Is this a good time to buy a Condo?

[Leaver]

22 hours ago, how241 said:

The hardest thing is to drop the hammer,  and buy or sell.  For some,  who never ending up doing anything,  the price is NEVER good enough.  This applies to both buying and  selling.  It's always a guessing game and you need some luck on your side. IMHO

No guessing for me. 

 

I have never seen the need to buy in Thailand.  The money I would spend buying a property, that I can not truly own, is better left in my home country, earning around 6%, with no exposure to Thailand's foreign ownership of property laws, visa law changes, and no exposure to Pattaya's housing market.  Not to mention a depreciating asset and leaving my kids a headache in Thailand when the end comes for me.

 

  

[Leaver]

21 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

the only way a 3m condo will go for 1m is if they stop retirement visas

Or, the current generation of retirees are not replaced by the next generation of retirees, due to the higher cost of living in Thailand, the strong baht, weak western currencies, visa laws with stricter conditions, and an oversupply of property because they keep building more and more.

 

Then, there's that little issue of insurance being attached to retirement visas.  

 

Thailand is not pulling in the amount of western retirees it once did, and Mr. Wong from China, and Mr. Patel from India, who had a holiday here, have no intention of holidaying here again, let alone taking a Thai bride and retiring here.    

[Leaver]

21 hours ago, newnative said:

Foreigners can buy condos in company name so you could have a condo project with more foreign and company owners than Thai owners. 

This has been discussed.  It is ILLEGAL for a foreigner to set up a company for the purpose of owning property in Thailand. 

 

21 hours ago, newnative said:

Your post implies an us vs. them dynamic with foreign and Thai owners, with Thai owners having the upper hand.

No, I don't imply it, it is a fact.  51% is bigger than 49%.  Any condo block with foreigners owning more then 49% faces potential legal problems. 

 

But of course, everyone else is doing it, and the Thai's would lose too much money so they will never enforce it.  ????

 

21 hours ago, newnative said:

Both Thai and foreign owners have in common a large investment they have made and want to protect so they are not always working at cross purposes.  

And if they were working at cross purposes, foreigners would always lose because they are out voted. 

 

21 hours ago, newnative said:

I would strongly disagree that a foreign owner's vote is 'worthless' under any scenario.  And, by the way, if a developer has managed to hold on to 51% of the vote, (something I have only rarely seen and mostly with new projects with unsold units)

So, you strongly disagree, but then say you have seen it, and it does happen.

[Leaver]

21 hours ago, newnative said:

     In most cases, a developer is in the business of building a condo project, selling the units, and moving on to the next project.  The developer makes money when he sells a unit, not when he holds on to it and has to pay condo maintenance fees on it.  Once the developer sells a unit, he no longer has that share to vote.  In order to maintain 51% of the vote, he would have to not sell 51% of a condo project.  Doubt that happens unless the developer has been unable to find buyers for his condo project.   

How many buyers have been in the market in recent years?

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I expect there is actually no restriction on a Thai owning condos which are in the 49% foreign allocation, if they are prepared to pay the elevated price. If he sees it as a good capital gain investment or income opportunity why not. 

When it comes to a vote, it would surely be easier to round up all the Thai owners than foreigners who are spread all over the globe. 

Sure, however, even if they could round them all up, they wouldn't be in a fair voting pool.

[how241]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

depreciating asset

Really.  I paid 400-450K  for my condos  and now they sell for 650K-740K.  Not to mention collecting rent money every month.  Some of your points are valid IF  you really are collecting 6%.  If your in stocks,  you might find that average drop down considerably next year. Nothing wrong with renting as it does have its advantages. The 'rent vs. buying'  topic has been done to death. Each has their good/bad points and it all depends on your individual situation. 

Edited March 10, 2020 by how241

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, how241 said:

Maybe theoretically possible,  But I have NEVER heard of anything like that happening in Thailand.  You worry too much.

It doesn't worry me because I don't own here, and it's not about being theoretically possible, it's about being mathematically possible, due to Thailand's foreign ownership of property laws. 

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, how241 said:

Really.  I paid 400-450K  for my condos  and now they sell for 650K-740K. 

Are they really selling???? 

[how241]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

It doesn't worry me because I don't own here, and it's not about being theoretically possible, it's about being mathematically possible, due to Thailand's foreign ownership of property laws. 

