Pattaya: "I'm not sick and it's my right not to wear a mask" - Thai man makes a video stand at market

[ThaiFelix]

18 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Yes, of course you can.

 

Scientists in Iceland are on a project of testing their entire population. So they're not just testing those who are already sick, those who have travelled, ie those who are at risk, they have also tested Joe Public.

 

They found that of the non-targeted, ie not sick, not travelled, ie the general public, a grand total of 0.8 % actually tested positive for the virus.

 

Of those tested in the general population 0.8% in the open-invitation screening and 0.6% in the random-population screening tested positive for the virus. 

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100

 

This implies that 99.2% of the population at large do not have the virus. So 99% of people do not have the virus, are not asymptomatic and are not symptomatic. There is no risk to catch the virus from 99% of the people.

 

Thus, when you wear a mask you do so on the off chance that you meet one of the 0.8% of the population who have the virus and you assume they are still contagious (remember people can be positive but not contagious) and you have the bad luck to walk into a cloud of their droplets. What do you think are the chances of that happening?

 

Yes, your instincts tell you you can't trust anybody, but you see that is the problem, it's your instincts that are wrong. Yes, the more you isolate yourself the better, is what your instincts tell you, but in actual fact if you isolate yourself from the healthy you are achieving exactly ZERO. And remember, 99% of people do not have the virus. So your fear is completely overblown and irrational.

 

If the mask is a symbol of anything, it is a symbol of fear and of gigantic stupidity. And also a symbol of being poorly informed.

 

Yes, I know the Farang are getting the blame for this and not the Chinese. So you decide to pander to the stupidity? What do I care what stupid people talk about behind my back? I could not care less what they talk about. How is getting life for expats more difficult? I could not possibly imagine an easier life than this one, an expat in Thailand.

 

See, I have no problem with you wearing your mask. If you want to wear a mask, go ahead. Your call. The problem comes when people like you, who are very, very poorly informed, and trust nobody, start to make rules for major supermarkets, and force the 99% of people who are healthy to wear a mask. In complete disregard of the utility of such a demand. So your ill-informed and false, paranoid views, actually have an effect on my liberty and my life. That's the problem.

 

You say it's the ignorant who won't follow rules. The exact opposite is the case, you're the ignorant one, you are unaware that 99% of people don't have the virus, and that your wearing of a mask is completely useless, as is isolating yourself from healthy people. Was Rosa Parks ignorant when she didn't follow rules, or were the racists ignorant who followed the rules. Following rules, I'm afraid is not a sign of intelligence, often it is the exact opposite.

 

I can totally understand your friends being angry with you after you socially shunned them for no acceptable reason. I would equally tell you to never call me again if you treated me in this way. What did you expect, you tell your friends they can not be in your company because you're afraid they might give you a virus and you think they won't get annoyed with you? Of course they would. Bear in mind they are most likely one of the 99% of healthy people. Their attitude is very understandable. It is your attitude that is unacceptable.

 

Oh you are talking about Iceland only lol.  Any stats out of Bakino Faso that might also be helpful lol. 

 

I am not even going to respond to the rest of your comments.  Do some research, your info is out of date and no I will not provide a source on the benefits of wearing a mask....there are plenty above.  End of conversation.  But I must say I enjoyed the laugh.

[Tony125]

3 hours ago, robbioff said:

Please provide link to this “strong scientific evidence”.

Not wearing masks to protect against coronavirus is a ‘big mistake,’ top Chinese scientist says

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/not-wearing-masks-protect-against-coronavirus-big-mistake-top-chinese-scientist-says

 

 

Dr. Birx (USA) said there's 'clear scientific evidence' masks help.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dr-birx-said-theres-clear-214422543.html

 

 

Masks help stop the spread of coronavirus – the science is simple 

 

https://theconversation.com/masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-the-science-is-simple-and-im-one-of-100-experts-urging-governors-to-require-public-mask-wearing-138507

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why do you keep repeating this when its not true? They are not testing the whole population.

 

This study is now complete, they invited a set number of people for target testing and a set number of people from the public, finished. In total 6% of the population

 

RESULTS
As of April 4, a total of 1221 of 9199 persons (13.3%) who were recruited for targeted testing had positive results for infection with SARS-CoV-2. Of those tested in the general population, 87 (0.8%) in the open-invitation screening and 13 (0.6%) in the random-population screening tested positive for the virus. In total, 6% of the population was screened.

 

 

Really? 

 

That quote you provided, without source, was written on 14 April.

