Solar pv cost

[dulov]

Hey there, i am considering a 6.4kw solar pv system for my 1 story house with tile roof and have been quoted 7baht for watt just for labor, no materials included. I understand it must be accomplished by a skilled technician but paying 45.000 thb for 1-2 day work in los isnt overpriced? How much did you guys pay? thanx for all suggestions.

[stouricks]

How can the labour cost depend on the power output capability of the system. 

A bit like carpet fitters in UK, who quote 'per sq mtr' but only actually 'fit' the outside edges, the middle follows suit.   PML

[Crossy]

Does that quote include all the paperwork needed to go "legal" or is it just the climbing and screwing together?

 

Considering what Global House charge "all in" for a 5kW grid-tie system 

https://www.globalhouse.co.th/product/detail/9229052020104

vs what we paid to DIY a 5.8kW system on our car-port it's probably par for the course

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1120934-how-about-a-solar-car-port-on-a-budget/

 

Yes, it does seem excessive even so.

 

As noted, charging per-watt seems odd, it is the same labour to install a 300W panel as a 345W panel but you pay 315 Baht more for the 345W.

 

On-grid, off-grid, hybrid?

 

Do you intend sourcing your own parts?

 

Are you aiming to be "legal" or wing-it and do net-metering, and hope the authority don't notice?

 

[northsouthdevide]

That seems very expensive to me. 

Here's the price for an on grid install from hua Hin... 

If you wanted hybrid or off grid, you could add on between 30,000 to 50,000 baht for a battery decent battery bank eather gel or lithium ion. 

[dulov]

The labor quote includes mounting panels on the roof, pull cable down to base floor and connect to inverter and grid. No legal paperwork with pea, i hope they wont notice ????. I plan to outsource my own equipment, hybrid inverter, panels, rails, cable etc... So basically its just price for work, if they bring additional accessories like cables which needs to be used, i need to pay them extra. I am not ready to DIY cause had roof leaks in the past, so i better leave it for experienced people but not for this price. I think mounting such system cant take more than 1 day for 2 skilled technicians and its a lot of money to quote for this. What u think should be a fair price ? thanx

[dulov]

@northsouthdevide thanx for link, i checked their website, the inverter they use is on-grid you cant connect batteries to it. If you want same brand solax you need to be ready to pay additional 50.000 just to have hybrid then add 70.000 thb for 5kW batter pack.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, dulov said:

How much did you guys pay? thanx for all suggestions.

1,100bht for an electric welder, 400bht for an angle grinder, 600bht for 6 m 2" x 4" steel beams, 100 rods, 50 grinder blades. About 3,000bht for all the tools and mounting parts.

Only mounted 2 x 330w panels, ready to do another 3 but COVID has pushed the prices of panels through the roof as all the factories appear to have shut down.

 

But now I can add as many more as I like for just the cost of the steel.

And the gear comes in very useful for fence repairs and little projects.

My front gate needed raising, builder wanted 3,500bht ......

Bit of cutting/grinding/welding and 2hrs of my time, the equipment has already paid for itself.

 

Around 12,000bht  for each 1000w of power generation including all equipment (using GTI, no batteries).

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by BritManToo

[northsouthdevide]

I hear you, but it's possible that you can use a method called ac poupling to get around the off grid problem, and once the install is done, it would be very simple for you to diy a new inverter if needed, that I'm sure you could get much cheaper. 

Are you looking for a hybrid system, or on grid? 

I'll be happy with a system that reduces my electric bill in my new house to under 1000bht a month, but still allows me to use 3x air cons, 2 fridges, a tv and low wattage indoor lighting. 

If I can manage that by net metering, I'll be happy to not have a battery bank, and if I need a bigger system for any reason, I plan to add some extra panels, on my carport (diy) connected to cheap plug in grid tie inverters like this. 

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, northsouthdevide said:

connected to cheap plug in grid tie inverters like this. 

I've got those Suoer GTIs (one 600w, one 1000w).

Work well but the fans are a bit noisy.

Each 330w panel generates 1 unit/day.

