Wuhan lab testing bats for coronavirus had sloppy safety precautions

[silver sea]

“President Donald Trump made the explosive charge that the coronavirus that has caused millions of infections and wreaked havoc on the global economy may have been created in a Chinese lab – and cast doubt on likely scenarios it jumped from animals to humans.”

 

The lab he is referring to is, of course, the Institute of Virology in Wuhan where Shi Zenghli (aka Bat Woman) works.

 

 

“According to Reuters, a range of options are being discussed to punish China, with the State Department, White House National Security Council, Treasury Department and Pentagon, developing options.'There is a discussion as to how hard to hit China and how to calibrate it properly,' a source said.”

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8275837/Donald-Trump-says-seen-evidence-coronavirus-started-Wuhan-virology-laboratory.html

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by silver sea

[silver sea]

“Bombshell 'Five Eyes' Western intelligence dossier claims China lied about human-to-human transmission, 'disappeared' whistle-blowers and refused to help other countries prepare a vaccine for coronavirus”

 

“It describes how Beijing was outwardly downplaying the outbreak on the world stage while secretly scrambling to bury all traces of the disease.

 

‘This involved 'destroying' laboratory samples, bleaching wet market stalls, censoring the growing evidence of 'silent carriers' of the virus and stonewalling sample requests from other countries.”

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8279859/Bombshell-intelligence-lays-bare-China-lied-coronavirus-outbreak.html

Edited May 2, 2020 by silver sea

[AverageBloke]

Im not sure how factual the below article is but it certainly poses some interesting questions if true.                            https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741%3famp=1

[rabas]

2 hours ago, AverageBloke said:

Im not sure how factual the below article is but it certainly poses some interesting questions if true.                            https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741%3famp=1

This is an MSM article twisting the long history of China-US collaborative infectious disease research to make Trump look bad in something he plays no role in.

The truth is this research goes back many years. In 2014 the US placed a moratorium on dangerous SARS research. IN 2014 Bat Woman successfully engineered a deadly virus that could infect humans by combining SARS and bat viruses, then in 2015 published the work with US authors.

At the time many scientists warned of the dangers of such work while others said the work had merit.

The Wuhan lab continued and in 2017 discovered bat viruses in a Yunnan cave that they said posed a threat to mankind. The continued to collect and research these bats and viruses. I have read they kept  thousands.

 

In 2018 a US delegation visited the labs and labs warned of serious security lapses.

 

In mid 2019 the US also warned China of concern over the work in the labs. There is also a CCP military lab on site whose work is ostensibly defensive in nature, as all governments say.

Bat Woman WIKI       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi_Zhengli

 

The article is also factually wrong on the key issue when the gain of function work was done.

 

In 2014, Shi Zhengli collaborated on additional gain-of-function experiments led by Ralph S. Baric of the University of North Carolina, which showed that two critical mutations that the MERS coronavirus possesses allow it to bind to the human ACE2 receptor.

Edited May 2, 2020 by rabas

[silver sea]

 

 

 

 

You may remember two months ago Bat Woman said: 'I promise with my life that the virus has nothing to do with the lab'.
 

This article covers 5 different things:

 

1. “During the past month, Wuhan's Institute of Virology has removed photographs of scientists working in its laboratories and edited out references to visits by US diplomats who subsequently raised the alarm about the laboratory's work on bats. ”

 

2. Inside the caves where Covid-19 began 
 

3. Bat Woman denies that she has fled China over Covid-19 and defected to Europe with a secret dossier about the outbreak. 
 

4. Wuhan biosafety expert admits widespread security and maintenance concerns at China's top-secret labs which carry out research on lethal diseases.

 

5. International pressure was last night building on Beijing following the leak of a bombshell intelligence dossier which accuses China of having lied about the origins of Covid-19 – and cites evidence that the virus was passed to humans via the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

 

Click link below to read the article in full:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8281085/Wuhan-virus-lab-cover-up.html

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by silver sea

[silver sea]

Interesting article on the origin of Chinesebwet markets like the one in Wuhan.

