UK to review potentially faulty England COVID-19 death data

[snoop1130]

UK to review potentially faulty England COVID-19 death data

By Andrew MacAskill

 

A sign advising people to refrain from entering if experiencing the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) symptoms is pictured at a job centre in Longton, Stoke-on-Trent, Britain July 16, 2020. REUTERS/Carl Recine

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Health Minister Matt Hancock ordered a review into how England reports coronavirus deaths, after academics said the daily figures may include people who have died of other causes.    The way Public Health England, a government agency responsible for managing infectious disease outbreaks, calculates the figures means they might look worse there than in other parts of the United Kingdom, according to two academics.

 

Britain has been the European country worst hit by the virus, with an official death toll of more 45,000. But the government has said international comparisons are misleading because countries record coronavirus deaths differently.

 

Yoon Loke, from the University of East Anglia, and Carl Heneghan, from the University of Oxford, said Public Health England cross-checks the latest notifications of deaths against a database of positive test results – so anyone who has tested positive can be recorded as dying from the virus.

 

"Matt Hancock is going to be doing a review of those statistics with Public Health England," Prime Minister Boris Johnson told a media conference on Friday.

 

In a blog called "Why no-one can recover from COVID-19 in England", the academics said that patients who tested positive for coronavirus, but are successfully treated, will still be counted as dying from the virus "even if they had a heart attack or were run over by a bus three months later".

 

The academics said this was the reason why England's death figures vary substantially from day to day.

 

The same approach is not used in other parts of the United Kingdom. In Scotland, there is a 28-day cut-off, after which a patient who has tested positive is not automatically considered to have died from the virus.

 

Office for National Statistics figures on excess deaths in Britain show more than 64,000 people have died than usual during the coronavirus pandemic. Many health experts focus on those rather than the official COVID-19 toll.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-07-17

 

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[Dumbastheycome]

A conundrum !

An already ailing victim succumbs  to  Covid-19. Prior  health  was  not  great  but that also not  potentially an immediate cause for concern about impending death.

So  what precipitated the  sudden death? An unexpected deterioration of a prior health issue of it's  own course or an indirect aggravation precipitated  by the effects of  Covid-19?

Damned if I would  want to be involved in  differentiating cause for politically  desired incentive !

[Chomper Higgot]

Clutching at straws.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Keep it simple.

 

Deaths counted - Five year average of deaths counted over the same time period within the year.

 

 

[ukrules]

It's pretty obvious what's been going on here. In order to make the situation appear even worse than it is someone has decided to inflate the numbers massively.

 

Just watch - It's going to be one of these anti brexit, anti government, pro EU 'left wing labour activist' screaming banshee types who do nothing but make trouble.

 

The worker drones in government departments are full of them.

[metisdead]

An offensive post has been reported and removed as well as a reply. 

[chickenslegs]

2 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Office for National Statistics figures on excess deaths in Britain show more than 64,000 people have died than usual during the coronavirus pandemic.

The OP doesn't state where the "usual" number of deaths is taken from, or over what period of time. Annual/monthly deaths stats can vary a lot.

 

However, looking at the stats from 2000 to 2018, it's pretty obvious that an extra 64,000 deaths (even over a period of 6 months) is a hefty increase.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281488/number-of-deaths-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

The OP doesn't state where the "usual" number of deaths is taken from, or over what period of time. Annual/monthly deaths stats can vary a lot.

 

However, looking at the stats from 2000 to 2018, it's pretty obvious that an extra 64,000 deaths (even over a period of 6 months) is a hefty increase.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281488/number-of-deaths-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

They took the average death rate for half a year for the previous 5 years and now its 64,000 more. So that is easily contributed to the virus. This is the most sound reasoning there is and that is why experts use it. People like Ukrules and Dumbastheycome wont like it as its even worse as the 45,000 registered. 

 

This is the same in my country, the extra death rate is higher then the registered numbers for the virus. So much for all the moaners who think countries are OVER reporting. Most countries except Belgium under reported. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53073046

[Bluespunk]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

It's pretty obvious what's been going on here. In order to make the situation appear even worse than it is someone has decided to inflate the numbers massively.

