8 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Under the act of union to which they voluntarily and enthusiastically signed up 300 +years ago that falls to the UK parliament no matter how loud they squeak.

"By 1705, a joint Anglo-Scottish parliamentary commission had drawn up a draft treaty of union. The Scottish representatives were selected from supporters of the Hanoverian succession, followers of the Dukes of Queensberry and Argyll.

 

Nonetheless, anger was mounting as it became clear that this was an elite stitch-up. In both Dumfries and Stirling the treaty was burned in public, and rioting broke out in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

The writer Daniel Defoe reported a ‘Terrible Multitude’ on Edinburgh’s High Street led by a drummer, shouting and swearing and crying ‘No Union, No Union, English Dogs and the like’."

 

A People’s History of Scotland: The Union of 1707

1 hour ago, TheDark said:

So are you now saying lazy English workers were the real reason to commit Brexit?

 

Perhaps the change of attitude could have been done in a bit less destructive way. 

 

Did the workers in 60's and 70's also ski to their school, both ways uphill?

 

Showing the true Brexiteer Grit!

It’s really back to the future, yearning for empire stuff from these guys. Their heads live in the past and they are desperate to recreate it. 
 

The only local jobs that are going to be created are the ones for jobsworths, to process all the new paperwork they are creating. 

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

"By 1705, a joint Anglo-Scottish parliamentary commission had drawn up a draft treaty of union. The Scottish representatives were selected from supporters of the Hanoverian succession, followers of the Dukes of Queensberry and Argyll.

 

Nonetheless, anger was mounting as it became clear that this was an elite stitch-up. In both Dumfries and Stirling the treaty was burned in public, and rioting broke out in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

The writer Daniel Defoe reported a ‘Terrible Multitude’ on Edinburgh’s High Street led by a drummer, shouting and swearing and crying ‘No Union, No Union, English Dogs and the like’."

 

A People’s History of Scotland: The Union of 1707

Misquoting Daniel Defoe, he was shouting 'no onion, no onion with these English hot dogs' I believe he was non too keen on Colmans English mustard either.

On 2/21/2020 at 6:05 AM, Nigel Garvie said:

Sorry LG this is not a grammar issue, but an issue of meaning.

Being an Anglophile means that you love England/the English.

You can't do that and be a Brit basher at the same time.

Oh dear, the "Taking back control" nonsense you were fed certainly hit its mark. Were you scared when they told you that someone/thing else was controlling you, that's exactly what they wanted you to feel.

 

Bedtime reading -  lovely heading - Brexit has stuffed us say uk sausage chiefs.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-has-stuffed-us-say-uk-sausage-chiefs-p9w937qmh?fbclid=IwAR0NyNylSUn-87bdQ5yHUWX675Vv8jKIxvRRq5-iO2-rSFatvtei9clQxQ4

Once we take back control, we will be captain of our own jolly- boat on the seas of international trade, not part of a community steering one of the largest vessels in the ocean.  We might need to top up our RNLI contribution, though

17 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Once we take back control, we will be captain of our own jolly- boat on the seas of international trade, not part of a community steering one of the largest vessels in the ocean.  We might need to top up our RNLI contribution, though

A crack crew ready to take over...

9 minutes ago, samran said:

A crack crew ready to take over...

They were on the winning side too ISTR.

10 hours ago, sandyf said:

You are spreading garbage.

Of course the EU are proposing the UK remains in alignment with the EU, because Bojo is asking for zero tariffs, and that is the only way it can be done.

Bojo knows this and is paving the way to WTO and the inevitable tariffs with the blame on the EU for the failure and resulting price increases in the UK.

 

As for arbitration, you are all mixed up.

To sell into the single market goods from the UK would have to meet the requirements of EU directives and EU directives are under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. To sell into the US market, goods from the UK must meet the required US standards and US standards are under the jurisdiction of the US legal system, no different.

 

Canada is in a trade agreement with the EU and any dispute under that agreement would be resolved under the agreed resolution procedure.

If the UK was in a trade agreement with the EU, any dispute under that agreement would be resolved under the agreed resolution procedure, not sole arbitration by the ECJ.

You should try and avoid comparing apples to oranges.

Perhaps you're the one who is "all mixed up". When I said about EU rules, I meant this: 

 

Von Der Leyen has said: 

"Without a level playing field on environment, labor, taxation and state aid, you cannot have the highest quality access to the world's largest single market." 

 

The EU wants the UK to sign up to strict rules on fair and open competition so if British companies are given tariff-free access to the EU market, they cannot undercut their rivals. Furthermore (according to the EU), a future partnership must "ensure the application" in the UK of EU state-aid rules on subsidies for business.

The UK would also be required to stay in line with the EU's rules on environmental policy and workers' rights.

 

And with regard to he ECJ, the EU is demanding the ECJ be given a legal role in policing any free trade agreement. It wants the court to be able to issue binding rulings on disputes between the two sides, when they raise a question of interpretation of EU law.

 

This is not in line with FTAs the EU agreed with other 3rd countries. That's my point. 