 

“The cages are stacked one on top of another. Animals at the bottom are often soaked with all kinds of liquid, animal excrement, pus, blood, whatever the liquid they are receiving from the animals above.”
 

in 1988, the government made a decision that changed the shape of the wildlife trade in China. The law also encouraged the “ ... domestication and breeding of wildlife.  if you designate the wildlife as natural resources, that means it’s something that can be used for human benefit... Small local farms turned into industrial-sized operations, and bigger populations meant greater chances that a sick animal could spread disease.”
 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1271853/china-illegal-animal-trade-coronavirus-covid19-bats-pangolin-wuhan-seafood-market-spt

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by silver sea

[silver sea]

Further to the post just above, here is an article about Sir David Attenborough’s investigation into the pangolin black market. Those who believe that the virus originated in the wet market and not in Bat Woman’s Institute of Virology, argue that the pangolin caught the virus from the bats and passed it onto humans in Wuhan.
 

“These small, soft animals have been under threat from poachers for decades, as their scales are used in Chinese traditional medicines to treat the likes of anxiety and hysteria in children and women thought to be possessed by devils and ogres. Though illegal to poach and trade, pangolin meat is prized as a delicacy in parts of China, tipped to have nutritional value to aid kidney function and is often found on restaurant menus as the most expensive dish.“

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1271279/china-david-attenborough-pangolin-asia-africa-black-market-bbc-documentary-coronavirus-spt

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by silver sea

[Traubert]

I have a suggestion Mr Silver Sea.

 

Instead of a conspiracy based on what the UK's Daily Naz.....sorry Mail says why not go for the more credible Beano or Dandy?

 

Are they still running the "Column Of Shame" in the DM?

 

[Logosone]

On 4/15/2020 at 8:37 AM, silver sea said:

 

“A study by the Wuhan Institute of Virology, published in February 2020 in the scientific journal Nature, found that the genetic make-up virus samples found in patients in China is 96 per cent identical to a coronavirus they found in bats.

 

However, there were not many bats at the market so scientists say it was likely there was an animal which acted as a middle-man, contracting it from a bat before then transmitting it to a human. It has not yet been confirmed what type of animal this was.

 

Dr Michael Skinner, a virologist at Imperial College London, was not involved with the research but said: 'The discovery definitely places the origin of nCoV in bats in China.

 

'We still do not know whether another species served as an intermediate host to amplify the virus, and possibly even to bring it to the market, nor what species that host might have been.' “
 

 

But the scientists can’t identify the intermediate animal. So may be that’s because there is no middle animal.

 

An alternative theory is therefore it came from the Wuhan research lab

 

 

 

Scientists did not say that an animal was the likely intermediary because there weren't many bats at the market. Geneticists concluded that an animal must have acted as an intermediary because the original Bat virus is not designed to infect human cells, it can't do so because of its design. In order for it to be able to do so it had to mutate in an animal carrier. Some time must have passed for the virus to mutate within an animal carrier to the extent it was able to attack human cells.

 

This could have been a cat, a ferret, a pig, many options. Obviously you can't find that animal carrier, how would you do that? But it would appear certain that an animal must have carried the virus for some time.

 

You have also mentioned the research by Dr Peter Forster from Cambridge. If you read that research you will see that the virus did not originate in Wuhan, the A variant is found in Guangdong however.

 

The problem with the lab hypothesis is precisely that the virus had to mutate, which takes time, in an animal, since the Bat coronavirus can not infect humans.

[DrTuner]

4 minutes ago, Logosone said:

The problem with the lab hypothesis is precisely that the virus had to mutate, which takes time, in an animal, since the Bat coronavirus can not infect humans.

IIRC the research Batwoman was doing was exactly on the mutations allowing coronaviruses to infect humans?

[silver sea]

25 minutes ago, Traubert said:

I have a suggestion Mr Silver Sea.

 

Instead of a conspiracy based on what the UK's Daily Naz.....sorry Mail says why not go for the more credible Beano or Dandy?

 

Are they still running the "Column Of Shame" in the DM?

 

 

The last two articles are Daily Express not Daily Mail. Links to other sources of information are also on this thread.
 