Edited July 2, 2020 by BritManToo

[dulov]

@northsouthdevide thanx for suggestion but that wont save much money, for 6.4kW system u would need 7 of them @ 3000thb each; for that price u can buy a proper 5kW inverter which can handle 6.4kW. My issue is somewhere else - the install cost is high. I could do the electric stuff but i am not going up the roof, too dangerous for me. I got now another quote from neighbor city and the price is same - 50.000 above the price of material cost. Does it make sense to pay it?

[northsouthdevide]

Britmantoo, that sounds good to me. 

How many watts do the panels supply? 

Most of my research on YouTube is from USA and UK, and they're using the no brand silver inverters from amazon. 

They recommend only supplying about 600w as running at 1000w burns them out, but these red ones look a bit stronger, but all the reviews seem to be in Thai or malay, so I'm basing my judgement on the 5 stars that they mostly get. 

Do you put full watts into them? 

[northsouthdevide]

Dulov, in my experience, if you can't, or are not prepared to do anything yourself, then you have to pay the price. 

I have to add to that, when I said earlier that it was expensive, I had not long been awake, and had done some mental arithmetic, and had it quite a lot dearer.... There is a diy system on lazada for around 110,000, and the same system with a different company for 165,000, fitted so that price is kind of in line if you forget the price per watt and just look at the end price. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by northsouthdevide

[BritManToo]

36 minutes ago, northsouthdevide said:

Britmantoo, that sounds good to me. 

How many watts do the panels supply? 

Most of my research on YouTube is from USA and UK, and they're using the no brand silver inverters from amazon. 

They recommend only supplying about 600w as running at 1000w burns them out, but these red ones look a bit stronger, but all the reviews seem to be in Thai or malay, so I'm basing my judgement on the 5 stars that they mostly get. 

Do you put full watts into them? 

Half that you expect.

My 330w panels produce 1 unit/day each.

I put 660w worth of panels into my 600w Suoer ..... and the strongest sunlight at mid-day produced 350w once in the last 6 months.

 

You've really gotta forget about watts, and just think about units generated.

1 x330w panel produces 1 unit/day in Thailand.

1 x100ah 12v wet battery stores 1 unit (although taking much more than 1/2 unit out will quickly kill the battery)

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by BritManToo

[northsouthdevide]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Half that you expect.

My 330w panels produce 1 unit/day each.

I put 660w worth of panels into my 600w Suoer ..... and the strongest sunlight at mid-day produced 350w once in the last 6 months.

 

You've really gotta forget about watts, and just think about units generated.

1 x330w panel produces 1 unit/day in Thailand.

1 x100ah wet battery stores 1 unit (although taking much more than 1/2 unit out will quickly kill the battery)

 

That's some good info. 

That's what I love about this site, you don't have to be the op, or sometimes you don't even have to post at all, but can still benefit. 

Thanks to dulov for op and all after ????

[sidgy]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

1 hour ago, northsouthdevide said:

connected to cheap plug in grid tie inverters like this. 

I've got those Suoer GTIs (one 600w, one 1000w).

Work well but the fans are a bit noisy.

Each 330w panel generates 1 unit/day.

Edited 1 hour ago by BritManToo

So, if i understand this correctly, you connect your PV panels to your GTI and then you just plug these into any household socket? Or have i completely misunderstood.

looking at possibly DIY 6 pv panels onto carport roof but was worried about the tie in to my electricity system as not had the best of experiences with local "qualified electricians"

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, sidgy said:

So, if i understand this correctly, you connect your PV panels to your GTI and then you just plug these into any household socket? Or have i completely misunderstood.

looking at possibly DIY 6 pv panels onto carport roof but was worried about the tie in to my electricity system as not had the best of experiences with local "qualified electricians"

Yep, that's all there is to it.

Connect the two + from the panels together, connect the two - from the panels together.

Run a 2.5mm twin mains cable to the GTI box.

Plug the GTI box into the nearest socket using the plug provided.

Edited July 2, 2020 by BritManToo

[Crossy]

I wouldn't go over a couple of kW of connected panels just plugged into an outlet, but it's a quick and easy way to get going with a few panels.

