90 day signing and request to see bank details and statement of account

[Thai Terrier]

Hi All

Any comments would be appreciated on the below

Attended Buriram Immigration to complete 90 day signing today. ( from the UK )

I was passing so thought I would sign although not technically required at the present time.

Previously had Non O plus extensions for 3 years but through error on my part had to re-enter Thailand on Tourist Visa in January of this year and start the process again.

Unfortunately due to the rule changes and withdrawal of the Embassy Letter I only had 11 monthly transfers of over 65K from abroad and CW where I was residing at the time insisted that it was not a new Non O application and since I did not have 12 transfers I would have to transfer 800K across for the Non O

and then apply again after 2 months for the extension.

Money transferred and extension issued in March by CW

I had no intention of using the money in the bank method for next years extension and utilised some of the funds as a deposit for a vehicle shortly after receiving the extension.

At the present time I have 14 months of transfers from abroad and intend to utilise this method for next years extension after continuing to transfer the relevant amounts.

I did not bring any bank documents because I understood that 90 day signing and extension requirements are two completely separate issues. I realise some offices required applicants to return after 3 months to check the bank account.

The Immigration Officer insisted that I produce the bank accounts to show that the 800K remained for the 3 months after the extension. I tried explaining that I realised I no longer qualified for the money in the bank method for next years extension and that I would apply using the monthly transfers of which I already had 14 transfers.

The end result was that I was not allowed to sign for the 90 days and that I must produce the evidence of the 800k remaining in the account.

Two questions - 

1. I realise the IO's interpretation vary but was he correct according to the rules.

2. Has anyone returned after three months with the amount in the bank reduced below 800k and what has been the result. I am hoping that it has just been a question of no longer qualifying for the money in the bank method.

Any replies appreciated.

 

[cleopatra2]

My understanding is that the requirements to maintain the money in bank for 3 months was a condition  to  qualify for the extension on application. Not a requirement to qualify for the next extension.

 

[ubonjoe]

You have fallen into a grey area of the rules. When you apply for the extension using 800k baht in the bank for 3 months after and then 400k baht.

Your question about changing to the income option has been asked many times but I have not been able to answer it. I have suggested that people ask their local offices about it. But is a little late to do that now. Perhaps go back and show them proof of your transfers into the country.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

My understanding is that the requirements to maintain the money in bank for 3 months was a condition  to  qualify for the extension on application. Not a requirement to qualify for the next extension.

 

That was changed in March of last year.

The 800k baht has to be in the bank for 2 months before, then 3 months after and then 400k baht until you top up your account now.

[Thai Terrier]

19 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

My understanding is that the requirements to maintain the money in bank for 3 months was a condition  to  qualify for the extension on application. Not a requirement to qualify for the next extension.

 

I think you mean 2 months before application to qualify. The question is what happens if 800k is not kept in the bank for the next 3 months.

[Thai Terrier]

1 minute ago, cleopatra2 said:

One of the  conditions of the extension being granted was to maintain a balance of 800K three months after issue.

It was not to fulfil a requirement for the following years extension.

By failing to keep the required amount for the due length of time , the person has failed to maintain the requirements of the issued extension.

That is open to interpretation and that is the reason why I am asking for any personal experience. My view is that to be granted the extension you have to ensure you meet the conditions for application. What happens after that. I know the balance has fallen below 800k shortly after issue of the extension but I can support next years application with the monthly income which I could do at the present time. Am I in breach ? Is the extension invalid ?

At the end of the day I would start again if I had to do so with a visit abroad by the time of the next extension and then show a full 12 months with income from the UK. But the question remains. Is there a penalty for not adhering to the 3 months 800k in the bank. Why did the IO not let me sign the 90 days without the bank details.

[Baerboxer]

As you state, different offices and different officers may interpret and apply rules differently.

 

It our office, when granting the extension a slip is stapled into your passport telling you on which date you are required to return to the office, with updated bank book, showing the 800k minimum is still there. The slip also warns you that the extension is conditional on the balance being maintained, and that failing to maintain it, or failing to report on the specified date, cancels the extension. 

 

I doubt my office would be interested in what you intend next year when requesting a new extension. I think they'd simply want to see the bank balance as that's the rules the extension was granted on.

 

Your office may take a different approach of course. Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

[natway09]

Maybe they should just get rid of the income method all together & use the money in the bank only

where it must not drop below 800K all year except for B visa & W/P holders who have a different set of rules,

Not a lot to ask if it is your new home is it ?