I have a suggestion Mr Traubert.

 

It would be helpful if you could tell us how you believe the virus originated and provide some links to support your opinion, rather than simply sneering at other people’s opinions and efforts to keep those, who are genuinely interested, up to date on what’s happening.

 

If you can’t be bothered to do that, then perhaps you should get back on your ‘naughty step’ for another snooze. 

 

[Logosone]

24 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

IIRC the research Batwoman was doing was exactly on the mutations allowing coronaviruses to infect humans?

Batwoman has said that none of the virus genomes that were in Wuhan matched her team's samples genetically.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

 

She has also said that humans can get a coronavirus direct from a bat, something that geneticists in the west have found not to be the case.

 

I understand she did test if coronaviruses can infect human cells in a petri dish.

 

However, she said that she did so in order to find out if a virus was a danger to humans. Her whole effort in tracing coronaviruses was a response to the SARS pandemic, and intended to indentify coronavirus pathogens before they turn into a pandemic.

 

Apparently there are 5000 coronaviruses in Bats. The potential for further pandemics is huge.

 

Pigs are apparently the number one candidate as intermediaries, though civets have already had the honour.

 

 

[Logosone]

Anyway it looks like it was Batwoman who was the one who confirmed beyond doubt that the SARS virus came from bats.

 

And she apparently also did key research on medicines for SARS Cov2.

 

Rather than an attempt to weaponize the virus it would appear her work was designed to prevent a pandemic. If she unwittingly caused one is another question.

[DrTuner]

18 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Batwoman has said that none of the virus genomes that were in Wuhan matched her team's samples genetically.

If you were living in CCP China, what would you say? 

[Logosone]

41 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

If you were living in CCP China, what would you say? 

Yes, she would say that now, that's the problem. What to believe.

 

Hero or villain?

 

I should clarify I said earlier humans can't get a coronavirus from a bat. That's not correct, they can't get the SARS Cov2 bat precursor direct from a bat, but they can get other coronaviruses direct from a bat.

 

MERS Cov for example.

 

My bad.

[Traubert]

I know as much as you about where the virus originated which is nothing.

 

I choose not to inflict tabloid gossip such as the Daily Mail and the Daily Express on the readership who have some admirable qualities at times.

 

I suspect you are not British or would be aware of 'Dirty Desmond' of Express fame and Lord Rothermere of Mail reknown.

 

Give us something from Private Eye. The first half.

 

 

[silver sea]

2 hours ago, Traubert said:

I know as much as you about where the virus originated which is nothing.

 

I choose not to inflict tabloid gossip such as the Daily Mail and the Daily Express on the readership who have some admirable qualities at times.

 

I suspect you are not British or would be aware of 'Dirty Desmond' of Express fame and Lord Rothermere of Mail reknown.

 

Give us something from Private Eye. The first half.

 

 

 

I cannot give you any links to Private Eye, because I do not have a subscription. Even if I did have one, there’s no point, because other people don’t have a subscription either.

 

Same, same with links to Sunday and Daily Telegraph, and Times and Sunday Times. Same with magazines like Spectatator and New Statesman. I gave a link to Washington Post, and Chelseafan couldn’t read it, so other readers had to search around to give him a link he could read. Same problem with the New York Times. They all operate paywalls, with a limited access to one or two free articles each week.

 

And the additional problem with Private Eye is that it is only published once a fortnight. 

 

That’s the advantage of linking the Mail and Express because everyone can read them without a problem. Readers can then add other links for the rest of us to read.
 

Certain people like to sneer at the Mail in particular. It’s an easy way of getting ‘brownie points’ from other readers of a similar opinion, which is all they seem to care about, without actually contributing anything to the thread. That’s why they know “nothing” about “where the virus originated”, because they don’t follow any of the links that have been offered to them. 

 

Instead, all they want to do is to puff out their chests and to show off: “Look at me folks; I don’t read daily rags like the Mail and Express. I read only Private Eye, because I am too clever to read anything else.

 

Richard Desmond sold the Express in February 2018. Lord Rothermere (I assume you are referring the first one, because of his leanings towards Hitler in the 1930s), died in 1940. 

