Trump says he doesn't want to talk to Xi right now, could even cut China ties

[rabas]

19 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

guess we'll have to wait until the civil war is over.  taiwan is the government that issued the bonds, they still claim sovereignty over mainland china.

 

will be interesting to see how it works out.  my parents still have a stack of confederate bonds they'd like to cash in.

That's an internal debt, unless of course you are Chinese.

[kingdong]

13 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Xi is at least a consistent guy. 

So was polpot

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Yeah, but I would demand top quality. With Chinese products the selling point has been cheap <deleted> in bulk that breaks easily. I'd expect the more expensive products to last longer. And they used to, fridges that were made locally in the 80's in Finland seem to still be running. Chinese compressors may last 5-6 years on a good day. I won't even mention the Nokia 3310 - of course I did.

Unfortunately that's partially the fault of the astute managers in the West - plenty of items are now designed with 'engineered failure' to just outlast the warranty.

 

I wouldn't mind paying a little more for better quality, but certainly not 5-10x more, not even 20% more. People also have short memories, a year from now everyone will still be demanding the cheapest prices, so parts for TV's, Cars, Air-conditioners etc etc will still be made in Chinese factories because the bottom line for any business is not customer satisfaction but profit.

 

 

 

[scorecard]

7 hours ago, Ireland32 said:

Made in China Boycott Immediately, Not one item , Make them get in their knees 

1. And in return China stops buying stuff from the US, especially farm products.

 

2. Plus China is not dependent on the US buying Chinese products, China has massive sales of many products to every corner of the world. 

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Unfortunately that's partially the fault of the astute managers in the West - plenty of items are now designed with 'engineered failure' to just outlast the warranty.

 

I wouldn't mind paying a little more for better quality, but certainly not 5-10x more, not even 20% more. People also have short memories, a year from now everyone will still be demanding the cheapest prices, so parts for TV's, Cars, Air-conditioners etc etc will still be made in Chinese factories because the bottom line for any business is not customer satisfaction but profit.

I truly hope the deep recession that is coming makes people think more about what is actually worth something. People, society and yes where the products are made, their usefulness and their quality. It would mean a reset of sorts and China would be the great loser in that, the end of low end consumerism.

 

Unfortunately the realist in me agrees with your vision. We're screwed.

[candide]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

I truly hope the deep recession that is coming makes people think more about what is actually worth something. People, society and yes where the products are made, their usefulness and their quality. It would mean a reset of sorts and China would be the great loser in that, the end of low end consumerism.

 

Unfortunately the realist in me agrees with your vision. We're screwed.

We're screwed anyway, and not particularly because of China. Anyone who bought a shower hose, whatever the price paid, knows it.

 

BTW, the Chinese are able to make quality products when they want. Just have a look at network equipment and handsets, computers, electric cars, aircon, etc... The government just needs to put it in its 5 years plan. I am kind of joking but unfortunately not that much. Plenty of HQ electronic equipment and various luxury brand items are actually made in China. They are following a path which is similar to the one Japan and South Korea followed before them.

 

However, the transition will not be easy to manage for China.

[Heppinger]

5 hours ago, kingdong said:

So was polpot

Both Xi and Polpot shared a common friend in Henry Kissinger.

[Heppinger]

3 hours ago, candide said:

For years, Trumpers have been complaining that the MSM have never been critical of Obama. Thank you for demonstrating the opposite. ????

Of course the MSM was critical of Obama, I'd say about 50% of the MSM was critical while the other 50% were supportive.  Do you think when Hulk Hogan and Rowdy Rod Piper left the ring and went back stage they continued their feuding? 

[Heppinger]

1 hour ago, candide said:

We're screwed anyway, and not particularly because of China. Anyone who bought a shower hose, whatever the price paid, knows it.

 

BTW, the Chinese are able to make quality products when they want. Just have a look at network equipment and handsets, computers, electric cars, aircon, etc... The government just needs to put it in its 5 years plan. I am kind of joking but unfortunately not that much. Plenty of HQ electronic equipment and various luxury brand items are actually made in China. They are following a path which is similar to the one Japan and South Korea followed before them.

 

However, the transition will not be easy to manage for China.

Absent extensive outside assistance China is a basket case.  Not all that long ago. After expelling, imprisoning or murdering all the educated, intellectual, traditional and land owning Chinese Peoples, they were basically sh*tting in the streets.  You are correct in stating that China is following a path. A path planned out and handed to them. As China would not be able to follow instructions for a Lego set, absent this outside assistance. 