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, Thai Terrier said:

I think you mean 2 months before application to qualify. The question is what happens if 800k is not kept in the bank for the next 3 months.

See an agent and forget all this money in the bank nonsense.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, natway09 said:

Maybe they should just get rid of the income method all together & use the money in the bank only

where it must not drop below 800K all year except for B visa & W/P holders who have a different set of rules,

Not a lot to ask if it is your new home is it ?

Nice if your in that position, but not practical or possible for many.

 

Many married a long time ago and used Savings to acquire land, property but unfortunately these investments don't count towards extensions. They now live on monthly pensions.

Why should they be penalised for adhering to the rules as they once were in their time before the changes.

[OneeyedJohn]

8 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

Why should they be penalised for adhering to the rules as they once were in their time before the changes.

Thaksin started all this nonsense.

 

When I first came to Thailand a visa was 500 baht, and then it changed and kept changing, and now it's a nightmare frankly.

[Seeall]

22 hours ago, Thai Terrier said:

That is open to interpretation and that is the reason why I am asking for any personal experience. My view is that to be granted the extension you have to ensure you meet the conditions for application. What happens after that. I know the balance has fallen below 800k shortly after issue of the extension but I can support next years application with the monthly income which I could do at the present time. Am I in breach ? Is the extension invalid ?

At the end of the day I would start again if I had to do so with a visit abroad by the time of the next extension and then show a full 12 months with income from the UK. But the question remains. Is there a penalty for not adhering to the 3 months 800k in the bank. Why did the IO not let me sign the 90 days without the bank details.

May I sumarize : 800k Two Months before!  NOT less than 800k for 3 months and NEVER less than 400k SIMPLE!!!

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I doubt my office would be interested in what you intend next year when requesting a new extension. I think they'd simply want to see the bank balance as that's the rules the extension was granted on.

Exactly. If you apply for an extension based on money in the bank then that's the deal. Fall below the 800k 3 month post then you won't be able to obtain new extension. OP needs to obtain new non o prior to current permission of stay ends.

Edited June 17, 2020 by DrJack54

[Peter Denis]

There are several issues in your case.

Can you please clarify already the following.

> Does the Buriram IO require retirees using the 800K money-in-bank method to visit their office after 3 months to check the bank-balance?

If that is not the case, it's strange that they ask you to show such evidence when doing your 90-day report in person.  These are two totally unrelated matters, and you could have easily done the 90-day report on-line, and doing so there is no need to provide evidence of your bank-balance. 

But it seems you have unwittingly awoken some sleeping dogs. 

> Are you now required to go back there to prove you still meet the financial requirements for your 1-year extension of stay?

If you used some of the 800K already, and Buriram IO does not accept your 14 months of monthly-income transfers, you are in an impossible situation, and will probably have to leave the country once the Amnesty is over, having to start all over again from scratch.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Peter Denis

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Are you now required to go back there to prove you still meet the financial requirements for your 1-year extension of stay?

I can't see how they can enforce that. We know Jomtien has the 3 month bogus same gig.

As you mentioned 90 day report has zip to do with 3 month bankbook check 800k.

 

 

[Joinaman]

31 minutes ago, Seeall said:

May I sumarize : 800k Two Months before!  NOT less than 800k for 3 months and NEVER less than 400k SIMPLE!!!

that depends on your office and the idiots working there. I had a copy, in Thai, and in English, showing this 2 months before, but was told NO, 3 months and refused to look at the paper, saying they did not understand it. Then they proceeded to fine me for being 1 day late in depositing the 800,000 due to being one day late according to their thinking 

So no, not simples !!

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

depends on your office and the idiots working there.

Very true. The 3 months prior was changed to 2 when the rules changed. Couple of offices refuse to step inline for reasons just typical to Thailand.

Which office? Might help others in your area.

[Scott Tracy]

2 hours ago, natway09 said:

Maybe they should just get rid of the income method all together & use the money in the bank only

where it must not drop below 800K all year except for B visa & W/P holders who have a different set of rules,

Not a lot to ask if it is your new home is it ?

There has been great discussion on the subject of which method is best. Saying that they should get rid of the income method is, in my view facile.

 

Not only that, it detracts from the topic being discussed.

 

in my view, the extension was based on the 800,000 baht method, meaning that to gain the extension, 800,000 baht has to have been in a Thai bank account for a minimum of 2 months prior to the application. The extension is maintained by showing 800,000 in the Thai bank for a minimum of 3 moths after the grant of extension, ensuring, at each 90 report, thereafter, the balance has not fallen below 400,000.

