BAHTNET Problems with Immigration

[factseeker]

Hi,

Has anyone come across a problem regarding confirmation of Inward International Transfers (ITR) of funds?

My Bank uses a system called BAHTNET - I think they all do in Thailand - where ITRs arrive via SWIFT to one of a few central points  

e.g. HSBC = SWIFTCODE HSBCTHBK or Citibank = SWIFTCODE CITITHBX.

This happens automatically - there is no choice in the situation - it is part of the Banking structure.

 

Having received the ITR Funds these central points pass the Funds on to the Receivers Bank.

 

My Bank states they still accept these as  ITRs but as it is a two step process inform that Immigration  view them as a Domestic Transfer - so not accepted by them as evidence of International income etc. when used to apply for a Visa.

 

Bank says this is the case since beginning  2018 and indeed one of my Banks now uses a different Teller Code than previously - now BNT00001 with DOMESTIC MONEY TRANSFER description on the Statement - the other Bank still has the same TFR Coding just as since started 2012.

 

The way it worked before was that I simply went to my Bank the Day before Visa Renewal and they gave me a letter stating what I held at the Bank - the + 800K  - I made sure it tallied with photo copies of my Pay Book.

For past five years - simples!!

 

Now my Bank states that I have to approach both HSBC = SWIFTCODE HSBCTHBK and Citibank = SWIFTCODE CITITHBX to obtain a Letter or Certificates confirming they received the Funds via ITRs  which they then passed on to my Bank.

 

QUOTE from Bank.

''So if the customer would like to have the Letter or the Certificate for Intl Transfer, they have to bring all the receipts or the documents + their original passport + their original bankbook of their bank to the first Bank to issue a Certificate for them.'' 

I have all that available - in  .pdf form.

 

But HSBC is all the way to Bangkok - Citi Bank I would not know - Chiang Mai?

Plus getting hold of the right Department all but impossible - ever tried to find an email for a Bank if you are not a Client or even if you are.

These days it seems to be only a phone - with music etc.

Edited February 19, 2020 by factseeker

[saengd]

Which is your bank in Thailand, Citibank?

 

Bahtnet is used for domestic transfers within Thailand.

 

If you are transferring from HSBC UK to Thailand, the route it takes will depend on which receiving bank is used and this is a function of the SWIFT system. For example, HSBC doesn't have a SWIFT relationship with Bangkok Bank in Thailand so HSBC sends the funds to Natwest UK who does have that relationship. In that example the transfer to Bangkok Bank from Natwest is direct.

 

In another example, UOB Thailand has a relationship with HSBC UK so the transfer is direct, bank to bank.

 

From what you've written it sounds as though Citibank receives overseas transfers from HSBC UK, via another Thai bank who then transfers the funds via Bahtnet to Citibank. HSBC does not however have a retail banking presence in Thailand any longer so your post is a little bit confusing, perhaps you can clarify?

 

[factseeker]

2 hours ago, saengd said:

Which is your bank in Thailand, Citibank?

 

Bahtnet is used for domestic transfers within Thailand.

 

If you are transferring from HSBC UK to Thailand, the route it takes will depend on which receiving bank is used and this is a function of the SWIFT system. For example, HSBC doesn't have a SWIFT relationship with Bangkok Bank in Thailand so HSBC sends the funds to Natwest UK who does have that relationship. In that example the transfer to Bangkok Bank from Natwest is direct.

 

In another example, UOB Thailand has a relationship with HSBC UK so the transfer is direct, bank to bank.

 

From what you've written it sounds as though Citibank receives overseas transfers from HSBC UK, via another Thai bank who then transfers the funds via Bahtnet to Citibank. HSBC does not however have a retail banking presence in Thailand any longer so your post is a little bit confusing, perhaps you can clarify?

 

 

Hello saengd

I apologise I have made it too complicated.

As far as I am concerned both my Pensions come direct from UK to my Thai Bank - but enroute to me they pass through the SWIFT BAHTNET system.

On that basis they are not paid to me directly from UK but via either HSBC  or Citibank within SWIFT BAHTNET - I presume in Bangkok - who initially receive the funds and then send them on to my Thai Bank.

So as I understand it Immigration now consider my Funds to have come from the BAHNET Bank that initially received the funds from UK and that it is therefore a 'Local Transfer' to my Thai Bank.

So it is from the SWIFT BAHNET Bank that initially received my funds from UK that I need a confirmation letter  - not my own Thai Bank.

