31 minutes ago, TheDark said:

What kind of democracy is that? Let the well fed government MP's be surrounded by secrecy and keep the rest of the people, including businesses in the dark?

 

"We know what is best for our subjects. Simply follow our orders. When we are ready to release our aims and details of our aims."

 

I guess sovereignty never meant to give power to the people, but to those Eton fellows, who know and are entitled to rule the peasants. 

 

Brexit 1 - Peasant freedom 0

 

...& Ponti's nil.

Just now, evadgib said:

...& Ponti's nil.

It's not. Otherwise there would not had been a silly reply from a brexiteer. 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Because that link only refers to "government" dead you genius.

 

The statement you quoted clearly reads: 

 

In 2011, household, financial, and business debts stood at 420% of GDP in the UK. As the world's most indebted country, spending and investment were held back after the recession, creating economic malaise. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom

 

The author of the article on the UK economy in Wiki looks at total debt, your link does not. 

 

I hope you've understood the difference now.

So what?

So a trade deficit means that Britain can't pay its own way in the world anymore.

 

It is dependent on taking up debt. To service the trade deficit the UK has to take debt.

 

Debt means interest payments. It's not good for a country.

 

Especially a country that Moody's keeps downgrading because its economy is going down the toilet.

5 minutes ago, Logosone said:

So a trade deficit means that Britain can't pay its own way in the world anymore.

 

It is dependent on taking up debt. To service the trade deficit the UK has to take debt.

 

Debt means interest payments. It's not good for a country.

 

Especially a country that Moody's keeps downgrading because its economy is going down the toilet.

money in the drain is money saved

 

4 minutes ago, Logosone said:

So a trade deficit means that Britain can't pay its own way in the world anymore.

 

It is dependent on taking up debt. To service the trade deficit the UK has to take debt.

 

Debt means interest payments. It's not good for a country.

 

Especially a country that Moody's keeps downgrading because its economy is going down the toilet.

The debtors of the UK will be the people who will make a killing, especially if the debt is in USD and the Pound dives. 

 

I wonder who were the biggest supporters of Brexit? Oh, not the super wealthy bankers? Oh, not the Russian oligarchs, who have bought their properties in the UK.

 

Oh no, of course not them. Or were they the main financial supporters of Brexit? To make money out of the common people purses. To make money to themselves. Oh, they wouldn't, or would they? 

Troll comments removed

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

But most of you now must be thinking "Hold on. What have I done? It wasn't supposed to be like this."

The essence of brexiteerism is truly 'Living on a prayer' (by Bon Jovi.) 

 

That's one great song - for the eager youths. But it's probably not the best advice for a country as a whole. ????

 

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, TheDark said:

The essence of brexiteerism is truly 'Living on a prayer' (by Bon Jovi.) 

 

That's one great song - for the eager youths. But it's probably not the best advice for a country as a whole. ????

 

Which is just as well as you've never taken aim at an entire country either.

9 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Which is just as well as you've never taken aim at an entire country either.

I'm sorry if it bothers you, when I to wish that the people who are responsible of this avalanche, to take and carry their responsibility. That's what I have been saying all along. 

 

You are one strong supporters of this avalanche of brexitism. So you should carry the responsibilities, which comes down with Brexit. 

 

Be a man. Be a real man. Not only boaster about the freedoms you got. Carry also the responsibilities, which comes along with the freedom.

 

Be a real man.

2 hours ago, TheDark said:

I'm sorry if it bothers you, when I to wish that the people who are responsible of this avalanche, to take and carry their responsibility. That's what I have been saying all along. 

 

You are one strong supporters of this avalanche of brexitism. So you should carry the responsibilities, which comes down with Brexit. 

 

Be a man. Be a real man. Not only boaster about the freedoms you got. Carry also the responsibilities, which comes along with the freedom.

 

Be a real man.

I’m a man. A real man. One who is proud to be an Englishman and Brexiteer. 

Nowthen, what are you?

4 minutes ago, Loiner said:

I’m a man. A real man. One who is proud to be an Englishman and Brexiteer. 

Nowthen, what are you?

There is a bit of credibility insufficiency of what you claim to be. Based on written history.