 

We're currently pushing 21A from our car port, I'm going to up rate the 220V cable from the current 2.5mm² (which gets decidely warm) to 4mm².

 

[sidgy]

31 minutes ago, Crossy said:

I wouldn't go over a couple of kW of connected panels just plugged into an outlet, but it's a quick and easy way to get going with a few panels.

 

We're currently pushing 21A from our car port, I'm going to up rate the 220V cable from the current 2.5mm² (which gets decidely warm) to 4mm².

Yes, wouldnt be doing that as my carport is on the north side of the house, i will only be putting one row of panels in as a second row would be in shadow of the house for most of the year.

it is 5.8m wide so will be limited to 5 panels , possibly 6 with a small overhang to the sides depending on exact dimensions of panels i buy. 

There is a rake of 5 degrees down towards the north so was comtemplating making frames that will be hinged on the south end so that during April-August they would be in lay flat position (ie 5 degrees tilt to North) then during Sept to March tilted 15-20 degrees to the South. Not sure yet if the added expense of having to make individual frames for each seperate panel and having to raise/lower them twice a year with my proclivity to mash my fingers would be reclaimed by the extra watts garnered

[northsouthdevide]

1 hour ago, sidgy said:

So, if i understand this correctly, you connect your PV panels to your GTI and then you just plug these into any household socket? Or have i completely misunderstood.

looking at possibly DIY 6 pv panels onto carport roof but was worried about the tie in to my electricity system as not had the best of experiences with local "qualified electricians"

That's correct, they are plug and play. You just plug the inverter into an ac socket and you use solar power before you'll use grid, and providing you have an old style meter, your wheel will spin backward, then when the sun goes down, will spin forward again when you use the electric. 

They are really good if you use a lot of electricity during peek sun hours, and also good if you use in the evening, provided you don't let your meter reading be in the negative to last reading, or that it's not running backwards when it's read. 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, northsouthdevide said:

They are really good if you use a lot of electricity during peek sun hours, and also good if you use in the evening, provided you don't let your meter reading be in the negative to last reading, or that it's not running backwards when it's read. 

 

An increasing number of grid-tie inverters are available with a "do not export" function (I have one) which means that the inverter tailors its output so that the meter will never go backwards. Some (more expensive) units have timers to control this function, but it's not difficult to arrange a timed relay to enable/disable on particular dates (or just add a switch).

 

Details of how to do it are coming soon in the "Solar Car Port" thread.

 

[northsouthdevide]

Look forward to that crossy. 

There's a lot of good info on this sight from a lot of different sources. 

You are definitely the man when it comes to all things electric ????

[sidgy]

1 hour ago, northsouthdevide said:

provided you don't let your meter reading be in the negative to last reading, or that it's not running backwards when it's read. 

Yes, thats the only thing that worries me. no problem when im at home but when travel restrictions lifted, i work overseas, so it will be in the wifes totally forgetful hands to unplug the GTI on meter reading day. Looking back at our last six months it has always been on the same date, ie 5th of the month but now thinking more about it, what if that falls on a holiday and they come early. What are the consequences if they see the meter running backwards?

 

Edit. just seen Crossys post #20, that would solve it,

Edited July 2, 2020 by sidgy

[Metropolitian]

8 hours ago, sidgy said:

Yes, thats the only thing that worries me. no problem when im at home but when travel restrictions lifted, i work overseas, so it will be in the wifes totally forgetful hands to unplug the GTI on meter reading day. Looking back at our last six months it has always been on the same date, ie 5th of the month but now thinking more about it, what if that falls on a holiday and they come early. What are the consequences if they see the meter running backwards?

 

Edit. just seen Crossys post #20, that would solve it,

 

 

Just thinking... build a wooden box around the meter with a 'door-open-switch' which turns on the 'no-export' mode on the GTI.

 

Colab @sometimewoodworker and @Crossy   ?

[sometimewoodworker]

7 hours ago, Metropolitian said:

 

 

Just thinking... build a wooden box around the meter with a 'door-open-switch' which turns on the 'no-export' mode on the GTI.