 

Just watch - It's going to be one of these anti brexit, anti government, pro EU 'left wing labour activist' screaming banshee types who do nothing but make trouble.

 

The worker drones in government departments are full of them.

That’s not why this happened and no one is trying to inflate the figures “massively” or otherwise.

 

It’s just a method of calculating COVID-19 deaths that probably needs reviewing or clarifying.

 

It’s not an attempt to make things appear worse, if anything it’s an attempt to get completely accurate data that maybe goes too far. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/17/matt-hancock-calls-urgent-inquiry-phe-covid-19-death-figures?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Edited July 17, 2020 by Bluespunk

[mrfill]

With the level of competence shown over the last 3 months, surely no-one is the slightest surprised to discover that the Hancock has difficulties counting. He tried to rewrite history recently claiming that lock down started on March 16 - a week earlier than reality.

[Pedrogaz]

Cover up coming

[japanese]

Unfortunately simply looking at excess deaths does not work either.

 

People were not going into hospital for treatment that should have done for example.

 

It will be a tough one to sort out.

 

But the fact is people 'with' the virus are assumed to have dies 'from' the virus.  This is clearly wrong.  This has been pointed out in the 'conspiracy' media consistently.  The alternate points of few on this pandemic are being shown to be true as it happens.  The mainstream media seem to be the conspiracists after all.

[englishoak]

The UK have been misrepresenting the deaths since the beginning, case in point all check ups and appointments cancelled has lead to deaths and assumption if corona virus as the reason has often been listed without ever testing the body, just suspicion has been reason enough and that is not how the medical profession does things, many professionals in the sector have voiced concerns for many months. Administration has also voiced concerns and the media has largely ignored it.  

 

There are literally hundreds of complaints from families, doctors, nurses etc saying the cause of death was falsely attributed to coronavirus, shipping people into care homes then literally exposing the vulnerable to untested care workers and staff has not helped or that they have been left without regular check means a lot have died thorough negligence. There is a scandal brewing not just in the UK but globally.  

 

As has been said before, by the time this is all over and the dust has settled  more will have died from the atrocious response and panic than the virus.

 

I predict the department public health England who is responsible for this. will as a result of investigations and hearings be abolished. It is not fit for purpose  

Edited July 18, 2020 by englishoak

[robblok]

30 minutes ago, japanese said:

Unfortunately simply looking at excess deaths does not work either.

 

People were not going into hospital for treatment that should have done for example.

 

It will be a tough one to sort out.

 

But the fact is people 'with' the virus are assumed to have dies 'from' the virus.  This is clearly wrong.  This has been pointed out in the 'conspiracy' media consistently.  The alternate points of few on this pandemic are being shown to be true as it happens.  The mainstream media seem to be the conspiracists after all.

And less people have died because of traffic accidents because people were locked up and worked from home. So the excess death rate works the best. It might not be perfect but its the best there is.

 

Not saying its full proof but its as close as we can get. Nobody wants to make this look worse it opposite is true. Just look at Trump or Thailand, there are more forces at work trying to make it look better then to make it look worse. 

 

The moaners and deniers are crying as it shows its even more serious then people thought. 

[car720]

Can't they just consult the death certificate?  Surely the quacks can write "virus related".

[eeworldwide]

2 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Cover up coming

Is that the name of a new movie franchise- like the Carry On series (ie - Carry on camping) ?
Cover Up Cumming! or Coming!

 

Who would be the stars of this new series?

[rupert the bear]

this appears to be in line with the levels of competence shown so far,ferguson etc and the other govt experts told us massive nos,they have a lot on the line.credibility,perhaps jail certainly future employment so we see padded figures.not a surprise we have consistently seen this type of behaviour at govt,local govt and police level.it needs a public enquiry into this pattern of behaviour.it appears a corrupt pattern to pad a political agenda,IE paedophilia as well as covid.the heath ,cliff richard cases showed collusion with media and police and then the mass rapes by asian gangs showed collusion with police and local govt,this is another bigger and again disturbing aspect of govt UK.look at the embassy here.incompetence ,self interest, arrogance etc and we are paying for all of the above,there needs to be accountability or it is massively corrupt.