1 hour ago, TheDark said:

There is a bit of credibility insufficiency of what you claim to be. Based on written history.

Come on Darkie. ‘Fess up. What are you? Let’s know who we are discussing with, or are you a stateless troll?

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Come on Darkie. ‘Fess up. What are you? Let’s know who we are discussing with, or are you a stateless troll?

 

Dark Wader

 

10 hours ago, TheDark said:

The debtors of the UK will be the people who will make a killing, especially if the debt is in USD and the Pound dives. 

 

 

The creditors of the UK are making money now. Because of the trade deficit and because the UK has a large population of old, non-working and a free NHS the UK is forced to go to the capital markets every year to ask for money from Japan, German and the US.

 

The creditors of the UK do not give this money for free. They ask for interest payments. Which the UK taxpayer pays. 

 

The problem is UK tax revenues are not enough to pay for the gigantic handouts the UK provides, pensions for non-working old age pensioners, free healthcare, unemployment benefits. To fund this the UK goes cap in hand to the capital markets every single year.

 

But because the economy of the UK is doing so poorly every rating agency from Moody's to Fitch keeps downgrading the UK. So the UK has to pay higher interest rates.

 

The real hour zero will come when creditor nations do not view the UK as sufficiently credit worthy anymore, due to an underperforming economy, to fund the UK's massive handout and freebie model and giant trade deficit.

 

What will the UK do then? Sing Rule Britannia and other Glory Days and hate Johnny Foreigner even more. 

 

 

 

Whilst I like the Irish very much, I'm not Irish. 

 

The very last thing I would want is an 'abode' in the UK. First of all the build quality of housing is shockingly poor in the UK and I don't like the hooligan culture either, which is very pervasive.

 

I doubt very much the hordes of immigrants will destroy the EU. The immigrants don't have Heckler & Kochs. Border police do. It's not even a balanced fight. Besides, the EU welcomes new taxpayers, unlike the UK.

 

If you think the UK is 'in a truly wonderful position' I'm afraid you live in a fantasy world.

 

A derogatory vulgar racist post has been removed.

You need to stop with the nasty comments and flames right now.

14 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Ah but you can see it coming can't you. The train wreck that is Brexit. The thing you voted for and indeed doubled down on. You can see it coming can't you?

All these hours and countless posts defending the indefensible. All this time spent deflecting reality, trying to convince yourself what you did was right. Trying day after day to counter the bad news.

It was all going so well too. All those glorious nights spent in spoonies with your fellow Brexiteers. Trading slogans in an echo chamber. They need us more than we need them. Taking back control. Independence day. Easiest trade agreement ever. 350 million a week for the NHS.

 

I dont blame you guys. You were fooled and duped by people who are professional liars.

I honestly believe you all voted how you did because you thought it was the best for the UK. I truly think that. I dont think for one second you would see the UK harmed.

 

But most of you now must be thinking "Hold on. What have I done? It wasn't supposed to be like this."

Wow this post has everything.????

 

Remainer Bingo? Check.

Insinuating people who wanted to leave all poor working class scum who drink at Wetherspoons? Check.

Implying that all Brexiteers are stupid? Check.

Implying they have all changed their minds and now agree with you? Check.

Predicting the UK's demise? Check.

 

And you wonder why you lost every single meaningful vote on the issue since 2014.

 

Watch the first 2 minutes of this, then read you post again. It's really funny how accurate satire can be ????

 

 

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

 

Whilst I like the Irish very much, I'm not Irish. 

 

The very last thing I would want is an 'abode' in the UK. First of all the build quality of housing is shockingly poor in the UK and I don't like the hooligan culture either, which is very pervasive.

 

I doubt very much the hordes of immigrants will destroy the EU. The immigrants don't have Heckler & Kochs. Border police do. It's not even a balanced fight. Besides, the EU welcomes new taxpayers, unlike the UK.

 

If you think the UK is 'in a truly wonderful position' I'm afraid you live in a fantasy world.

 

Since you brought it up...

Quote

The bill will end free movement and give the government full control of UK borders for the first time in four decades.

Landmark Immigration Bill to end free movement introduced to Parliament

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Since you brought it up...