That is what I am informed - is it correct?

 

Because up to now I have just had a simple letter from my Thai Bank confirming the totality of my Funds above the 800k level and my Paybooks showing it has been there since way back.

The system worked just fine the last 5 years - just the small hassle to get the Bank Letter on Visa renewal day.

 

Best Rgds

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by factseeker

[saengd]

SWIFT is the worldwide international transfer system, BAHTNET is the homegrown domestic transfer leg that sends money between financial institutions, they are totally separate systems.

 

If the UK sending bank is HSBC UK, it will depend on which bank receives those funds in order to understand what happens next. From what you've written, somebody takes those funds as soon as they are received in Thailand and puts them into Bahtnet for onward transfer. Why would they do that I wonder, is it because the funds are sent to a bank in Thailand that is not your bank because HSBC UK doesn't have a Swift relationship with your bank? Dunno.

 

BTW Bahtnet is not a bank, it is a money transfer system like BACS and all Thai banks have access to it.

 

So my question again, who is your Thai bank?

[canthai55]

Simple solution. Open a Bangkok Bank account.

Mine are direct transfer.

In the past never had good luck dealing with HSBC - told me for extra perks I should deposit a Mil - 555

[saengd]

Others will no doubt chip in with answers to this problem but let me just add this:

 

Your transfer from HSBC to Thailand is governed by the SWIFT code that they have for that transfer, as far as I am aware each bank in Thailand has a single SWIFT code which is typically their head office, the onward transmission of that transfer to the account holder is then made based on the account number, not the SWIFT code. 

 

In your case HSBC is sending funds to a SWIFT code in Thailand which is a bank that is not your bank, that suggests that HSBC UK does not have a banking relationship with your bank and that they are using another intermediary or correspondent bank to receive that transfer from the UK. That intermediary or correspondent bank is then completing the journey of those funds, to your bank, by using Bahtnet, your bank then receives those funds as a Bahtnet transfer rather than an international funds transfer.

 

The SWIFT relationship between banks changes all the time, usually it seems to be a cost cutting measure. I was surprised when Bangkok Bank was dropped from the HSBC Swift address list, I understand they did that in order to outsource funds transfers to Thailand, to Natwest UK.

 

Here's a list of all the Swift codes, if you know which bank HSBC is sending to you can easily see if that is your bank or not. https://www.theswiftcodes.com/

[Moonlover]

I had 2 UK pensions paid directly into my Krungsri account and they both showed up as BATHNET, but this was not an issue when I went to the bank. They were able to download foreign exchange transaction forms (FETS) for all the deposits. They were stamped and signed on the spot. Job done.

 

N.B. I have since switched to using TransferWise which greatly reduces the amount of paperwork I need to prove my income.

[saengd]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I had 2 UK pensions paid directly into my Krungsri account and they both showed up as BATHNET, but this was not an issue when I went to the bank. They were able to download foreign exchange transaction forms (FETS) for all the deposits. They were stamped and signed on the spot. Job done.

 

N.B. I have since switched to using TransferWise which greatly reduces the amount of paperwork I need to prove my income.

Did you ever find out why an international transfer was coded as Bahtnet?

[Rama]

Found your posting a little confusing. I have HSBC and do a SWIFT transfer to my Bangkok Bank every month. There is no HSBC Thailand or Bangkok. HSBC Thailand closed operations about 8 or 9 years ago. I specify a SWIFT transfer to Bangkok Bank's SWIFT code, always goes direct to Bangkok Bank always shows up as an FTT transfer. It will be up to the immigration officer on the particular day you go whether they understand and accept BAHTNET. You're rolling the dice by using BAHTNET rather than a direct SWIFT transfer from HSBC to Bangkok Bank.

[factseeker]

Ref rolling dice - I have no choices in this situation.

One pension is a UK Private Pension and the other pension is the UK Gov State Pension,

 

They were/are organised to send directly to my Thai Banks via SWIFT.

That simple - I sent them details back in 2012 and until start 2018 all was well.

I have changed absolutely nothing since the inception 2012.

Now as I am informed I am faced with this nonsense.

Thank heaven I did not buy a Condo or something like that

 

[saengd]

3 minutes ago, factseeker said:

Ref rolling dice - I have no choices in this situation.

One pension is a UK Private Pension and the other pension is the UK Gov State Pension,

 

They were/are organised to send directly to my Thai Banks via SWIFT.