[superal]

The UK hospitals receive a payment from the government when a patient dies with or from the covid 19 virus 

[johng]

10 minutes ago, superal said:

The UK hospitals receive a payment from the government when a patient dies with or from the covid 19 virus 

Really ?  I though they where funded  by the NHS on a set budget.

I heard the claim that American hospitals are getting paid more for WuFlu patients.

[superal]

46 minutes ago, johng said:

Really ?  I though they where funded  by the NHS on a set budget.

I heard the claim that American hospitals are getting paid more for WuFlu patients.

58 minutes ago, superal said:

The UK hospitals receive a payment from the government when a patient dies with or from the covid 19 virus 

As was told to me by a friend whose auntie was in the ICU and the message given by the duty doctor

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, superal said:

58 minutes ago, superal said:

The UK hospitals receive a payment from the government when a patient dies with or from the covid 19 virus 

As was told to me by a friend whose auntie was in the ICU and the message given by the duty doctor

See here for US, https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/21/facebook-posts/Fact-check-Hospitals-COVID-19-payments/ not true, and here for UK, https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-death-certificate/false-claim-uk-doctors-get-75-for-signing-death-certificates-120-if-patient-had-covid-19-idUSKBN22X2LD, not true.

 

Something like this would be all over the net if true.

Edited July 18, 2020 by stevenl

[Chomper Higgot]

55 minutes ago, superal said:

58 minutes ago, superal said:

The UK hospitals receive a payment from the government when a patient dies with or from the covid 19 virus 

As was told to me by a friend whose auntie was in the ICU and the message given by the duty doctor

I suspect your aunt was delirious.

[SunsetT]

On 7/17/2020 at 2:26 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Clutching at straws.

 

Yes because surely there cant be that many who die later of other causes.

[superal]

20 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I suspect your aunt was delirious.

1/ Not my aunt  2/ Statement made by duty doctor 3/ Please read post slowly so as you can understand and give a decent reply

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, superal said:

1/ Not my aunt  2/ Statement made by duty doctor 3/ Please read post slowly so as you can understand and give a decent reply

You allege the statement by a duty doctor that you tell us arrived to you via somebody’s aunt.

 

 

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, superal said:

1/ Not my aunt  2/ Statement made by duty doctor 3/ Please read post slowly so as you can understand and give a decent reply

Maybe post more clearly? Now it is not possible to deduct who the doctor made the statement to, your friend or his aunt.

 

Reply has been given already btw, no extra payments for covid deaths.

[Baerboxer]

On 7/17/2020 at 8:26 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Clutching at straws.

 

 

No they're not. Deaths have been to easily recorded as due to this virus.

 

Unlike some other countries who started re-writing their procedures to make their figures look suddenly a lot better.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

On 7/18/2020 at 6:34 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

I suspect your aunt was delirious.

 

At least his, or is it his friend's aunt. isn't constantly confused by seemingly simple straight forward posts on Thai Visa forum. Unlike some ????

[3NUMBAS]

try getting into a job centre !theyre all closed and bolted so no chance of a job interview or even bennys

[rickudon]

9 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No they're not. Deaths have been to easily recorded as due to this virus.

 

Unlike some other countries who started re-writing their procedures to make their figures look suddenly a lot better.

 

 

Far to many people are not tested and die, and often death not recorded as Covid. As has been said many times, the most reliable statistic is excess deaths (deaths above the 5 year average for that month). That stands at 64,000. With no other known cause for this, it is the most reliable indicator of probable Covid mortality. End of debate.

 

To put it in a different context, compared to the first world war, on average 15,000 British soldiers died each month, while in the first half of this year, on average over 10,000 people died of Covid each month in the UK (assuming deaths began in January).