Landmark Immigration Bill to end free movement introduced to Parliament

Did you read the fine print?

 

"EU citizens and other non-visa nationals will not require a visa to enter the UK when visiting the UK for up to 6 months."

 

This will stop Romanians coming into Britain how exactly?

 

Ah that's right, Romanians are known to be so law abiding they will of course leave after 6 months because it's against the law.

 

Brexiteers solved the immigration problem clearly very well.

 

 

29 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Wow this post has everything.????

 

Remainer Bingo? Check.

Insinuating people who wanted to leave all poor working class scum who drink at Wetherspoons? Check.

Implying that all Brexiteers are stupid? Check.

Implying they have all changed their minds and now agree with you? Check.

Predicting the UK's demise? Check

 

And you wonder why you lost every single meaningful vote on the issue since 2014.

 

Watch the first 2 minutes of this, then read you post again. It's really funny how accurate satire can be ????

Remainer Bingo?.................what on earth is the Bingo thing.

 

Insinuating people who wanted to leave all poor working class scum who drink at Wetherspoons?................. Grow up, the Spoonies thing is merely a humorous generalisation, used many times in this forum before. However, the very ugly phrase "Working class scum" is yours and yours alone, you own it. Is that what you think of them? The poster certainly never said anything remotely of the sort.

 

Implying that all Brexiteers are stupid?.................."You were fooled and duped by people who are professional liars." Many highly intelligent people get fooled by professional liars Remainers and Leavers alike.

 

Implying they have all changed their minds and now agree with you? ............Try not using the word all in every comment, "But most of you now must be thinking "Hold on. What have I done? It wasn't supposed to be like this." The poster is crediting most of you with having the knowledge and insight to realise that Brexit hasn't been all it was cracked up to be. You may take the compliment if you wish.

 

Predicting the UK's demise?  ..............The (IMO) undoubted fact that Brexit is a train wreak, does NOT mean the demise of the UK, that is hyperbole, yes hard times ahead for sure, especially for the poor. 

 

Yes - Yawn - we've all seen Mr Pie many times. 

 

Being inaccurate or simply wrong many times in one post. Check

12 hours ago, TheDark said:

I'm sorry if it bothers you, when I to wish that the people who are responsible of this avalanche, to take and carry their responsibility. That's what I have been saying all along. 

 

You are one strong supporters of this avalanche of brexitism. So you should carry the responsibilities, which comes down with Brexit. 

 

Be a man. Be a real man. Not only boaster about the freedoms you got. Carry also the responsibilities, which comes along with the freedom.

 

Be a real man.

You perhaps need reminding of how ordinary decent people were drawn into the sphere of anonymous online slag-a-thons & the actions of exactly who drew them there. Thankfully their vitriol attracted ordinary decent people in droves, resulting in last December's monumental landslide & yet they still cannot quite see how it happened? ????

 

I cannot speak for all of the above but I am on record as crediting Grouse & his 'class of 2018'* for forcing me off my Kyber in this forum as explained.

 

(*I wasn't sufficiently bothered until it became clear just how dangerous the online world, coupled with Bercow & Co in the real world/'Westminster bubble' had become & TBH I was frankly disgusted!)

 

 

25 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Did you read the fine print?

 

"EU citizens and other non-visa nationals will not require a visa to enter the UK when visiting the UK for up to 6 months."

 

This will stop Romanians coming into Britain how exactly?

 

Ah that's right, Romanians are known to be so law abiding they will of course leave after 6 months because it's against the law.

 

Brexiteers solved the immigration problem clearly very well.

Quote

"Today we’ve taken the momentous first step to end free movement and take back control of our borders, delivering on the people’s priorities".

 

12 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Remainer Bingo?.................what on earth is the Bingo thing.

 

Insinuating people who wanted to leave all poor working class scum who drink at Wetherspoons?................. Grow up, the Spoonies thing is merely a humorous generalisation, used many times in this forum before. However, the very ugly phrase "Working class scum" is yours and yours alone, you own it. Is that what you think of them? The poster certainly never said anything remotely of the sort.

 

Implying that all Brexiteers are stupid?.................."You were fooled and duped by people who are professional liars." Many highly intelligent people get fooled by professional liars Remainers and Leavers alike.