Failure to comply with any of these conditions, renders the application invalid, therefore the extension is null and void. In my view...

[couchpotato]

23 hours ago, Thai Terrier said:

That is open to interpretation and that is the reason why I am asking for any personal experience. My view is that to be granted the extension you have to ensure you meet the conditions for application. What happens after that. I know the balance has fallen below 800k shortly after issue of the extension but I can support next years application with the monthly income which I could do at the present time. Am I in breach ? Is the extension invalid ?

At the end of the day I would start again if I had to do so with a visit abroad by the time of the next extension and then show a full 12 months with income from the UK. But the question remains. Is there a penalty for not adhering to the 3 months 800k in the bank. Why did the IO not let me sign the 90 days without the bank details.

When I renewed my extension last month I asked the same question, only because there absolutely nobody in the IO office at the time and the Jomtien Desk 8 people were very willing to chat.

So this is what I was told.

The requirement for the 800k for 3 months after your extension is issued, pertains to that extension, and if the IO is perhaps a stickler for the rules, or in a bad mood, they can cancel the extension at that time, if you have drawn down on it. (didn't ask if anyone had been caught this way). 

So the 7 months of the 400k and the 800k for 2 months before, actually applies to the next year extension, and if these amounts are not correct, then a new extension will not be granted.

 

Of course this is if you do things yourself, but probably can wiped if an agent is used.

So thats the interpretation from Jomtiem--hope it helps.

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

ensuring, at each 90 report, thereafter, the balance has not fallen below 400,000.

How did you come up with that. Just a suggestion, your own take on it?.

90 day report is not related to money in bank. 

I've lived here 7+ years on retirement extensions never done one 90 day report due to regular travel

Edited June 17, 2020 by DrJack54

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

and if the IO is perhaps a stickler for the rules, or in a bad mood, they can cancel the extension at that time, if you have drawn down on it. (didn't ask if anyone had been caught this way). 

If anyone made a slip up then they would be aware that they need kill current extension prior to expiry and obtain new non O. In other words start over. They would leave that till late. Exit without re-enter permit. 

As for 90 day reports (address) you would just do them online or via mail.

BTW have not hear of one report of cancelled extension due to what is discussed here.

Edited June 17, 2020 by DrJack54

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

...

The extension is maintained by showing 800,000 in the Thai bank for a minimum of 3 moths after the grant of extension, ensuring, at each 90 report, thereafter, the balance has not fallen below 400,000.

Failure to comply with any of these conditions, renders the application invalid, therefore the extension is null and void. In my view...

Except for the fact that your 90-day report has no connection or relation whatsoever to your bank-balance, it is just a report with which you confirm that you are still staying at the same place.  And you can do that report on-line with no questions asked about bank-balance. 

Yes, there are a couple of rogue IO offices (Jomtien and UdonThani) that do ask you to provide - when you use the money in bank method - evidence that 3 months after your 1-year extension of stay has been provided that the 800K is still in your personal thai bank-account.  But these are the odd exception rather than the rule.

 

 

[couchpotato]

21 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Except for the fact that your 90-day report has no connection or relation whatsoever to your bank-balance, it is just a report with which you confirm that you are still staying at the same place.  And you can do that report on-line with no questions asked about bank-balance. 

Yes, there are a couple of rogue IO offices (Jomtien and UdonThani) that do ask you to provide - when you use the money in bank method - evidence that 3 months after your 1-year extension of stay has been provided that the 800K is still in your personal thai bank-account.  But these are the odd exception rather than the rule.

 

 

100% correct.

[Tanoshi]

On 6/16/2020 at 6:05 PM, Thai Terrier said:

Previously had Non O plus extensions for 3 years but through error on my part had to re-enter Thailand on Tourist Visa in January of this year and start the process again.

Unfortunately due to the rule changes and withdrawal of the Embassy Letter I only had 11 monthly transfers of over 65K from abroad and CW where I was residing at the time insisted that it was not a new Non O application and since I did not have 12 transfers I would have to transfer 800K across for the Non O

and then apply again after 2 months for the extension.

Money transferred and extension issued in March by CW

That just doesn't make sense!

 

Are you stating after having entered on a TV in January, CW issued you a 1 year extension in March, without first obtaining the Non O, or by any chance did you use an agent?

When did you move to Buriram and did you file a TM30?