That simple - I sent them details back in 2012 and until start 2018 all was well.

I have changed absolutely nothing since the inception 2012.

Now as I am informed I am faced with this nonsense.

Thank heaven I did not buy a Condo or something like that

 

BUT, the banks may have changed the way they do international transfers and who they deal with, that is not uncommon.

[factseeker]

8 hours ago, saengd said:

SWIFT is the worldwide international transfer system, BAHTNET is the homegrown domestic transfer leg that sends money between financial institutions, they are totally separate systems.

 

If the UK sending bank is HSBC UK, it will depend on which bank receives those funds in order to understand what happens next. From what you've written, somebody takes those funds as soon as they are received in Thailand and puts them into Bahtnet for onward transfer. Why would they do that I wonder, is it because the funds are sent to a bank in Thailand that is not your bank because HSBC UK doesn't have a Swift relationship with your bank? Dunno.

 

BTW Bahtnet is not a bank, it is a money transfer system like BACS and all Thai banks have access to it.

 

So my question again, who is your Thai bank?

Hi saengd

 

Yes I know exactly how it all works and what is what.

 

One pension is a UK Private Pension and the other pension is the UK Gov State Pension,

 

They were/are organised to send directly to my Thai Banks via SWIFT.

That is the information they asked for when I started the Pensions.

That simple - I sent them details back in 2012 and until start 2018 all was well.

I have changed absolutely nothing since the inception 2012.

Now as I am informed I am faced with this nonsense.

Thank heaven I did not buy a Condo - more down a 'black hole'?

All a pity.

[factseeker]

8 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Simple solution. Open a Bangkok Bank account.

Mine are direct transfer.

In the past never had good luck dealing with HSBC - told me for extra perks I should deposit a Mil - 555

Hi canthai55

 

I thought mine were - are you sure - because if so I will switch to stop this nonsense.

[saengd]

1 minute ago, factseeker said:

Hi saengd

 

Yes I know exactly how it all works and what is what.

 

One pension is a UK Private Pension and the other pension is the UK Gov State Pension,

 

They were/are organised to send directly to my Thai Banks via SWIFT.

That is the information they asked for when I started the Pensions.

That simple - I sent them details back in 2012 and until start 2018 all was well.

I have changed absolutely nothing since the inception 2012.

Now as I am informed I am faced with this nonsense.

Thank heaven I did not buy a Condo - more down a 'black hole'?

All a pity.

In your posts you have variously referred to Bahtnet as Bahtnet Bank and despite asking you several times you haven't disclosed the name of your Thai bank, I'm sorry I can't help you further and I'm happy that you understand how it all works and what is what! Out

[factseeker]

5 minutes ago, saengd said:

BUT, the banks may have changed the way they do international transfers and who they deal with, that is not uncommon.

But that doesn't help me.

[Thailand]

What is your bank in Thailand?

[factseeker]

1 minute ago, saengd said:

In your posts you have variously referred to Bahtnet as Bahtnet Bank and despite asking you several times you haven't disclosed the name of your Thai bank, I'm sorry I can't help you further and I'm happy that you understand how it all works and what is what! Out

By 'BAHTNET bank' I was referring to those big main banks that act as a 'clearing house'.

It is not of my choice who sends the Funds - it is the Pension funds that decide that.

Please don't take umbrage I am appreciative of the time you have spent.

But it seems a general thing - not tied to any individual bank.

Any Client who uses a Thai Bank that uses BAHTNET I would think has the same problem.

 

I understand there are quite few Clients who are quite worried by this turn of events.

Rgds

[saengd]

14 minutes ago, Thailand said:

What is your bank in Thailand?

It's a secret bank, account holders are not allowed to divulge or it's cyanide capsule time.

[Thailand]

If your Bank is Bangkok Bank a 12 month statement will show another designation at the last column-GPSD which indicates money from overseas. If your bank is a secret no problem.

[factseeker]

7 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I had 2 UK pensions paid directly into my Krungsri account and they both showed up as BATHNET, but this was not an issue when I went to the bank. They were able to download foreign exchange transaction forms (FETS) for all the deposits. They were stamped and signed on the spot. Job done.

 

N.B. I have since switched to using TransferWise which greatly reduces the amount of paperwork I need to prove my income.

Hi Moonlover,

 

I will take your comment back to my two Banks that receive my Pensions - one does not appear to be raising this point - but it receives via CITIBANK.