Theoretically - mathematically, yes but in reality it just does not happen.  In Nirun, there are almost 2,000 condos so no one would try to own 51%  just to control the voting. No one is trying to convince anyone to buy if they are happy renting. 

[how241]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Are they really selling???? 

Yes,  the man I was discussing selling to  last week just told me he just bought for 660K from another seller. I wanted a higher number as I am in no rush or need to sell. Low priced condos are usually easy to sell or rent as there is limited price competition. 

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, how241 said:

Theoretically - mathematically, yes but in reality it just does not happen.  In Nirun, there are almost 2,000 condos so no one would try to own 51%  just to control the voting. No one is trying to convince anyone to buy if they are happy renting. 

It's not about anyone trying to buy the majority of condo's, for example, Nirun condo's, for control.

 

It's about Thailand's foreign ownership of property laws not allowing foreigners an equal vote, despite paying good money for their condo.  

 

There is also the issue that should they ever decide to investigate and enforce the 51% to 49% law, in my opinion, many condo blocks would be found to be in breach of this law, and one could get caught up in a mess. 

[Leaver]

10 minutes ago, how241 said:

Yes,  the man I was discussing selling to  last week just told me he just bought for 660K from another seller. I wanted a higher number as I am in no rush or need to sell. Low priced condos are usually easy to sell or rent as there is limited price competition. 

So, you are using only one sale for the "comparable sales method" of valuation.  What if that one sale was an "out of line sale?" 

[Airalee]

40 minutes ago, how241 said:

Yes,  the man I was discussing selling to  last week just told me he just bought for 660K from another seller. I wanted a higher number as I am in no rush or need to sell. Low priced condos are usually easy to sell or rent as there is limited price competition. 

So what you’re saying is that you are asking too much.  And being that you don’t have a renter in there, it’s dead money.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, how241 said:

Maybe theoretically possible,  But I have NEVER heard of anything like that happening in Thailand.  You worry too much.

     Actually, not even theoretically possible, according to Thai Condo Law.  The decision to revoke a condominium, perhaps a developer wants to buy the project, is not done by majority vote.  Under Thai Condominium Law, Section 51, #2, the vote to revoke a condominium has to be unanimous by the joint-owners.   Of course, even if it could be done by a simple majority vote, it's absurd to assume, as the troll has, that all Thai owners would vote to sell and all foreign owners would vote to stay--and the poor foreign owners, being in the minority, would be thrown into the street.  Boo hoo.  If I'm ever offered a big pot of money by a developer for one of my condos, this foreign owner will be first in line to sell.  

[Leaver]

32 minutes ago, newnative said:

     Actually, not even theoretically possible, according to Thai Condo Law.  The decision to revoke a condominium, perhaps a developer wants to buy the project, is not done by majority vote.  Under Thai Condominium Law, Section 51, #2, the vote to revoke a condominium has to be unanimous by the joint-owners.   Of course, even if it could be done by a simple majority vote, it's absurd to assume, as the troll has, that all Thai owners would vote to sell and all foreign owners would vote to stay--and the poor foreign owners, being in the minority, would be thrown into the street.  Boo hoo.  If I'm ever offered a big pot of money by a developer for one of my condos, this foreign owner will be first in line to sell.  

You are focusing on the most extreme scenario of a vote.  What about all the minor scenarios which also require a vote, in which the 49% of foreign ownership can effectively have no say at all on the outcome? 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Airalee said:

So what you’re saying is that you are asking too much.  And being that you don’t have a renter in there, it’s dead money.

    I think you missed his key point--he is in no rush or need to sell.  When I post that I have sold 19 condos in Thailand, all at a profit, some people doubt me.  But, I am the same as how241--I'm never in a rush or in a need to sell.  So, if I don't need the money and I'm not in a hurry, why would I sell at a loss?  I wait for a buyer to come along and, so far, a buyer has come along for all 19.  Sometimes they arrive fast, sometimes slow.  

    In regard to 'asking too much', there are lots of factors that will make one condo more valuable than others in a project.  When I listed one of my 2 bedroom condos for sale, one realtor refused to list it because he felt it was priced too high in relation to other condos in the building.  It's true I had priced it considerably higher but I had also done a big renovation that made it quite different and better than other condos in the building.  It was also one of only a few condos in the building with a bathtub as well as a shower in the master bath.  It was also on a very high floor in the best position in the building.  And, in foreign quota, which was sold out.