[Thai Terrier]

17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Exactly. If you apply for an extension based on money in the bank then that's the deal. Fall below the 800k 3 month post then you won't be able to obtain new extension. OP needs to obtain new non o prior to current permission of stay ends.

Therefore you are suggesting if the conditions regarding the 800k post extension , 400k interim and 800k pre next extension are not compiled with then the original non O is invalid and have to exit Thailand and re-start the process even if the requirements can be satisfied with the full 12 months income at the time of next extension.

Not a problem for me personally to leave at any time once flights available since I would return with the evidence of the full 12 months income but I raised the issue for discussion regarding the validity of the current non O and extension once the money in the bank conditions have been breached. 

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Thai Terrier said:

Therefore you are suggesting if the conditions regarding the 800k post extension , 400k interim and 800k pre next extension are not compiled with then the original non O is invalid and have to exit Thailand and re-start the process even if the requirements can be satisfied with the full 12 months income at the time of next extension.

The way it should be is that you failed to comply with the requirements when you applied for your next extension they could refuse to accept you application. There is no requirement in the immigration order for your balance to be checked at any time other than then. 

Some officers are requiring proof you kept the 800k baht for 3 months after you applied and are giving people a notice to do it then. 

Wanting to check it when you do your 90 day reports is way over the top in my opinion.

As I wrote before you should return with proof you can meet the requirements by transferring the 65k baht into the bank every month.

[Thai Terrier]

18 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

There are several issues in your case.

Can you please clarify already the following.

> Does the Buriram IO require retirees using the 800K money-in-bank method to visit their office after 3 months to check the bank-balance?

If that is not the case, it's strange that they ask you to show such evidence when doing your 90-day report in person.  These are two totally unrelated matters, and you could have easily done the 90-day report on-line, and doing so there is no need to provide evidence of your bank-balance. 

But it seems you have unwittingly awoken some sleeping dogs. 

> Are you now required to go back there to prove you still meet the financial requirements for your 1-year extension of stay?

If you used some of the 800K already, and Buriram IO does not accept your 14 months of monthly-income transfers, you are in an impossible situation, and will probably have to leave the country once the Amnesty is over, having to start all over again from scratch.

 

The extension was granted at CW and I was not given a slip to report back with bank book etc after 3 months. 

It was the first 90 day report at Buriram after re-locating and therefore I do not know whether it is standard practice for the bank details also to be provided after 3 months.

I will return in the next 7 days to complete the 90 day reporting with the bank details and see what happens. By attending to sign for the 90 days I am complying with the reporting requirements but you are suggesting that the extension is now invalid . No other issues - have TM30 receipt for new address in Buriram.

[Thai Terrier]

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

That just doesn't make sense!

 

Are you stating after having entered on a TV in January, CW issued you a 1 year extension in March, without first obtaining the Non O, or by any chance did you use an agent?

When did you move to Buriram and did you file a TM30?

I tried to limit the length of the original post. All done in correct order - TV , Non O then extension.

Moved to Buriram in April after obtaining extension from CW. TM30 filed and have receipt.

Never used an agent.

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, Thai Terrier said:

I tried to limit the length of the original post. All done in correct order - TV , Non O then extension.

Obviously not if your details are correct.

Entered Jan on a TV = 60 days until March.

Non O = 90 days March to June.

 

Again I'll ask if you used an agent?

Better still, attached edited copies of your TV, Non O and extension stamps.

[Thai Terrier]

37 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The way it should be is that you failed to comply with the requirements when you applied for your next extension they could refuse to accept you application. There is no requirement in the immigration order for your balance to be checked at any time other than then. 

Some officers are requiring proof you kept the 800k baht for 3 months after you applied and are giving people a notice to do it then. 

Wanting to check it when you do your 90 day reports is way over the top in my opinion.

As I wrote before you should return with proof you can meet the requirements by transferring the 65k baht into the bank every month.

I understand on application for renewal next year there could be an issue and I would simply exit and start again. I currently have 14 months of monthly transfers but only had 11 at the time of application for the non O and therefore used the money in the bank to obtain the visa. I do intend returning to complete the 90 day signing which was refused a few days ago and I will see what happens.

I agree in that it is a grey area but the purpose of the original post was to try and ascertain whether anyone has actually returned for the 3 month bank check having breached the conditions. I suspect if the balance has fallen below 800k why would anyone return for the check if it is not compulsory.

However , my experience with the refusal to be allowed to sign for the 90 days without the bank details caught me by surprise.