 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

barstool <deleted> rambling

there are ONLY elected leaders in this budget game

 

Is there any need to get personal? surprising for someone with as many posts as you

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Misquoting Daniel Defoe, he was shouting 'no onion, no onion with these English hot dogs' I believe he was non too keen on Colmans English mustard either.

Colman's mustard on a hot dog?

17 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

20 hours ago, bartender100 said:

Looks like the EU might start thinking they should have treated the UK a bit better, instead of the hard-nosed attitude from its unelected leaders

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8028565/EU-leaders-argue-early-hours-bruising-budget-talks.html

 

barstool <deleted> rambling

there are ONLY elected leaders in this budget game

Melvin, I think you only call it rambling because you're in denial about the EU budget problems. Bartender made a perfectly valid point. 

And if you read it again, the unelected leaders he refers to are presumably the EU bureaucrats involved in negotiations with the UK, not the leaders at this budget summit. 

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Melvin, I think you only call it rambling because you're in denial about the EU budget problems. Bartender made a perfectly valid point. 

And if you read it again, the unelected leaders he refers to are presumably the EU bureaucrats involved in negotiations with the UK, not the leaders at this budget summit. 

???

denial? that is rambling for sure, I am in no rambling re any budget

 

Bartender points to editorial stuff re the EU budget, that stuff is handled by elected leaders.

 

ok, he might have referred to redtapers negotiating with UK before UK vanished,

but those are not leaders but bureaucrats as you say

 

 

6 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

???

denial? that is rambling for sure, I am in no rambling re any budget

 

Bartender points to editorial stuff re the EU budget, that stuff is handled by elected leaders.

 

ok, he might have referred to redtapers negotiating with UK before UK vanished,

but those are not leaders but bureaucrats as you say

 

 

The EU budget is proposed by the commission, so the unelected bureaucrats are involved from the off.

20 hours ago, evadgib said:

So the weather is now the latest stick to beat him with...?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well now you mention it, what about our new blue passports. I mean we want to distinguish ourselves as separate from the EU, right? Take back control, sovereignty, proud to be British, etc.

So why is the 'iconic' new UK passport being produced by a French-Dutch company in Poland?

Is it likely to get held up at Customs at Dover on January 1st 2021?

Can't we even produce our own passports on our own soil?

36 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The EU budget is proposed by the commission, so the unelected bureaucrats are involved from the off.

I find that comment somewhat silly,

if you take that approach then mostly everything is done by unelected bur.

US foreign policy

UK trade

UK fofreign olicy

UK defence

 

no room for politicians

no room for prime ministers or heads of states

 

12 minutes ago, bannork said:

Well now you mention it, what about our new blue passports. I mean we want to distinguish ourselves as separate from the EU, right? Take back control, sovereignty, proud to be British, etc.

So why is the 'iconic' new UK passport being produced by a French-Dutch company in Poland?

Is it likely to get held up at Customs at Dover on January 1st 2021?

Can't we even produce our own passports on our own soil?

 

you could also ask,

if you fancy being different why are the UK passports red and not blue?

 

there is no EU requirement that passports should not be blue

 

1 hour ago, bannork said:

Well now you mention it, what about our new blue passports. I mean we want to distinguish ourselves as separate from the EU, right? Take back control, sovereignty, proud to be British, etc.

So why is the 'iconic' new UK passport being produced by a French-Dutch company in Poland?

Is it likely to get held up at Customs at Dover on January 1st 2021?

Can't we even produce our own passports on our own soil?

You are taking the kids the passport museum and the kids ask: was that what the past looked like? And the brexiters answer, no sonny, that is the future! 

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

you could also ask,

if you fancy being different why are the UK passports red and not blue?

 

there is no EU requirement that passports should not be blue

England committing Brexit to get blue passports. 

 

Croatia be like, whaat?

Who cares? We are out, let them squabble over their budget

 

We can buy where we want now, if they don't want to trade to their previously biggest customer up to them

 

I am sure the people in the streets of the EU will have a different view in the years to come when M&M are history

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

I find that comment somewhat silly,

if you take that approach then mostly everything is done by unelected bur.

US foreign policy

UK trade

UK fofreign olicy

UK defence

 

no room for politicians

no room for prime ministers or heads of states

 

Topic is EU policy. I said "involved", not "done by". What are you on about? 

23 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

re being dep. on unskilled EEA workers;

 

a few seafood processing industries in Norway hire and import workers from PI,

works pretty OK as far as I  understand

 

Norway is actually not a member of the EU.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

 

Norway is not a member state of the European Union (EU). It is associated with the Union through its membership in agreements in the European Economic Area (EEA) established in 1994, and by virtue of being a founding member of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) which was founded in 1960, one of the two historically dominant western European trade blocs. Norway had considered joining the European Community and the European Union twice, but opted to decline following referendums in 1972 and 1994.

3 hours ago, TheDark said:

England committing Brexit to get blue passports. 

 

Croatia be like, whaat?

???????? (all of it!) left ???????? & couldn't care less for the views of ???????? (or ???????? !)