     All these things go into pricing.  And, a couple more things--believing in your product and doing your research.  The realtor that rejected my listing said my condo was only worth  around 8.5MB, about what others in the project were going for.  A waste of time to list it, he said.

     I thought it was worth about 2MB more because, at the time, there was a similar-size 2 bedroom condo at the Base, not as nice as mine, listed for 10MB.  And, a close-by older condo project also had similar size condos, some in need of renovation, in the 10MB and up range.  I figured a buyer might choose my spiffy condo over the plain Jane one at the Base and the un-renovated ones at the other project.   I wasn't in a rush but soon enough a buyer came along and bought at close to my asking price.  

     

[Airalee]

33 minutes ago, newnative said:

    I think you missed his key point--he is in no rush or need to sell.  When I post that I have sold 19 condos in Thailand, all at a profit, some people doubt me.  But, I am the same as how241--I'm never in a rush or in a need to sell.  So, if I don't need the money and I'm not in a hurry, why would I sell at a loss?  I wait for a buyer to come along and, so far, a buyer has come along for all 19.  Sometimes they arrive fast, sometimes slow.  

    In regard to 'asking too much', there are lots of factors that will make one condo more valuable than others in a project.  When I listed one of my 2 bedroom condos for sale, one realtor refused to list it because he felt it was priced too high in relation to other condos in the building.  It's true I had priced it considerably higher but I had also done a big renovation that made it quite different and better than other condos in the building.  It was also one of only a few condos in the building with a bathtub as well as a shower in the master bath.  It was also on a very high floor in the best position in the building.  And, in foreign quota, which was sold out.

     All these things go into pricing.  And, a couple more things--believing in your product and doing your research.  The realtor that rejected my listing said my condo was only worth  around 8.5MB, about what others in the project were going for.  A waste of time to list it, he said.

     I thought it was worth about 2MB more because, at the time, there was a similar-size 2 bedroom condo at the Base, not as nice as mine, listed for 10MB.  And, a close-by older condo project also had similar size condos, some in need of renovation, in the 10MB and up range.  I figured a buyer might choose my spiffy condo over the plain Jane one at the Base and the un-renovated ones at the other project.   I wasn't in a rush but soon enough a buyer came along and bought at close to my asking price.  

     

Yeah...but you’re comparing apples with oranges.  Or...more like apples and poop.  Have you seen the photos of his place on the listing?  He didn’t even take time to clean the room.  There is clutter on the tables.  Ok...I know...it’s Nirun, so that’s probably to be expected.

 

On another topic, I could tell a great story about an offer I put in on a condo last week.  Told the agent what my offer would be (X) and that no matter what, I wouldn’t go above (Y).  So agent thinks my original offer would be too low and I wouldn’t even get a counter offer.  Sooooo... if I come up a little on the initial offer...somewhere between “X” and “Y”, he could convince the seller to agree to “Y”.

 

I agree to let him proceed with the offer....and for what it’s worth...yes..it was a serious offer.

 

I get an email from the agent with a counteroffer and a copy of the email he sent the owner with my offer...which remember...was to be between X and Y.  The agent offered Y and came up with a counteroffer of “Z”.

 

Guess who’s not making a sale.
 

So...it’s not the right time to buy a condo when agents are so dishonest.

[how241]

2 hours ago, Airalee said:

So what you’re saying is that you are asking too much.  And being that you don’t have a renter in there, it’s dead money.

Nice try, But NO...Wrong.  Just because I am holding out for a higher price does Not mean I am asking too much.  As I posted already,  I don't need the money and I am not in a rush.  The previous renter just left after 6.5 years,  so I am doing quite well. Before her,  the renter stayed 2 years.  Dead money ??   The monthly service charge is 300 baht...I can afford that  ...

[how241]

15 minutes ago, Airalee said:

There is clutter on the tables

Really ??? Please show me the clutter.  Maybe post some pics of YOUR uncluttered living space...  It is not a high priced unit.  Why are you trying nick-pick everything and everybody.  We all get it,  you don't like the rental or real estate market.  Many people enjoy this as a hobby  and make good money while doing it.  

[Airalee]

8 minutes ago, how241 said:

Dead money ??   The monthly service charge is 300 baht...I can afford that  ...

Oh...I’m sorry.  That would make it a negative burn.

