SAFE-T-CUT TRIPPING DAILY

[livram]

6 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Are those small red logo's on all the time or just when tripped?

Logo's are just a sticker I think, do not see how they could glow.

[Crossy]

8 minutes ago, livram said:

That is what I have concluded but I don't see it glowing red after using the test switch.

 

Like I noted earlier, it's not actually a light, you may need to look closely ????

 

[livram]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

Like I noted earlier, it's not actually a light, you may need to look closely ????

 

I looked closely and see no red glow, a lot of light in the kitchen. 

 

Also, I ran 2 A/C's plus shower heater and water pump for 5 minutes and no tripping. Added microwave and rice cooker and tripped after 2 minutes. Checked but could see no red glow.

 

My daughter sneaked out with her husband (my helper- haha) and locked her door. She turned off her a/c, etc That is the reason I only ran 2 A/c's.

[Metropolitian]

19 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Isn't this it?

Yep but looks like it is hollow, maybe tripped too much and the indicator is stuck.

 

Anyway, OP, can you remember an red block showing in this square hole before?

 

In normal condition when this 3 gang main switch is tripped the red indicator will says if it was a leak-trip (red) or an overload trip (not red)

 

This newer model has the label  'Red = Leakage' on it.

 

 

 

[livram]

3 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Yep but looks like it is hollow, maybe tripped too much and the indicator is stuck.

 

Anyway, OP, can you remember an red block showing in this square hole before?

 

In normal condition when this 3 gang main switch is tripped the red indicator will says if it was a leak-trip (red) or an overload trip (not red)

 

This newer model has the label  'Red = Leakage' on it.

 

 

 

I do not remember ever seeing the red glow indicator but then again I haven't really had any problems since I got the safe_t-cut, Last December the shower heater was tripping but that was caused by Lime build up in the heater element which caused water to spray inside the heater case. Stribon sent techs to replace.

[sometimewoodworker]

17 minutes ago, livram said:

I looked closely and see no red glow, a lot of light in the kitchen. 

I think that there will be no glow, the plastic behind the small hole will have 2 colours. The second colour is red and you should see that if there has been a RCBO line/neutral trip  but not if it’s an over current trip. 
 

at the moment it is not clear which you have

[sometimewoodworker]

 

 

something to pass the time

and 1 more

 

[livram]

4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I think that there will be no glow, the plastic behind the small hole will have 2 colours. The second colour is red and you should see that if there has been a RCBO line/neutral trip  but not if it’s an over current trip. 
 

at the moment it is not clear which you have

Had another set of eyes take a look at the small hole. Same color when electric on and same when tripped via test switch or tripped when running a/c's and water heater.

[Metropolitian]

7 minutes ago, livram said:

I do not remember ever seeing the red glow indicator but then again I haven't really had any problems since I got the safe_t-cut, Last December the shower heater was tripping but that was caused by Lime build up in the heater element which caused water to spray inside the heater case. Stribon sent techs to replace.

Stribon.. never heard of. Stiebel Eltron ?

 

 

6 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I think that there will be no glow, the plastic behind the small hole will have 2 colours. The second colour is red and you should see that if there has been a RCBO line/neutral trip  but not if it’s an over current trip.

at the moment it is not clear which you have

It will look like this :

 

    

Switched off caused by Overload

 

Switched off caused by Leakage

 

 

 

Lets all assume for now that the indicator 'works' and it is not a leakage but focus on the overload.

Possible causes:

* Faulty main breaker

* Current goes over the limit, the voltage drop to the A/C or heater is high.  (Measuring at the wall socket inside isn't best measuring point. At the CU it is.)

* Anyone.. ?

 

It can be a leaking issue, and the indicator is stuck.

I had a RCCB before which had a misaligned indicator, it still worked but no indication but shut off fine at 30mA

 

 

 

Measure the voltage drop of the whole circuit by measuring at the CU when everything is turned on.

 

85636986b17311b8e5275513f08cfd6d.jfif

[sometimewoodworker]

1 minute ago, livram said:

Had another set of eyes take a look at the small hole. Same color when electric on and same when tripped via test switch or tripped when running a/c's and water heater.

That suggest that there could be a fault as if you look at the videos above you will see that there should be a colour change.

 

get the eyes to keep looking through the hole with a torch while you trip the RCBO and while the power trips it. They should see movement the paint may have failed.

 

you still need the readings Crossy asked for

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

More fun

 

 

 

 

[livram]

6 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That suggest that there could be a fault as if you look at the videos above you will see that there should be a colour change.

 

get the eyes to keep looking through the hole with a torch while you trip the RCBO and while the power trips it. They should see movement the paint may have failed.

 

you still need the readings Crossy asked for

 

 

When "eyes" return will recheck and look for any color change. 

 

A little backgound on the elec in this house, The house was built 30 years ago and over the years new wiring added and/or changed. Most wiring runs thru the ceiling and many, many connections made by cutting existing cable and connecting to that with just electrical tape. 

 

Two years ago changed to safe-t-cut and also changed some cabling for bigger cables to resolve issues. We have large lizards that run around sometimes in the ceiling. and once a sparky came for repairs and said a rat had eaten thru a cable and caused a problem. But few problems since added safe-t-cut until this month,

[Metropolitian]

Will come back later.. We just got a heavy rain, thunder and wind here.