 

Perhaps you would like to explain to everyone why this article, written on 4th May, says that Iceland has not tested 6% of the population, but on 4th May they already tested 13% of the population?

 

"Iceland Has Tested 13% of Its Entire Population for Coronavirus.

 

Over six weeks, Iceland managed to test almost 50,000 people, more than 13 percent of the population, the biggest chunk of any country in the world."

 

https://time.com/5831580/iceland-coronavirus-tests/

 

"So what if anyone could be tested?

 

That’s what scientists in Iceland are now trying to make happen"

 

Now, anyone in Iceland who wants to be tested for coronavirus can be. They do not need to have recently traveled abroad or have come into contact with anyone diagnosed with the virus. They don’t even need to show any symptoms."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/02/free-coronavirus-test-anyone-this-country-its-possible/

 

"Iceland has tested more of its population for coronavirus than anywhere else.

John P.A. Ioannidis, a professor biomedical data science and epidemiology at Stanford University, said that the "best data" on coronavirus is currently coming from Iceland."

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/10/coronavirus-covid-19-small-nations-iceland-big-data/2959797001/

 

"Iceland is allowing everyone in the country to be tested for the coronavirus."

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/iceland-coronavirus-pandemic-approach-could-help-other-countries-2020-4

Edited May 26, 2020 by Logosone

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[Tony125]

2 hours ago, GAZZPA said:

where is that? The cheap surgical, disposable masks being used are pretty useless in preventing the spread of a virus. I have seen that scientific evidence. If you really want to protect yourself and others you would need to wear a mask that was designed to block a virus. It would need to be fully sealed around your mouth, nose and eyes with appropriate filtration. The porous disposable ones do little according to what I have read.. However, I am very open minded on this, if you can send something to prove otherwise I will read it. 

Not wearing masks to protect against coronavirus is a ‘big mistake,’ top Chinese scientist says

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/not-wearing-masks-protect-against-coronavirus-big-mistake-top-chinese-scientist-says

 

 

Dr. Birx (USA) said there's 'clear scientific evidence' masks help.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dr-birx-said-theres-clear-214422543.html

 

 

Masks help stop the spread of coronavirus – the science is simple 

 

https://theconversation.com/masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-the-science-is-simple-and-im-one-of-100-experts-urging-governors-to-require-public-mask-wearing-138507

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, ThaiFelix said:

Oh you are talking about Iceland only lol.  Any stats out of Bakino Faso that might also be helpful lol. 

 

I am not even going to respond to the rest of your comments.  Do some research, your info is out of date and no I will not provide a source on the benefits of wearing a mask....there are plenty above.  End of conversation.  But I must say I enjoyed the laugh.

 

John P.A. Ioannidis, a professor biomedical data science and epidemiology at Stanford University, said that the "best data" on coronavirus is currently coming from Iceland.  But that may be partly because Iceland is the only country that has so much data...

 

Iceland has achieved something no other country has: tested 10% of its population for coronavirus, a figure far higher than anywhere else in the world.

 

Still, for now, Iceland may be one of best live coronavirus laboratories we have, according to Kari Stefansson, an Icelandic neurologist and chief executive officer of Reykjavik-based biopharmaceutical company deCODE genetics, which has partnered with Iceland's government to carry out its massing testing efforts. 

 

According to Worldometer, an online statistics website run by an international team of developers and researchers that collates public health information published directly by each state, the U.S. has conducted about 2.5 million tests as of April 11. That equates to about 7,600 tests per one million people. Using that same scale that accounts for Iceland's population, Iceland has undertaken 100,000 tests per million people. 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/10/coronavirus-covid-19-small-nations-iceland-big-data/2959797001/

 

No, the info is not out of date. You're out of date. Your whole mask-wearing religion will soon be out of date.

 

Iceland has continued to test its population. It has the most data of any nation on earth on covid19.

 

And if they found that only 0.8% of the population have the virus, guess what that means?

 

Your mask wearing is rather pointless.

[GAZZPA]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Here's a good starter, easy read but also contains links to scientific studies 

 

The Real Reason to Wear a Mask https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/dont-wear-mask-yourself/610336/

 

Here's another, a full study on cloth masks

 

Cloth Masks May Prevent Transmission of COVID-19: An Evidence-Based, Risk-Based Approach https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-2567

Thank you. I will have a good read

 

[GAZZPA]

Lots of very strong opinions on this topic. Its a tricky one because of 2 main things,,,

 

1, The conflicting scientific views on the benefits of wearing a mask (even the pro mask wearing are clear it must be worn and disposed of correctly, how many do that?)

 

2. The view that if over 99% of the population don't have it why should you be forced to wear a mask because it is pointless and an infringement of your rights to chose. 

 

For me it probably seems logical to wear one for a short period. In hong Kong people who were sick would fairly routinely come to work with masks on way before covid, I worked there for many years so I absolutely know it to be true. As long as this is not a permanent fixture now of going about your daily business and doing a bit of shopping I am ok to do my bit if it may (possibly) assist with stamping out the spread of the virus. It seems to make sense for now so I think people should drop the freedom of choice nonsense and just bite the bullet for a while (in these extraordinary times) so we can all get back to normal again asap and kick start our economies. stay safe all...

[CGW]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

No, the info is not out of date. You're out of date. Your whole mask-wearing religion will soon be out of date.

[OZinPattaya]

The Thai dude who isn't sick has to make a living and feed his family, whereas the denizens of TVF have the luxury of haunting internet forums and expatiating on what Thai people should do or not do. It must be nice!

[Tony125]

U.S.

Furious Shoppers Boot Out Woman Buying Groceries Without A Face Mask

 

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/staten-island-mask-confrontation-video-014245192.html

 

Could happen here, guards in USA have been shot and 1 had arm broken throwing out non wearing mask persons.

[ThLT]

Regarding Iceland stats (incorrectly applied to everyone/other countries):

 

Iceland is an island,

isolated in the middle of the Atlantic.

 

Another (more representative) stat: The US has almost 100,000 deaths.

EDIT: Now 100,400 deaths.

Edited May 26, 2020 by ThLT

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, Logosone said:

Really? 

 

That quote you provided, without source, was written on 14 April.

 

Perhaps you would like to explain to everyone why this article, written on 4th May, says that Iceland has not tested 6% of the population, but on 4th May they already tested 13% of the population?

 

 

Oh what a web we weave when first we practice to deceive

 

 

The quote provided was without source, correct because the source is from the actual study paper you linked to, perhaps I had assumed you'd have read it or something? My apologies but here is the quote again with link.

 

RESULTS
As of April 4, a total of 1221 of 9199 persons (13.3%) who were recruited for targeted testing had positive results for infection with SARS-CoV-2. Of those tested in the general population, 87 (0.8%) in the open-invitation screening and 13 (0.6%) in the random-population screening tested positive for the virus. In total, 6% of the population was screened.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100

 

Correct it was written on the 14th April when the study was completed and published:

 

April 14, 2020
DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa2006100

 

This was an independent study. Before the study started Iceland health authorities were carrying out their own tests as all health authorities do in every country, they carried on doing this throughout and after the study paper. Once the study was completed guess what. 

 

Iceland health authorities carried on with their testing program as they have throughout and will continue to do so, hence increased numbers since then that will continue to increase. 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Bkk Brian

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, EricTh said:

They only have those cloth masks which are useless anyway.

Why do you believe that? I feel confident that they will impede droplets from a cough or sneeze.

[ThailandRyan]

As said before this is an uncharted area that we are now in with regards to Covid-19. Never has a complete cycle been viewed and nor have stats been completed on populations after a cycle has run its course.  To link a study that is still under way anywhere and use it to gauge the rest of the world, including Thailand is Folly.  Those that wish to believe and constantly quote a study which is incomplete and used as there bias, notice I did not say basis, are those that do not look at the big picture and try to push an agenda only they believe in.  To become unhinged and bristle at the thought they could be wrong incites them to become further entrenched in their thinking process and beliefs and they become close minded individuals or resemble conspiracy theorists.

 

As far as wearing a mask, it may be your choice, but when laws or edicts are put in place, you need to put those rights aside and follow the rules, not just to protect yourself, but to protect all others that contact is made with.  Just like anything there will always be detractors and despots, but in the end all you create is frustration for yourself and push yourself into possibly needing medical attention, either from disease or from mental disorders and stress you create for yourself.

 

Life is what it is, you can only change the sphere of influence you have directly around you, but to try and change what you have no control of is just plain ridiculous in nature.  If you do not like what the cards you have been dealt by life are then anyone is free to change there venue.  

Edited May 27, 2020 by ThailandRyan

[Travis179]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Sure thing, Canuck.

Never mind that there is very strong scientific evidence by now that massive mask wearing is very effective in reducing the spread of the deadly virus. 

Completely false. Another pompous, armchair COVID expert. Please post your sources. And then I'll respond with an equal number of sources (recent) completely contradicting them.

[metisdead]

A post containing inflammatory comments directed to another member has been removed:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[Logosone]

7 hours ago, GAZZPA said:

Lots of very strong opinions on this topic. Its a tricky one because of 2 main things,,,

 

1, The conflicting scientific views on the benefits of wearing a mask (even the pro mask wearing are clear it must be worn and disposed of correctly, how many do that?)

 

2. The view that if over 99% of the population don't have it why should you be forced to wear a mask because it is pointless and an infringement of your rights to chose. 

 

For me it probably seems logical to wear one for a short period. In hong Kong people who were sick would fairly routinely come to work with masks on way before covid, I worked there for many years so I absolutely know it to be true. As long as this is not a permanent fixture now of going about your daily business and doing a bit of shopping I am ok to do my bit if it may (possibly) assist with stamping out the spread of the virus. It seems to make sense for now so I think people should drop the freedom of choice nonsense and just bite the bullet for a while (in these extraordinary times) so we can all get back to normal again asap and kick start our economies. stay safe all...

Firstly, we are ALL getting back to normal soon regardless. Lockdown is on the way out globally already. And masks will follow suit and will be on the way out shortly thereafter.

 

It's a fallacy to argue that masks help you get back to normal. They don't. They do the exact opposite. They perpetuate the notion of crisis, which is now unnecessary. They never had an impact on the pandemic anyway, as studies showed.

 

It was never plausible that lockdowns and wearing masks is a long term sustainable model. People are already starting to ignore lockdowns, and soon mask wearing will be ignored by most sensible people. Like this very sensible Thai man in the article.

 

Masks do not 'stamp' out the virus, never have and never will. You think people should give up their freedom and liberty because something 'seems to make sense' to you?

 

I disagree.

 

If 99% of people do not have the virus, wearing a mask makes no sense at all.

 

 

[transam]

18 minutes ago, Travis179 said:

Completely false. Another pompous, armchair COVID expert. Please post your sources. And then I'll respond with an equal number of sources (recent) completely contradicting them.

I think you are wrong, so go for it, show us wearing a mask is a no-no.....????

[Bkk Brian]

26 minutes ago, Travis179 said:

Completely false. Another pompous, armchair COVID expert. Please post your sources. And then I'll respond with an equal number of sources (recent) completely contradicting them.

I'm up for that, published scientific studies not media articles. Go ahead, post a few, I've got one or two to respond with, or maybe half a dozen actually

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Firstly, we are ALL getting back to normal soon regardless. Lockdown is on the way out globally already. And masks will follow suit and will be on the way out shortly thereafter.

 

It's a fallacy to argue that masks help you get back to normal. They don't. They do the exact opposite. They perpetuate the notion of crisis, which is now unnecessary. They never had an impact on the pandemic anyway, as studies showed.

 

It was never plausible that lockdowns and wearing masks is a long term sustainable model. People are already starting to ignore lockdowns, and soon mask wearing will be ignored by most sensible people. Like this very sensible Thai man in the article.

 

Masks do not 'stamp' out the virus, never have and never will. You think people should give up their freedom and liberty because something 'seems to make sense' to you?

 

I disagree.

 

If 99% of people do not have the virus, wearing a mask makes no sense at all.

 

 

What is a fallacy is to believe that wearing masks is unsustainable.  For years, in Hong Kong, and many other Asian countries it has always been customary, or should I say, common decency to wear a mask when one is sick.  Even many of the doctors offices in the USA have had separate waiting rooms for patients who were sick, or they required you to wear a mask while in the building.  Additionally, hand sanitizer has always been around and available in most doctors offices.  The 99% of people your post indicate that do not have the virus are actual unknowns.  Unless ALL have been tested then we do not know the percentages, and to think you know everything there is to know about the COVID-19 virus and statistics is also Folly.  Until, as I indicated in my post above an entire cycle has run itself, and a chance to review it in its entirety is conducted, percentages and actualities are an will not be known.  Please understand your beliefs are your own and no one can change them, but to constantly insist it is correct is also folly and only leads to frustration.

 

Mask wearing where it has been put in place and ordered by laws and edicts needs to be adhered to.  Just because you believe that it is your right not to wear one, then you need to live in your own world and sphere of influence and not create an issue for yourself or anyone else by falling afoul of the rules....  

[Logosone]

4 hours ago, ThLT said:

Regarding Iceland stats (incorrectly applied to everyone/other countries):

 

Iceland is an island,

isolated in the middle of the Atlantic.

 

Another (more representative) stat: The US has almost 100,000 deaths.

EDIT: Now 100,400 deaths.

The US has a population of 330,000,000.

 

100,400 deaths is 0.03 % of the population.

 

In fact the US has 1,680,625 cases, which as a percentage is 0.5% of the US population.

 

A figure very close to Iceland's 0.8%. Allow for almost double the number in the US, to account for the cases not identified, and you still have a figure very, very close to Iceland's actual, more accurate figure.

 

So looks like you can indeed transpose Iceland's figure to other countries.

[redwood1]

13 minutes ago, transam said:

I think you are wrong, so go for it, show us wearing a mask is a no-no.....????

 

[Logosone]

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

What is a fallacy is to believe that wearing masks is unsustainable.  For years, in Hong Kong, and many other Asian countries it has always been customary, or should I say, common decency to wear a mask when one is sick. 

 

In Hong Kong and Japan a tiny minority of people wore a mask before the virus. You know which minority? The sick. Healthy people, very logically and sensibly, did NOT wear masks as a rule.

 

The sick can, and should, continue to wear a mask.

 

What will be on the way out soon is the HEALTHY being forced to wear masks. Because it makes no sense. Hong Kongers and Japanese saw it before the virus, hopefully you can too. Only the sick wore masks.

[aj73]

Relax, we're all going to get it. Vaccination is probably going to kill off another 1% so either way it's Russian Roulette, thanks CCP... 

[ThaiFelix]

56 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

As said before this is an uncharted area that we are now in with regards to Covid-19. Never has a complete cycle been viewed and nor have stats been completed on populations after a cycle has run its course.  To link a study that is still under way anywhere and use it to gauge the rest of the world, including Thailand is Folly.  Those that wish to believe and constantly quote a study which is incomplete and used as there bias, notice I did not say basis, are those that do not look at the big picture and try to push an agenda only they believe in.  To become unhinged and bristle at the thought they could be wrong incites them to become further entrenched in their thinking process and beliefs and they become close minded individuals or resemble conspiracy theorists.

 

As far as wearing a mask, it may be your choice, but when laws or edicts are put in place, you need to put those rights aside and follow the rules, not just to protect yourself, but to protect all others that contact is made with.  Just like anything there will always be detractors and despots, but in the end all you create is frustration for yourself and push yourself into possibly needing medical attention, either from disease or from mental disorders and stress you create for yourself.

 

Life is what it is, you can only change the sphere of influence you have directly around you, but to try and change what you have no control of is just plain ridiculous in nature.  If you do not like what the cards you have been dealt by life are then anyone is free to change there venue.  

Excellent post, thanks!

 

[Stoker58]

Sad to see so many Karens on this thread defending the forced use of slave masks. This is not a Thai issue, it’s happening all over the western world. Fair play to this man for standing up for his rights.

[RocketDog]

23 hours ago, robblok said:

No its not got plenty of foreign guys here finding ways not to use a mask and endanger others not input contact details as required. Saying the system is useless but at the same time worrying that its used to track them (how can a system be worthless on one side while work perfectly to track them)

 

Its a rule to wear masks at markets so just do it its not that hard to do. 

I largely agree with you but note that it is entirely possible for a system to be both useless and ineffective simultaneously. There are numerous examples extant. 

[RocketDog]

1 hour ago, Travis179 said:

Completely false. Another pompous, armchair COVID expert. Please post your sources. And then I'll respond with an equal number of sources (recent) completely contradicting them.

Correct. So why not err on the side of caution as simple prudence demands in unknown situations? 

 

If you are the only one who knows "the truth" it's your responsibility to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt, or more practically, simply smugly let the rest of us blunder forward in our ignorance. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by RocketDog

[5633572526]

23 hours ago, robblok said:

No its not got plenty of foreign guys here finding ways not to use a mask and endanger others not input contact details as required. Saying the system is useless but at the same time worrying that its used to track them (how can a system be worthless on one side while work perfectly to track them)

 

Its a rule to wear masks at markets so just do it its not that hard to do. 

I wear my mask but will not be downloading a tracking app of any kind.

as to your foreigners not wearing masks I decided to count today on my morning 5k walk before coffee on sukhumvit road here in bkk. 
farang without mask 1, Thai without masks including the majority of motorcycle taxi drivers gathered around their stations 23. Yes there were many more Thais on my walk than farang but we are no less compliant than Thais we just stand out more and make easy targets.