 

The Mail has moved a long way since then. It was very pro Brexit under the previous editor Paul Dacre. The Mail seemed to regard the EU as an opportunity for the Germans to create the Fourth Reich and to take control of the UK. But what does that matter to you when your mind seems to be stuck with the memory of the 1st Lord Rothermere, who died 80 years ago.

 

I don’t know why you keep opening this thread if you are so unhappy with its contents. There are so many other interesting threads on this Covid-19 sub forum for you to read and to participate in.

 

Anyway, just for you Mr Traubert, here is medical research reproduced by The Lancet in January 2020. It shows that of the 41 cases in the first large cluster, only 27 (66%) had actual connections to the seafood market in Wuhan. So what about the other 14 (33%)? How did they get infected? It was too soon for The Lancet to have an opinion in January, but it gives you something to read, instead of the Mail.

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext

[silver sea]

Below is a link to a recent article in the Daily Telegraph about Wuhan’s Institute of Virology, and of course, Shi Zhinghli, aka Bat Woman.

 

The problem for 99.9% of you is that the Daily Telegraph operates a paywall. I am not a subscriber; instead, I get an email once a week will links to 3 or 4 articles which I can read for free; the link below was one of those offered to me yesterday. They are hoping that eventually I will relent and pay a monthly fee to read the whole newspaper.

 

If you click on the link, they will probably offer you the chance to get limited free access each week, and having joined you can then read the article below. Afterwards you can then cancel if you don’t want to receive their weekly email.

 

However, it illustrates the point I was making in the last post. Unlike sites with paywall barriers, the Mail and Express are free to look at, although I appreciate that one or two of you will need to sit in a dark corner somewhere so that your friends cannot see that you are looking at **shock**horror*** the Daily Mail. They might think that you are sneaking a look at the Mail’s Sidebar of Shame: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sidebar of Shame

 

Anyway, here is a quote of three paragraphs from the Daily Telegraph article linked below:

 

“And it is not clear that Covid 19 was always handled only in Level-4 labs. 

"Of course it is possible that is was human error," said a French scientist that visited the Wuhan lab.

 

"But you must remember that the most virulent coronavirus are considered level BSL3 and other coronavirus are level BSL2."

 

‘That would raise the possibility of a leak from another lab - possibly Wuhan's Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, a completely separate institution that is based 300 metres from the Wuhan market initially identified as the source of the virus.”
 

 

In my previous post, which replied to Mr Traubert above, I gave a link to a medical report published in The Lancet in January. It showed that of the 41 people infected with the virus, only 27 (66%) had been to the Wuhan Wet Market. So how did the other 14 (33%) get infected? We don’t know, but maybe their infection came from Wuhan’s Centre For Diseases, which Is BSL-2 (Biosafety level 2).

 

Shi Zenghli, Bat Woman, seems only to have investigated and cleared Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), where she worked, of negligent activity; she made no comment about Wuhan’s Centre for Diseses, which is only 300 meters from the wet market.
 

In the unlikely event that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) allows an international, independent investigation, it would need to examine all three sites: the wet market; Wuhan’s Institute of Virology; and the Centre for Diseases.

 

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/wuhan-virus-inside-story-laboratory-blamed-donald-trump/?WT.mc_id=e_DM1243449&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_Edi_New_Reg&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_Edi_New_Reg20200504&utm_campaign=DM1243449

 

 

[silver sea]

 

“A report was drawn up by the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations (CICIR), a think tank affiliated with the Ministry of State Security, China's top intelligence body ... Beijing faces a wave of anti-China sentiment led by the United States in the aftermath of the pandemic and needs to be prepared in a worst-case scenario for armed confrontation between the two global powers ...”

 

”Without directly addressing the assessment made in the Chinese report, Morgan Ortagus (US State Department): 'Beijing's efforts to silence scientists, journalists, and citizens and spread disinformation exacerbated the dangers of this health crisis.'”