And now a big hole in the roof and all the rain is pouring down the stairwell.
⛈️

 

 

[livram]

51 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That suggest that there could be a fault as if you look at the videos above you will see that there should be a colour change.

 

get the eyes to keep looking through the hole with a torch while you trip the RCBO and while the power trips it. They should see movement the paint may have failed.

 

you still need the readings Crossy asked for

 

 

Eyes returned. Looked thru hole with torch and when I pushed test button elec tripped and hole showed RED. Then I ran all a/c plus shower heater etc, after 5 minutes 3-gang breaker trip but no change or movement on indicator hole, just stayed gray.

 

 

 

 

 

[VocalNeal]

56 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Stribon.. never heard of. Stiebel Eltron ?

 

https://www.stiebeleltronasia.com/catalog/Water-Heater/6_1

[VocalNeal]

4 minutes ago, livram said:

Then I ran all a/c plus shower heater etc, after 5 minutes 3-gang breaker trip but no change or movement on indicator hole, just stayed gray.

Problem halved already. ????

[sometimewoodworker]

1 minute ago, livram said:

Eyes returned. Looked thru hole with torch and when I pushed test button elec tripped and hole showed RED. Then I ran all a/c plus shower heater etc, after 5 minutes 3-gang breaker trip but no change or movement on indicator hole, just stayed gray.

 

Progress.

 

Your trips are almost certainly overload not line neutral imbalance.

 

now we have probably eliminated the line/neutral (don’t forget to check anyway) you need Crossy’s numbers 

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, livram said:

Eyes returned. Looked thru hole with torch and when I pushed test button elec tripped and hole showed RED. Then I ran all a/c plus shower heater etc, after 5 minutes 3-gang breaker trip but no change or movement on indicator hole, just stayed gray.

 

OK, so it would seem we are tripping on over-current.

 

Next task is to actually measure what current is causing the trip. Because of the tight cables you can do this at the meter.

[livram]

57 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Stribon.. never heard of. Stiebel Eltron ?

 

 

It will look like this :

 

    

Switched off caused by Overload

 

Switched off caused by Leakage

 

 

 

Lets all assume for now that the indicator 'works' and it is not a leakage but focus on the overload.

Possible causes:

* Faulty main breaker

* Current goes over the limit, the voltage drop to the A/C or heater is high.  (Measuring at the wall socket inside isn't best measuring point. At the CU it is.)

* Anyone.. ?

 

It can be a leaking issue, and the indicator is stuck.

I had a RCCB before which had a misaligned indicator, it still worked but no indication but shut off fine at 30mA

 

 

 

Measure the voltage drop of the whole circuit by measuring at the CU when everything is turned on.

 

85636986b17311b8e5275513f08cfd6d.jfif 73.6 kB · 0 downloads

Metro post showing pictures is exact. Red color (Leakage) like 2nd picture when using test button and no color like in picture 1 (overload) when all a/c's etc on.

Stiebel Eltron is correct.

 

[bankruatsteve]

37 minutes ago, livram said:

A little backgound on the elec in this house, The house was built 30 years ago and over the years new wiring added and/or changed. Most wiring runs thru the ceiling and many, many connections made by cutting existing cable and connecting to that with just electrical tape. 

Can you get a visual inspection of the connections (photo?).  Maybe focus on the neutral cable and any tight fit around the structural steel.  Also, if the mains are among the cables in the conduit from the ceiling, you should be able to get your ammeter around one of those.

[sometimewoodworker]

with what you say about the house wiring I maybe a bit concerned that there could be a loose joint or 2 (not a big chance but worth checking sometime soon)

 

if it isn’t on the list check at the meter for the amp draw for each item, then start adding them in. You may find something that seems way too high.

[livram]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

OK, so it would seem we are tripping on over-current.

 

Next task is to actually measure what current is causing the trip. Because of the tight cables you can do this at the meter.

Thanks for help today. My helpers left the house so I am now going to wait until Tuesday when the PEA man will be here and get the readings from the meter, etc.

 

At least now it seems to be an overload causing the problem.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 minute ago, livram said:

At least now it seems to be an overload causing the problem.

Or the RCBO is falling at too low a current.

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, livram said:

At least now it seems to be an overload causing the problem.

 

I'm more thinking it's a faulty breaker.

 

We have a 63A incomer and, try as I might (ok visitors with A/C and water heaters might) I've never managed to get it to open on over-current.

 

Your "B" curve unit will open in 2 minutes at about 80A!!

 

 

 

[VocalNeal]

4 minutes ago, livram said:

At least now it seems to be an overload causing the problem.

Do you a really old fridge? 

[livram]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Or the RCBO is falling at too low a current.

Actually I think this will be it. It is supposed to be Safe-T-Cut 50 AMP and the few measurements I took are not even close to an overload.

[livram]

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

Do you a really old fridge? 

Probably 8 years old 15 CuFt Hitachi.

[lopburi3]

Can't remember but you mention one AC always on 24 hours a day.  Have you been able to trip breaker if that one AC is turned off and everything else on?  If breaker not bad there must be something drawing more power than expected.

[VocalNeal]

6 minutes ago, Crossy said:

I'm more thinking it's a faulty breaker.

On 4/5/2020 at 9:46 AM, VocalNeal said:

Someone will shoot me down I know but...

Once a breaker has tripped , with each subsequent trip it becomes more susceptible to tripping.

 

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, livram said:

Safe-T-Cut 50 AMP

 

Main breaker says "B63" = 63A.