[how241]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

So, you are using only one sale for the "comparable sales method" of valuation.  What if that one sale was an "out of line sale?" 

If I don't sell it I will just rent it again.  My condos are almost always rented. My first condo has the same Thai man living there for about 10 years now.  His rent money made it a free condo for me. For the first 7 years I lived here I never had any condos empty for more than 3 weeks.  It's a good return and I let my  Thai girlfriend handle almost everything.  I keep all the properties in her name.  Sure now you can start with all the bad Thai girl talk...haha...Maybe after 11 years she will run away...It happens but I am not worried. 

[Airalee]

14 minutes ago, how241 said:

Really ??? Please show me the clutter.  Maybe post some pics of YOUR uncluttered living space...  It is not a high priced unit.  Why are you trying nick-pick everything and everybody.  We all get it,  you don't like the rental or real estate market.  Many people enjoy this as a hobby  and make good money while doing it.  

I saw the ad on Bahtsold.  You couldn’t even put away the bottles of cleaner nor get that roll of masking tape off the coffee table.  Are those dirty paper towels next to the spray bottle?  And is that a half empty beer bottle on the coffee table? That’s pretty damn lazy when you’re trying to sell a place.  
 

I’m quite OCD when it comes to my living spaces and even more-so when I have sold in the past.  I don’t even let my girlfriend clean my place because I would have to follow after her and redo everything.

 

Now...if you would like to go and start a thread about how wonderful your place is and what a successful landlord you are, that would be great.  But this thread is for us to poke fun at the real estate market and you, with your posting, made yourself fair game.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Airalee

[how241]

9 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Oh...I’m sorry.  That would make it a negative burn.

It's been empty for 1 month so I have lost 300 baht.  Can someone float me a loan ??  haha ....When I sell it for 20-30K  more than I was recently offered I will make out quite well. 

[topt]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

It's about Thailand's foreign ownership of property laws not allowing foreigners an equal vote, despite paying good money for their condo.  

 

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

You are focusing on the most extreme scenario of a vote.  What about all the minor scenarios which also require a vote, in which the 49% of foreign ownership can effectively have no say at all on the outcome? 

Have you ever attended a condo/village AGM here? Why do you assume that the Thai owners will be diametrically opposed to what the foreign owners would want or vice versa? Most owners want whats best for them as long as it does not inconvenience them too much.

In those terms for overall voting the 51/49 split IMHO is a complete red herring.

 

 

[how241]

1 minute ago, Airalee said:

I saw the ad on Bahtsold.  You couldn’t even put away the bottles of cleaner nor get that roll of masking tape off the coffee table.  Are those dirty paper towels next to the spray bottle?  And is that a half empty beer bottle on the coffee table? That’s pretty damn lazy when you’re trying to sell a place.  

Show me the pic.  I don't drink beer so I know you are wrong. Do you really think that someone will rent or buy without coming to look at the place ???  Just looking for something-anything to pick on...Have fun !!!

[Airalee]

1 minute ago, how241 said:

Show me the pic.  I don't drink beer so I know you are wrong. Do you really think that someone will rent or buy without coming to look at the place ???  Just looking for something-anything to pick on...Have fun !!!

I added the pic to my post.  Seriously...clean up the clutter before you take pictures.  Throw some sheets on the bed too.

[how241]

7 minutes ago, Airalee said:

But this thread is for us to poke fun at the real estate market and you, with your posting, made yourself fair game.

Reread the original OP post.  That is your interpretation of what this thread is about.  

[how241]

4 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Throw some sheets on the bed too.

Many people, especially renters, want to see the condition of the mattress.  You sell your properties the way YOU want to....Oh, I forgot,  you will never buy anything and thus Never have anything to sell.  Still waiting to see a photo of your super nice, super clean place. 

[Airalee]

1 minute ago, how241 said:

Many people, especially renters, want to see the condition of the mattress.  You sell your properties the way YOU want to....Oh, I forgot,  you will never buy anything and thus Never have anything to sell.  Still waiting to see a photo of your super nice, super clean place. 

Oh...the old “you will never buy anything” canard.  I’m currently in the market to buy but double digit iq agents are hard to deal with.

[how241]

9 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Oh...the old “you will never buy anything” canard.  I’m currently in the market to buy but double digit iq agents are hard to deal with.

How many Years have you been in the market to buy ???   haha...Just having fun .  I'm sure you will be a happy owner soon...lol