 

Colab @sometimewoodworker and @Crossy   ?

The box and switch would be trivial to build, but I’ve never seen a meter in one so it might have the opposite effect to the intended and, create suspicion.

[Crossy]

17 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The box and switch would be trivial to build, but I’ve never seen a meter in one so it might have the opposite effect to the intended and, create suspicion.

 

Yeah, that would be my immediate thought too.

 

The pole and meter belong to the supply authority anyway, we shouldn't really be attaching anything to them (I know, I know, TiT).

 

My timer (details coming soon) is nearly as simple and is completely invisible to the meter man.

[Metropolitian]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The box and switch would be trivial to build, but I’ve never seen a meter in one so it might have the opposite effect to the intended and, create suspicion.

The most suspected are the less obvious ????

 

 

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, that would be my immediate thought too.

 

The pole and meter belong to the supply authority anyway, we shouldn't really be attaching anything to them (I know, I know, TiT).

The casing is  on 2 meter height, the other meters higher.

Collect a few 'We clean your AIRcon stickers' , you can find them on the pole itself and on mailboxes, stick it on the glass door. Sensor it and ready to be a pirate ????

 

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

My timer (details coming soon) is nearly as simple and is completely invisible to the meter man.

Perfect, unless the meter man decide to change the day of metering..

 

 

 

 

I can imagine that there are two worlds for the meters, urban and non-urban.

In the situation of the posted photo, who thinks the meter man would observe the wheel spinning direction.

 

If I was living non-urban, thus has the pole with only one meter attached on it on a height that the meter man has not the need to stand on their toes. Yeah then the pole would be 'untouchable' and a no-go-zone, but nobody forbids me to put another mini pole (on own land) with a movement sensor mounted on it.

Every time the meter man comes near the pole, and so is the sticker and mail man unfortunately, the sensors triggers movement and activate an action.. (preventing spinning back the wheel).

Or a underground pressure sensor at the pole... hmm hmm  ????

 

One day we have an article  ' Electricity meter man calls for emergency suspecting landmine '

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

The pole and meter belong to the supply authority anyway, we shouldn't really be attaching anything to them (I know, I know, TiT).

If you applied to 'own' the meter, would they still have the right to change it for a non-reversing one?

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you applied to 'own' the meter, would they still have the right to change it for a non-reversing one?

 

AFAIK the meter always belongs to the supply authority you can't "own" it. They supply it and maintain it, unlike the PWA who want you to buy your own meter and (probably) replace it if it gets "stuck".

 

Our meter is nicely inaccessible, the meter reader has to slide behind a hedge, avoid tripping over the water pipe and move a canvas flap belonging to the restaurant next door, then stand on tippy-toes to see it (I use my phone camera). So it would actually be fairly easy to install a movement detector pointing at it.

 

In reality he's been coming on the 17th (occasionally +- 1 day) since 2012, so I just stop exporting on the 16th at 00.01 and re-start on the 18th at 23.59 unless he's already been in which case I can re-start early.  "Costs" me 30 units worth of export.

 

[Metropolitian]

35 minutes ago, Crossy said:

In reality he's been coming on the 17th (occasionally +- 1 day) since 2012,

Here a copy of mine, not complete but pretty much consistent on the 11th and then suddenly 7th .

Only december 2019 was a day later, a new meter was placed a few days before that and the meter man tried to meter on the 7th only to know that our meter has changed.

Next day at the utility office it was billed (partly from old meter which was noted on a paper by the company who did the change and part from the new meter) on the 8th and afterwards it is automatic every month on the 7th.

 

 

Never a day earlier or late, even on holidays.
 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Metropolitian

[sidgy]

So, after reading this and Crossys car port thread, if the meter man were to see the meter running backwards, the likely worst outcome would be they would change the meter to one that wont run backwards. Is this correct?

With the size of system i am planning, (<2kw) i dont think i would be exporting much most days anyway and could probably just run a couple of aircons through the day of the meter reading (+/- 1) rather than turn off the system, at least then we would be getting a nice cool, de-humidified house for a few days.

your thoughts and wisdom welcome