???????????????????????????? might win the ???? this afternoon & won't need their current ???????? passports as they're at home.

3 hours ago, bartender100 said:

Who cares? We are out, let them squabble over their budget

 

We can buy where we want now, if they don't want to trade to their previously biggest customer up to them

 

I am sure the people in the streets of the EU will have a different view in the years to come when M&M are history

We can buy where we want now...............nutty comment, we always could buy wherever we wanted to.

 

if they don't want to trade to their previously biggest customer up to them.............factually incorrect, the US was and remains the EUs biggest trading partner,  and also customer, they sell more to US than UK.(See stats below from Wikipedia)

 

Thats 2 out of 2 wrong, near average for a Brexiteer the it comes to facts!

 

I can't comment on M&M, are they the many coloured chewy sweets.

 

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Norway is actually not a member of the EU.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

 

Norway is not a member state of the European Union (EU). It is associated with the Union through its membership in agreements in the European Economic Area (EEA) established in 1994, and by virtue of being a founding member of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) which was founded in 1960, one of the two historically dominant western European trade blocs. Norway had considered joining the European Community and the European Union twice, but opted to decline following referendums in 1972 and 1994.

did I know that?

 

when we talk 4 freedoms and labour stuff we don't talk EU but EEA

 

btw,

your wikipedia is wrong - your "twice" should read "4 times"

4 hours ago, TheDark said:

England committing Brexit to get blue passports. 

 

Croatia be like, whaat?

a joke I presume?

 

5 hours ago, TheDark said:

England committing Brexit to get blue passports. 

 

Croatia be like, whaat?

Looks blue to me ....

23 hours ago, evadgib said:

Under the act of union to which they voluntarily and enthusiastically signed up 300 +years ago that falls to the UK parliament no matter how loud they squeak.

Another brexiteer myth. In 1603 the King of Scotland wore the crown of both Scotland and England. Scotland lost control in the English coup of 1707, never something the people of Scotland ever wanted. Little doubt you will try and dispute the history books.

 

Do you really believe that someone has ever said that the population of Scotland and that of England were equal? Of course you don't, just another attempt at distortion.

Brexiteers just refuse to accept that Scotland should have any say, far less an equal say, in the determination of their own future.

With superior numbers in population it is a privilege that only England is entitled to, autocracy in everything but name.

21 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Another brexiteer myth. In 1603 the King of Scotland wore the crown of both Scotland and England. Scotland lost control in the English coup of 1707, never something the people of Scotland ever wanted. Little doubt you will try and dispute the history books.

 

Do you really believe that someone has ever said that the population of Scotland and that of England were equal? Of course you don't, just another attempt at distortion.

Brexiteers just refuse to accept that Scotland should have any say, far less an equal say, in the determination of their own future.

With superior numbers in population it is a privilege that only England is entitled to, autocracy in everything but name.

- It is indeed a myth that B-B-Brexiteers were around in 1603 &

- RR (among others) bleats about ????????????????????????????'s equality all the time.

10 minutes ago, evadgib said:

 

- RR (among others) bleats about ????????????????????????????'s equality all the time.

Does this mean we are friends again, or is this just a one-off reference to me as a third party? 

 

I do believe that of the many things I bleat about, one of those is the lack of equality amongst the partner countries in the UK. I don't think I have ever expressed satisfaction with the arrangement. 

9 hours ago, bannork said:

Well now you mention it, what about our new blue passports. I mean we want to distinguish ourselves as separate from the EU, right? Take back control, sovereignty, proud to be British, etc.

So why is the 'iconic' new UK passport being produced by a French-Dutch company in Poland?

Is it likely to get held up at Customs at Dover on January 1st 2021?

Can't we even produce our own passports on our own soil?

EU procurement rules were largely to blame for the passport contract going to a foreign company. 

 

The UK company De La Rue previously made the British passports. De La Rue lost out after Gemalto (the French-Dutch company) undercut them by £50million.

EU procurement rules, which the UK had to obey whilst still in the EU, prevented ministers from discriminating against European firms bidding for public contracts.

 

The decision was therefore a result of a blind tender meaning that ministers were not allowed to know which firm had submitted which bid.

9 hours ago, bannork said:

Well now you mention it, what about our new blue passports. I mean we want to distinguish ourselves as separate from the EU, right? Take back control, sovereignty, proud to be British, etc.

So why is the 'iconic' new UK passport being produced by a French-Dutch company in Poland?

Is it likely to get held up at Customs at Dover on January 1st 2021?

Can't we even produce our own passports on our own soil?

You should ask the Europhile politicians and civil servants placing contracts why they prefer spending UK money and taxes in Europe. That’s the way try to spread our love and cash a little too far. 

They would claim they are trying to save save us money, by using cheaper foreign printers. Of course UK companies have been very capable of producing passports for years, but that’s the way prefer to undercut and employ their plumbers too. They really don’t care about the UK workers and jobs, despite all their wails about ‘rights’ and deceitful forecasts of job losses.