My other Bank - the one I 'quote'' - raised it as a helpful point/warning  - so I do not want to betray a confidence by mentioning which bank.

Apparently HSBC is the Bank within BAHTNET which is the first to get it's hands on the money as it arrives in Thailand and who then pass it to my 'Quoting' Thai Bank.

That is what is causing the problem.

I will let you know what my Bank says ref your comment - thnxs.

Rgds.

 

[factseeker]

2 minutes ago, Thailand said:

If your Bank is Bangkok Bank a 12 month statement will show another designation at the last column-GPSD which indicates money from overseas. If your bank is a secret no problem.

Hi Thailand,

I try to be a reasonably decent sort of chap ;o)) - not really a secret - see my Moon lover comment.

 

Your comment may be useful will take to 'my' Bank,   Thnxs

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, saengd said:

Did you ever find out why an international transfer was coded as Bahtnet?

Because Citibank Thailand is the intermediary so the 'final mile' is domestic, hence BAHTNET.

[factseeker]

9 minutes ago, saengd said:

It's a secret bank, account holders are not allowed to divulge or it's cyanide capsule time.

Hi Saengd,

 

I cyanide is your thing - OK with me - I prefer a Chang Beer - If I could get my hands on one right now!

Best Rgds

[factseeker]

1 minute ago, Moonlover said:

Because Citibank Thailand is the intermediary so the 'final mile' is domestic, hence BAHTNET.

Absolutely correct apart from the mileage - Chiang Mai - Bangkok - ;o) - I would not mind so much - but all the way to Bangkok.

 

HSBC - A very aggressive lady threw my wife and I out of there on first visit to Bangkok maybe circa 2005. when we visited to talk about opening an Account.

I understand they closed down since then but must still be involved in BAHTNET.

 

But try contacting any Bank and in particular the right department from a distance - hell.

Apparently this is just for Immigration - my Bank seem still happy to treat then as Intl Trnsfers.

 

Last 5 years have been really really nice - with circa 6 months Thai side - now this stuff.

Apparently others are wading through this as well.

Best Rgds

[opalred]

i had a problem as oz pension goes to citi bank first /then put in to my Bangkok bank

so i changed to married visa no problem

[canthai55]

54 minutes ago, factseeker said:

Hi canthai55

 

I thought mine were - are you sure - because if so I will switch to stop this nonsense.

Mine get deposited monthly. Always direct from Canada bank to BKK bank

Of course - this being where it is - I can now expect to have a kerfluffle happen too !!!

In Sha Allah

[Moonlover]

7 minutes ago, factseeker said:

Absolutely correct apart from the mileage - Chiang Mai - Bangkok - ;o) - I would not mind so much - but all the way to Bangkok.

 

HSBC - A very aggressive lady threw my wife and I out of there on first visit to Bangkok maybe circa 2005. when we visited to talk about opening an Account.

I understand they closed down since then but must still be involved in BAHTNET.

 

But try contacting any Bank and in particular the right department from a distance - hell.

Apparently this is just for Immigration - my Bank seem still happy to treat then as Intl Trnsfers.

 

Last 5 years have been really really nice - with circa 6 months Thai side - now this stuff.

Apparently others are wading through this as well.

Best Rgds

Hope you can get this muddle sorted out.

 

As mentioned in my first post, I now have all my pensions (3) paid into TransferWise and transferred out here as one payment per month. It's very easy to prove to the IO that they are international deposits and I don't have to ask the bank to provide that proof. It's a reliable DIY method.

[moe666]

Every month I do a swift transfer to my BKK bank account and it shows up as a ftt from my US bank. 

[saengd]

This is still confusing, HSBC doesn't have retail operations in Thailand any longer, only a commercial office for trade purposes, I don't see how they could be the subject of a UK SWIFT transfer since SWIFT requires a retail SWIFT code!

 

AND HSBC UK uses Natwest UK for its international transfers to Thailand where Bangkok Bank is the receiving bank.

 

Moonlover: I understand about Bahtnet being the final leg but where those funds are received in Thailand is a mystery to me yet the OP says he thinks HSBC is the first link in the Bahtnet chain, sorry but that doesn't seem possible given the retail license issue.

[Bill97]

There are combinations of banks and systems that produce immigration acceptable data.  Talk around, read and set up one.  Easier than trying to use/change a non comparable arrangemene.