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

But the circumstances here are extraordinary, clearly a US default on its China debt to seek reparations would have nothing to do with its ability and willingness to repay any other debtor. I mean, if I borrow $10,000 from you but can’t repay it because I’ve lost my job, my credit rating would suffer, but if I refused to repay the money because I wanted compensation after you’d just burned my house down, it would be a very different matter.

Two components come together to determine credit worthiness.

Ability to repay is one component ,  willingness is another.  

If you can't pay because you lost your job, we all might think it is not your fault, that you fell on hard times and we all might want to restructure, giving you the opportunity to get back on your feet.  

But if you have the ability to pay, but you chose not to pay some of us, and you start to make excuses,

then it might not be unreasonable ,

next time you come around to borrow money, if we think that this time it might be our turn not to get repaid, and if we are to take a risk and lend you again  we might demand a higher return. 

Higher risk, higher return, would you not demand the same?

 

 
 

 

[kingdong]

47 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

Both Xi and Polpot shared a common friend in Henry Kissinger.

There you go

[simple1]

34 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

Absent extensive outside assistance China is a basket case.  Not all that long ago. After expelling, imprisoning or murdering all the educated, intellectual, traditional and land owning Chinese Peoples, they were basically sh*tting in the streets.  You are correct in stating that China is following a path. A path planned out and handed to them. As China would not be able to follow instructions for a Lego set, absent this outside assistance. 

Never underestimate your adversary. e.g. China's R&D spend is now more than S.Korea, Germany and japan combined. 

[Heppinger]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Never underestimate your adversary. e.g. China's R&D spend is now more than S.Korea, Germany and japan combined. 

There is no adversary.  The world order was established with the result of ww2.  China becoming the world's manufacturing super power is an agenda, an agenda not planned and financed by themselves, but with the assistance, finances and permission of the worlds banker's and ruling families of western nations.

[simple1]

33 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

There is no adversary.  The world order was established with the result of ww2.  China becoming the world's manufacturing super power is an agenda, an agenda not planned and financed by themselves, but with the assistance, finances and permission of the worlds banker's and ruling families of western nations.

You're welcome to your POV, I suggest many will disagree the Chinese government is not currently a political / trade adversary to the West. With trump in power ain't a hell of a lot of co-competition going on is there.

[Heppinger]

17 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 With trump in power ain't a hell of a lot of co-competition going on is there.

I would suggest that this is the intention.  Would be surprised if Trump has the ability to tie his shoe laces let alone handle fiscal policies and trade deficit's.  I believe he was ordered to act as President to pay off his debt he holds with bankers and to keep the American population divided and looking over here, while over there, America's tech industry is transferred to China.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Heppinger

[OneMoreFarang]

10 hours ago, DrTuner said:

I'd gladly pay a 5-10x premium for high quality US products if they were available and would come with a guarantee that not a single molecule came from China. I'd still grumble about the extortionate shipping costs though.

 

I'll give an example: In 2003 I bought a top-of-the-line Leatherman multitool. It cost quite a bit, but has been in nearly daily use evfer since and is just as good today as it was back then. That's what I mean with high quality.

What did your tool cost? 100USD or maybe 200USD? I also like quality and pay for quality.

But China has lots of quality products. I bought a mobile phone from China maybe 2 years ago now. It's great, it cost about 6000THB. Now look how much American phones, made mostly in China, cost now. And how much would they cost if they would be made entirely in the USA. Would you pay 3000USD for a phone if you could buy something similar for a fraction? Because both phones will be out of date in a few years and then you pay again that price. And that is just one of many examples.

[hotandsticky]

30 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

I would suggest that this is the intention.  Would be surprised if Trump has the ability to tie his shoe laces let alone handle fiscal policies and trade deficit's.  I believe he was ordered to act as President to pay off his debt he holds with bankers and to keep the American population divided and looking over here, while over there, America's tech industry is transferred to China.

 

 

I think it is the range and variety of vivid imagination that I find most entertaining on Thai Visa.

[Heppinger]

2 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I think it is the range and variety of vivid imagination that I find most entertaining on Thai Visa.