 

Implying they have all changed their minds and now agree with you? ............Try not using the word all in every comment, "But most of you now must be thinking "Hold on. What have I done? It wasn't supposed to be like this." The poster is crediting most of you with having the knowledge and insight to realise that Brexit hasn't been all it was cracked up to be. You may take the compliment if you wish.

 

Predicting the UK's demise?  ..............The (IMO) undoubted fact that Brexit is a train wreak, does NOT mean the demise of the UK, that is hyperbole, yes hard times ahead for sure, especially for the poor. 

 

Yes - Yawn - we've all seen Mr Pie many times. 

 

Being inaccurate or simply wrong many times in one post. Check

Remainer Bingo?

 

Typically we have a card with various cliches written on there. Car crash, cliff edge, red bus, racists, train wreck, people didn't vote to be poorer etc. Then we listen to a Remainer being interviewed (this works best on the BBC). Then when all of the cliches have been trotted out by the Remainer? BINGO.

 

Also works well as a drinking game ????.

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Remainer Bingo?

 

Typically we have a card with various cliches written on there. Car crash, cliff edge, red bus, racists, train wreck, people didn't vote to be poorer etc. Then we listen to a Remainer being interviewed (this works best on the BBC). Then when all of the cliches have been trotted out by the Remainer? BINGO.

 

Also works well as a drinking game ????.

Rejoiners!

57 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Today we’ve taken the momentous first step to end free movement and take back control of our borders, delivering on the people’s priorities

 

"But we'll still allow Romanians, Poles and all EU nationals to enter the UK without a visa for 6 months, hoping they'll leave afterwards". Such wonderful control you've established...

 

 

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

"But we'll still allow Romanians, Poles and all EU nationals to enter the UK without a visa for 6 months, hoping they'll leave afterwards". Such wonderful control you've established...

 

 

The EU has agreed to add the UK to the EU’s list of visa-exempt countries (of which there are currently 61). This gives British citizens the right to travel to the EU after the transition period for up to 90 days without a visa within any 180-day period. It would be conditional on the UK granting visa-free travel to EU citizens to the UK. Visas for short business trips and longer visits to the EU will be a matter for negotiation between the UK and the EU.

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The EU has agreed to add the UK to the EU’s list of visa-exempt countries (of which there are currently 61). This gives British citizens the right to travel to the EU after the transition period for up to 90 days without a visa within any 180-day period. It would be conditional on the UK granting visa-free travel to EU citizens to the UK. Visas for short business trips and longer visits to the EU will be a matter for negotiation between the UK and the EU.

 

Of course, why would we not want our wonderful British cousins to visit us? I have no problem at all with Rick Stein coming to the EU to learn about cooking.

 

But it seems a bit naive to proclaim you've established firm border controls when you'll continue to allow Poles, Romanians et al to cross your borders and remain in the UK for 6 months.

 

Do you really think Romanians and Poles will leave after 6 months? Have you been to Romania and seen how they live? 

 

I don't see how this is 'control'. You're just letting them in for free again. All the promises about 'control' of borders - just empty rhetoric.

10 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Of course, why would we not want our wonderful British cousins to visit us? I have no problem at all with Rick Stein coming to the EU to learn about cooking.

 

But it seems a bit naive to proclaim you've established firm border controls when you'll continue to allow Poles, Romanians et al to cross your borders and remain in the UK for 6 months.

 

Do you really think Romanians and Poles will leave after 6 months? Have you been to Romania and seen how they live? 

 

I don't see how this is 'control'. You're just letting them in for free again. All the promises about 'control' of borders - just empty rhetoric.

If it is the case that the Romanians and Poles don't leave after 6 months I am sure there will be further updates which may exclude Romanians and Poles from access to the UK without a Visa, The Home office have to wait for stats before going back to the EU, I suspect if the Home Office went to the EU and said of your EU citizens (Logosone) has advised us that Romanians and Poles and dodgy and can't be trusted The EU might want figures to support such a claim

52 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If it is the case that the Romanians and Poles don't leave after 6 months...

If?

 

Oh Sancta Simplicitas!