13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yet another powerful post from thaibeachlovers. He sure has a way with emojis in lieu of facts!

1 minute ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Yet another powerful post from thaibeachlovers. He sure has a way with emojis in lieu of facts!

I think the point is that he wants to write in a language that Trump understands.

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

The way it's going the US will hit herd immunity way ahead of the rest of the world and be ready to motor ahead under Trump's second term. They already have increases in employment, so it's looking good.

 

You remind me of kid I grew up with.  He would borrow my Biology notebook at the end of the quarter to copy, so he could eke out a   C- or D +   for the class. Yet Shazaam, you have magically morphed into an expert in epidemiology, virology and population dynamics. Who says you can’t get water from a rock?!  

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The way it's going the US will hit herd immunity way ahead of the rest of the world and be ready to motor ahead under Trump's second term. They already have increases in employment, so it's looking good.

No, Sweden is ahead of the US on the herd immunity gamble.  Care to see how it's going?

 

"Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown."...

 

"At 43 deaths per 100,000, Sweden’s mortality rate is among the highest globally and far exceeds that of neighboring Denmark and Norway, which imposed much tougher lockdowns at the onset of the pandemic."   https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong

 

  

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When that's the best you've got, well....

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

When that's the best you've got, well....

Actually quite apt if either it symbolized fiddler on the roof metaphor for surviving in Trump's life of uncertainty or Nero metaphor on fiddling while US pandemic raged. 

On 7/3/2020 at 1:30 PM, johnpetersen said:

More significantly, hospitalizations are way up.  It's only a matter of time before deaths start to spike, too, despite the significant improvements in care and treatment.

and what "significant improvements in care and treatment" would that be? Far as I know they still haven't decided if mechanical respirators are a good idea or not, there is no drug to cure a virus and a vaccine is only a hope.

On 7/3/2020 at 8:51 PM, heybruce said:

No, Sweden is ahead of the US on the herd immunity gamble.  Care to see how it's going?

 

"Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown."...

 

"At 43 deaths per 100,000, Sweden’s mortality rate is among the highest globally and far exceeds that of neighboring Denmark and Norway, which imposed much tougher lockdowns at the onset of the pandemic."   https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong

 

  

As anyone that has paid attention knows, that was because they didn't isolate the vulnerable. The death rate of healthy individuals without underlying health problems is quite low, isn't it?

All lockdowns do is delay the infection of the population that is without immunity. Unless a country wishes to remain in lockdown ( for potentially years ) it's inevitable that there will be a second wave. Most will not have more than symptoms similar to flu and I expect almost all to survive, except for those with health problems.

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and what "significant improvements in care and treatment" would that be? Far as I know they still haven't decided if mechanical respirators are a good idea or not, there is no drug to cure a virus and a vaccine is only a hope.

remdesivir, steroids,  less use of mechanical ventilators instead using CPAP machines and bilevel positive airway pressure devices, having patients lie face down... 

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As anyone that has paid attention knows, that was because they didn't isolate the vulnerable. The death rate of healthy individuals without underlying health problems is quite low, isn't it?

All lockdowns do is delay the infection of the population that is without immunity. Unless a country wishes to remain in lockdown ( for potentially years ) it's inevitable that there will be a second wave. Most will not have more than symptoms similar to flu and I expect almost all to survive, except for those with health problems.

Right, and we are doing a great job of isolating the vulnerable, aren't we?

 

"Nursing home residents account for nearly 1 in 10 of all the coronavirus cases in the United States and more than a quarter of the deaths, according to an Associated Press analysis of government data released Thursday."   https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/nursing-homes-represent-more-1-4-covid-19-deaths-u-n1231547

 

Add to that the fact that herd immunity is a conjecture, not a proven fact, and the argument for business as usual becomes very weak.

On 7/2/2020 at 4:47 PM, heybruce said:

Why would a rational person surmise there is a lot of illegal voting going on?  The risks are high, criminal prosecution followed by expulsion from the country.  The rewards, an insignificant chance of influencing an election, are low to non-existent.

 

As has been explained repeatedly, getting an ID that the state will accept for voting is not easy for many eligible citizens.  Repeating that it is easy over and over again does not change a lie into the truth.

A rational person would surmise a lot of illegal voting is going on because the chances of getting caught are so low. It's much like why a lot of people drive over the speed limit. This is very basic stuff.

 

Now where on Earth did you get the crazy idea that getting an ID or anything else in life needs to be easy? That concept is just plain bizarre.

10 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

A rational person would surmise a lot of illegal voting is going on because the chances of getting caught are so low. It's much like why a lot of people drive over the speed limit. This is very basic stuff.

 

Now where on Earth did you get the crazy idea that getting an ID or anything else in life needs to be easy? That concept is just plain bizarre.

The chances of getting caught may be low but the penalties are pretty disastrous. And what would be the incentive that would outweigh the penalties?

12 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Now where on Earth did you get the crazy idea that getting an ID or anything else in life needs to be easy? That concept is just plain bizarre.

Because voting is a right. Not something you have to earn.

Just now, johnpetersen said:

The chances of getting caught may be low but the penalties are pretty disastrous. And what would be the incentive that would outweigh the penalties?

I don't know. Ask the people who get caught.

Just now, johnpetersen said:

Because voting is a right. Not something you have to earn.

SCOTUS has upheld voter ID. 

1 minute ago, Crazy Alex said:

SCOTUS has upheld voter ID. 

Given how the current majority was chosen, why should that be a surprise? 5-4 decisions leave room for doubt.

3 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

A rational person would surmise a lot of illegal voting is going on because the chances of getting caught are so low. It's much like why a lot of people drive over the speed limit. This is very basic stuff.

 

Now where on Earth did you get the crazy idea that getting an ID or anything else in life needs to be easy? That concept is just plain bizarre.

Since you have to give a great deal of identifying information in order to register to vote, the chances of getting caught are high if there is a review of votes or audit of voter rolls.  Also, as noted, the penalties are stiff and the benefit is usually nonexistent.

 

My argument has been that getting a voter ID is difficult to impossible for some people.  The "crazy ID that getting an ID" should be easy comes from posters like Crazy Alex, who wrote:  "Regardless, they should get an ID. It's easy and cheap and all normal Americans should have one whether or not they vote."  in post #503 on this topic.

3 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Not to anyone who has paid attention to how many elderly people Cuomo murdered with his insanely stupid policy of forcing nursing homes to take COVID-19 patients. And you should probably read what the topic of this thread is before babbling about deflection. Oops!

In the early days of the infection tough choices had to be made in order to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed.  Hindsight has shown some of the decisions made were mistakes.  However New York learned from these mistakes and now has a very low infection and death rate.

 

Unfortunately states such as Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc. have not learned from these mistakes.

4 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

Because voting is a right. Not something you have to earn.

Like owning a gun.  And here we are again.  It takes an ID, a background check and "permission" from local government to exercise that right.  So I guess you oppose all that stuff for purchase of a gun?

 

 

5 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Given New York has over 11 times more deaths than Texas while having a 30% lower population than Texas, there's really no learning any other state should be seeking from New York. Cuomo and De Blasio screwed the pooch up, down and sideways.

Given that New York is averaging less than a thousand new cases a day, while Texas more 6,000, Arizona almost 4,000 and Florida more than 8,000 (now the nations leader in new infections), there's really no question that New York is doing something right and these other states getting things very wrong.

5 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Yes, it's true. It's cheap and easy to get an ID. SCOTUS has upheld voter ID. And anyone who is serious about having any sort of life already has or should have an ID. This is very basic stuff.

So you've gone from it's easy to get an ID to it shouldn't be easy back to it is easy.

 

You've also gone back to making the repeatedly disproven claim that it is easy to get an ID.  Try working with real world facts.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html

5 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

Like owning a gun.  And here we are again.  It takes an ID, a background check and "permission" from local government to exercise that right.  So I guess you oppose all that stuff for purchase of a gun?

 

 

Guns are used to commit violent crimes with appalling frequency in this country.  Votes aren't.

5 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

Like owning a gun.  And here we are again.  It takes an ID, a background check and "permission" from local government to exercise that right.  So I guess you oppose all that stuff for purchase of a gun?

 

 

The day someone gets murdered by a voting machine, you will have made a cogent point.

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Guns are used to commit violent crimes with appalling frequency in this country.  Votes aren't.

Pure Deflection.  Is owning a gun a right?  is it?  You  just can't stand having your argument that requiring IDs to vote are an imposition destroyed by your refusal to acknowledge that therefore it is a violation of the right to buy a gun.  IN truth neither is an unjust imposition.

 

Luckily others reading this see the hypocrisy.  Asking for an ID to vote is not a great imposition and there is no evidence that anyone in the USA is having problems getting valid ID.  More pure projection from the left that there is voter suppression when none exists.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

The day someone gets murdered by a voting machine, you will have made a cogent point.

I have a cogent point that destroys the one that asking for ID to vote is an imposition.  Your deflection (are you and heybruce the same person?) is irrelevant.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

The day someone gets murdered by a voting machine, you will have made a cogent point.

No one has ever been murdered by a fraudulent check. Abolish checking IDs to cash a check! Woo hoo I love this game!

9 hours ago, heybruce said:

So you've gone from it's easy to get an ID to it shouldn't be easy back to it is easy.

 

You've also gone back to making the repeatedly disproven claim that it is easy to get an ID.  Try working with real world facts.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html

Wow, I didn't know they had special rules for latinos, blacks and old people to make getting an ID more difficult.

7 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

Pure Deflection.  Is owning a gun a right?  is it?  You  just can't stand having your argument that requiring IDs to vote are an imposition destroyed by your refusal to acknowledge that therefore it is a violation of the right to buy a gun.  IN truth neither is an unjust imposition.

 

Luckily others reading this see the hypocrisy.  Asking for an ID to vote is not a great imposition and there is no evidence that anyone in the USA is having problems getting valid ID.  More pure projection from the left that there is voter suppression when none exists.

No, your gun nonsense is pure deflection.  Rights are restricted when necessary.  That's why you can't cry "Fire" in a crowded theater just for the fun of it, and you must have a background check before you purchase a gun. 

 

When someone proves there is a problem with illegal voting that is greater than the problem of disenfranchising voters with ID requirements, then ID"s will be justified.  Until then, voter ID laws are simply a tool to suppress the vote.

 

"there is no evidence that anyone in the USA is having problems getting valid ID."

 

Total BS, addressed just a few posts before yours.   https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html

5 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

 

 

No one has ever been murdered by a fraudulent check. Abolish checking IDs to cash a check! Woo hoo I love this game!

No, but people have been cheated by a fraudulent check.  Show me a national or state-wide election in modern history in which voter fraud resulted in the result being changed.

5 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Wow, I didn't know they had special rules for latinos, blacks and old people to make getting an ID more difficult.

Didn't read past the headline, did you?  You really are a Trump supporter.