Can't find any sports to watch? I know you have recorded your favorite matches featuring your most treasured idols.  You should go and reminisce.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[Eric Loh]

Remarkable that there are some here that think that Trump’s scorched-earth China policy is good for USA. The world is better off participating in global trade and harness unlimited productive capacities. Anyway, who knows what Trump will say tomorrow. He is just full of bluff than substance. 

[Opl]

4 hours ago, Heppinger said:

There is no adversary.  The world order was established with the result of ww2.  China becoming the world's manufacturing super power is an agenda, an agenda not planned and financed by themselves, but with the assistance, finances and permission of the worlds banker's and ruling families of western nations.

China's agenda - of course, China has a plan ...does have a plan

To be added, IMHO : one-child policy program implemented nationwide in 1980  

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/china-70-years-economic-history.html

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Opl

[Heppinger]

21 minutes ago, Opl said:

China's agenda - of course, China has a plan ...

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/china-70-years-economic-history.html

 

Oh look it even has pictures.  Of course China has a plan, as i stated the plan is to become the world's manufacturing super power and fulfilling their role in the "Belt and Road" initiative. you can see when this began on your chart, though the chart's creator seems to have missed the event concerning 20 million murdered Chinese citizens, never mind, not important.  The economic growth started after Nixon and Kissinger finished laying out the rules, guidelines and finally financing for this plan. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Heppinger

[Opl]

5 hours ago, Heppinger said:

Absent extensive outside assistance China is a basket case.  Not all that long ago. After expelling, imprisoning or murdering all the educated, intellectual, traditional and land owning Chinese Peoples, they were basically sh*tting in the streets.  You are correct in stating that China is following a path. A path planned out and handed to them. As China would not be able to follow instructions for a Lego set, absent this outside assistance. 

Chinese prefered game is "Go", OBOR if you prefer... 

[Heppinger]

2 minutes ago, Opl said:

Chinese prefered game is "Go", OBOR if you prefer... 

I love that game.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 5/15/2020 at 10:01 AM, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Trump has Huawei and ZTE phones banned, as these companies are partially owned by the Chinese govt, and thus he claims their stuff to all be spying on us.

 

Yet he seems to forget they also make iPhones, and 99% of the junk in Walmart, which could easily be doing the same.

 

There were some new developments on this in the past couple days, particularly involving Huawei and Apple and the Chinese:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-huawei-tech-china/china-ready-to-put-apple-other-u-s-companies-in-unreliable-entity-list-global-times-idUSKBN22R1X2
 

Quote

 

(Reuters) - China is ready to put U.S. companies in an “unreliable entity list,” as part of countermeasures against Washington’s move to block shipments of semiconductors to Huawei Technologies, the Global Times reported on Friday.

 

The measures include launching investigations and imposing restrictions on U.S. companies such as Apple Inc, Cisco Systems Inc, Qualcomm Inc as well as suspending purchase of Boeing Co airplanes, the report said here citing a source.

The Global Times is published by the People’s Daily, the official newspaper of China’s ruling Communist Party. 
 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Phoenix Rising]

Some perspective on Trump's hissy fit:

 

'Trump’s China Bark Is Worse Than His Bite'

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

To me, it's perfectly sensible and logical that any right (meaning correct)-thinking country ought to make its economic security and supply chain investments in other countries that are "friends" as opposed to "adversaries" like China.

 

There was a time when perhaps the world hoped that China economic freedoms would expand into political and social freedoms. But I think those dreams and aspirations pretty much died in Tiananmen Square.

 

It's just unfortunate it had to take a worldwide coronavirus pandemic and all these years later for the U.S. to wake up to the reality of China's adversarial role in the world and in terms of economic and military power. Until the CV came along, Trump wanted new trade deals with China, not decoupling.

 

[Heppinger]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

China's adversarial role in the world and in terms of economic and military power. Until the CV came along, Trump wanted new trade deals with China, not decoupling.

 

China has little military power.

[nauseus]

On 5/15/2020 at 7:58 AM, scorecard said:

What makes you say that?

Sour grapes?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

China has little military power.

Not so sure about your notion on that front.

 

Quote

The PLA is the world's largest military force and constitutes the second largest defence budget in the world. The PLA is one of the fastest modernising militaries in the world and has been termed as a potential military superpower, with significant regional power and rising global power projection capabilities.^{[7][8][1][9][10][11][12]} As per Credit Suisse in 2015, the PLA is the world's third-most powerful military.^[13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK