to Canada.

thank you.

 

[theonetrueaussie]

My advice would be to tell her to forget about him and get on with her life. If she wants child support in canada then as others have said she will need a canadian lawyer and most probably need to be in canada herself. As he could make it drag out and demand if she wants to file in canada that she be there in person...he could as others have said make her fly their multiple times etc and make it extremely expensive..

She could file in thailand but that will not be enforced internationally and even if he was to return to thailand be in the amount of 3-5k thb a month!!

[SoonOh]

If children do not have Canadian citizenship certificates, You will have to get it. Canadian embassy will provide all forms and info. 

Good luck with Canadian lawyers in Thailand. To start, all lawyers will offer "free" initial advice

 

Just like my friend's Thai lawyer said "forget it and go on with your life" 

 

 

[trilok007]

First and foremost find out where he lives.  Contact the legal aid or local groups that help the immigrants.  She can file a case against him in his jurisdiction without going there.  She needs to file sworn affidavit that has to be notarized here in Thailand.  Once her husband is served properly, things will become easy.  Try to obtain a consent order for a reasonable amount of child support and register the order with local MEP (Maintenance Enforcement Programme).  I am not sure if she can have a bank account in Canada or whether the MEP can send money to her here in Thailand.

[SoSoCNX]

Thai birth certificate is useless without Canadian citizenship certificate. 

Contact Canadian Embassy for free advice and ignore all useless advices 

[BTB1977]

Man up and take care of them yourself.  If they were 3 kids fathered by a thai, you would be expected to support them . My point is get as far away from that situation as possible.  Run Forest run. 

[CanadaSam]

OP, I would take away from this forum (thus far) the very valid and important points:

 

1-  Watch out for retaliation by father wanting custody and her possibly losing her kids.

 

2-  Contact legal aid groups in Canada in the father's province as she probably does not have funds to pay a Canadian lawyer.

 

3-  Get Canadian Citizenship Certificates and also Passports for the kids from the High Commission in Bangkok, should not be too difficult.

 

4-  Ask for a "reasonable" (lower) sum of support, so that contesting it would be more difficult than simply paying up, a few hundreds of dollars should not be difficult for a Canadian, no matter his circumstances.

 

Wish her good luck, every father has a responsibility to his kids, no matter the relationship between him and his ex.

[kwonitoy]

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/pdf/kits/citizen/cit0014e-2.pdf

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/pdf/kits/citizen/cit0001e-2.pdf

 

The links above will document what is needed

 

I've been through the process and it is not easy or straightforward.

It is more complicated and more time consuming than getting a child's passport, which is also not very easy in Bangkok. I've done my son's 3 times now and it seems to be getting more and more bureaucratic all the time.

 

To get a Certificate of Canadian Citizenship you're going to need the fathers

passport

canadian birth certificate

application form from embassy

childs photos

child's birth certificate

All documents must be in English or French, done by recognized translation offices. The embassy in Bangkok has a list.

The fee

I was told to expect to wait as long as 12 months after submission, it took 7 months

 

I'm not trying to discourage anyone, but your not going to waltz up to the embassy and do this in a day.

[SoonOh]

tgw

Since you are lady's friend, why you do not sport her and the children. May foreigners sport new thai wife with thai children, thai family and yes including ex-husband.

Legal aid is for people living in Canada

If I have a child with a Thai, I would insist on paternity test!