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8284569/Internal-Chinese-report-warns-Beijing-faces-Tiananmen-like-global-backlash-virus-sources.html

[silver sea]

 

 

 

Quotes of two paragraphs from the article to give you an idea of its content.
 

“There is no current evidence to suggest that coronavirus leaked from a Chinese research laboratory, intelligence sources have told the Guardian, contradicting recent White House claims that there is growing proof this is how the pandemic began.

 

 

‘Stories have suggested that workers in the lab may not have always used full protective equipment, and that in one instance a bat urinated on a researcher who did not subsequently become ill.

But there is nothing to indicate a leak from the lab could have caused the pandemic, sources say.”

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/five-eyes-network-contradicts-theory-covid-19-leaked-from-lab?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZGF5cy0yMDA1MDU%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by silver sea

[TSF]

On 4/15/2020 at 5:31 PM, silver sea said:

 

Imagine being married to her, she comes home from the Wuhan lab in the evening you gonna give her a big hug and a sloppy kiss, later on get into bed together and cuddle up close? 

Edited May 5, 2020 by TSF

[RJRS1301]

Secretary of State has admitted (sort of) that he has no evidence about his and Trumps assertions regarding the origin of the virus.

His interview is a masterclass in obfuscation.

 

 

[impulse]

For a different take on the whole deal, look up Judy Mikovits and listen to some of her interviews on YouTube (while they stay up).  And Plandemic.

 

I'm not passing judgment on anything she's saying.  But she certainly is thought provoking...

 

 

[RJRS1301]

16 minutes ago, impulse said:

For a different take on the whole deal, look up Judy Mikovits and listen to some of her interviews on YouTube (while they stay up).  And Plandemic.

 

I'm not passing judgment on anything she's saying.  But she certainly is thought provoking...

 

 

Credible source?

[rabas]

47 minutes ago, impulse said:

For a different take on the whole deal, look up Judy Mikovits and listen to some of her interviews on YouTube (while they stay up).  And Plandemic.

 

I'm not passing judgment on anything she's saying.  But she certainly is thought provoking...

The other side of her story. You decide.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/scientist-vaccine-jailed/

 

[FinChin67]

After spent some time in China (since 91) I have two opinions for the origins:

 

- lab test animals sold to market to make extra cash on the side (yes, this happens in China)

- mistake in the lab when handling the virus (most likely and try to cover the mistake in fear or losing job / face or both)

 

Important contribution and not so far fetched scenario from @impulse

"Some lab minion forgot to pack a lunch one day and got hungry."

 

I was during SARS in China and that had a clear source. China however learned nothing but continues to cover up their (censored words) and just worry about "losing face". Pathetic.

 

Hopefully someone has the balls to stand up to China. The leftist feminist governments in EU have no chance.

Edited May 7, 2020 by FinChin67

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, rabas said:

The other side of her story. You decide.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/scientist-vaccine-jailed/

 

Once again, I'm not passing judgment on the validity of her claims.  But if it is a massive conspiracy like she claims, trumped up charges of equipment theft would be eezy peezy for the conspirators. 

 

[impulse]

38 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Credible source?

 

I have it on good authority, 100% assured that there is a woman by that name. 

 

You have to decide for yourself whether there's any validity to her claims.  Still worth a listen even if you're not in the tin foil hat brigade...  And just as interesting was following some of the links that I ran across when I started down that rabbit hole.

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, FinChin67 said:

After spent some time in China (since 91) I have two opinions for the origins:

 

- lab test animals sold to market to make extra cash on the side (yes, this happens in China)

- mistake in the lab when handling the virus (most likely and try to cover the mistake in fear or losing job / face or both)

 

You forgot option 3.  Some lab minion forgot to pack a lunch one day and got hungry.

 

[silver sea]

'Coronavirus did NOT come from animals in Wuhan market': Landmark study suggests it was taken into the area by someone already infected - as Beijing thwarts efforts to establish source of Covid-19.’

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8326823/Landmark-study-Virus-didnt-come-animals-Wuhan-market.html

 

 

 

And this is a link to an abstract of the scientific report, which is referred to in the article, which also has readers’ comments at the end:

 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.073262v1

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by silver sea