Britain nears abandoning Brexit trade deal hope - The Telegraph

[transam]

33 minutes ago, paddypower said:

are those ostrich eggs?   it always strikes me that Brexiteers who abandoned their country do not give a <deleted> about the effect it will have on their brethren. no class

I think by my posts even you would have realised I haven't abandoned my country, I am in my retirement home chummy, giving replies to those who are not even British spouting doom and gloom, but I sort of understand that because they are going to pay more for the EU countries who are....................with their handouts from them.    ????

[paddypower]

3 hours ago, transam said:

I think by my posts even you would have realised I haven't abandoned my country, I am in my retirement home chummy, giving replies to those who are not even British spouting doom and gloom, but I sort of understand that because they are going to pay more for the EU countries who are....................with their handouts from them.    ????

touchy, eh? first, I was speaking in generalities about ALL the Brexiteers on here, some of whom have homes, families and other interests back in the UK.

As for doom and gloom, by us EU citizens, I'd say pot calls kettle black (the EU sky is falling).

Even some of my good Brit friends here in Thailand frequently forecast the demise of the EU, even though I keep my peace.

[transam]

1 hour ago, paddypower said:

touchy, eh? first, I was speaking in generalities about ALL the Brexiteers on here, some of whom have homes, families and other interests back in the UK.

As for doom and gloom, by us EU citizens, I'd say pot calls kettle black (the EU sky is falling).

Even some of my good Brit friends here in Thailand frequently forecast the demise of the EU, even though I keep my peace.

Touchy, me, naaaaah, just an honest reply.....????.......Yes, I cannot see the EU surviving either.

[kingdong]

6 hours ago, paddypower said:

my error - I was thinking different spelling for being in the <deleted>house. You're right - it's still dire straits. DS - one of the best live bands - Alchemy was an awesome concert and one of the great 'live' double vinyl albums. 

second only to the greatest hits of george formby.

[7by7]

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

You can be as (sic) as you care to be but these numbers, along with your claim, are all ridiculous,

Tell that to the pro Brexit, pro no deal Express! Cos, as the link shows, that's where I got them from!

[7by7]

17 hours ago, kingdong said:

national newspapers write and report what their owners tell them too.

In many respects; yes.

 

The Express was sold by the pornographer Richard Desmond to Reach plc, which owns a number of national, regional and local titles from all parts of the political spectrum; all of which have editorial autonomy.

 

The Express has always been Eurosceptic, and a big UKIP supporter. All papers in the Express group participated in the January 2011 so called 'Crusade for Freedom.' A petition calling for the UK to withdraw from the EU; without consulting the people via a referendum.

 

During the referendum all Express group papers supported leave, and that stance has not changed since.

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, paddypower said:

touchy, eh? first, I was speaking in generalities about ALL the Brexiteers on here, some of whom have homes, families and other interests back in the UK.

As for doom and gloom, by us EU citizens, I'd say pot calls kettle black (the EU sky is falling).

Even some of my good Brit friends here in Thailand frequently forecast the demise of the EU, even though I keep my peace.

Even?

I would guess that the percentage of Brits forecasting EU's demise is significantly higher in LoS than in UK

[7by7]

10 hours ago, paddypower said:

somebody, please post that report that showed UK net contributions to the EU were less than the forecasted hit to the UK's economy from Brexit.

 

I posted a link here

 

Edit: I see others have posted more since.

Edited August 12, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[kingdong]

9 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Even?

I would guess that the percentage of Brits forecasting EU's demise is significantly higher in LoS than in UK

well that was one export we,re well shot of.if i was an ex pat in thailand i,d be more worried about the coming situation in a country where you,re merely a guest.

Edited August 12, 2020 by kingdong

[Airbagwill]

On 8/11/2020 at 3:33 AM, transam said:

So you want to stay in the EU because it is easier for office staff..Riiiiiiiight.  ????

 

  And the award for this thread's most facile comment goes yet again to .... . 

[Airbagwill]

Brexiteers were abd are never happy  ... like a kid who always looks at a siblings plate and thinks "it's  not fair, they've got more!!".

Now rather than admit they were wrong IDS and Farage are both complaining it's not the Brexit they voted for...... really? Wasnt that the whole point....there was no specification.

 

You reap what you sew

[RayC]

On 8/11/2020 at 3:59 PM, nauseus said:

I hope that you might have been aware that I was not referring to the contributors, of which there are but few!

I think we are talking at cross-purposes. Wasn't the original post about nations leaving the EU? I suggested (by implication) that the net contributors - Germany, France, The N'lands - would most likely be the ones to jump ship if any, but that none of them show any signs of doing so. I assume that you are not suggesting that net recipients such as Hungary or Poland will up sticks? (even though I'd concede that the current govts. of both probably would like to).

On 8/11/2020 at 3:59 PM, nauseus said:

 

The EU seems to believe that a slow deal is a bit better than a no deal, unless there's a paic on, like Brexit, in which case the Brussels turbo spins up!

Now that is pot, kettle, black. There was a deal placed on the table by the EU 2 or 3 years ago, which the UK government rejected and then spent 3 years arguing about what it did want. This UK government now wants that original deal - or something approaching it. However, the EU withdrew the offer long ago realising that it was too generous. Hardly the EU's fault.

 

Of the current problems. Imo both sides need to 'get real' about the fishing issue. In the big scheme of things, Johnson shouldn't worry about upsetting a few Scottish fishermen. Likewise, Barnier needs to tell Macron and Sanchez something similar re their French and Spanish counterparts. It shouldn't be difficult to reach a compromise here.

 

The major stumbling block is the integrity of the Single Market. Rightly (imo), or wrongly, the EU will not compromise on this issue. The UK should have realised this 3 years ago and the sooner we come to terms with this fact, the better.

 

On 8/11/2020 at 3:59 PM, nauseus said:

 

Source? Page 3 GROWTH (as below, not The Sun) 

https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/issues/economy/global-economy-watch/assets/pdfs/gew-october-2017.pdf

 

 

Thanks for the link. Interesting read (What follows ignores the effects of the Covid crisis. Who knows where that will leave us?). Europe - including the UK - is a mature market and, over the medium term, probably will lag other blocks in economic growth and/or growth in trade. Nevertheless, in absolute terms, the EU market - together with the US - remain the two largest trading entities. The EU has 7 of the top 20 - 3 of the top 10 - importers. Within the EU there are no barriers to entering these markets. There have to be good reasons for giving up this access and I fail to see it. (Incidentally my source: https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/wts2020_e/wts20_toc_e.htm

Statistical report 2020. Table 7, I think. Can't say that I've read that much of the document, mind!!!)

[RayC]

15 hours ago, paddypower said:

Ray, I think the argument you are trying to rebut is tainted, because the comparison should be the combined trade of the 4 (excluding the UK) against the EU's combined trade. Can you post the combined trade for the 4 countires only, please, as I cannot find the original post?

Paddy, You can find a plethora of data here https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/statistics/

[7by7]

46 minutes ago, RayC said:

<snip>

The major stumbling block is the integrity of the Single Market. Rightly (imo), or wrongly, the EU will not compromise on this issue. The UK should have realised this 3 years ago and the sooner we come to terms with this fact, the better.

In 2016 Vote.Leave promised that leaving the EU would not effect our access to the single market. Many in the UK knew this to be a lie because the EU would never agree to it, But pointing this out was met with the usual Vote.Leave response of 'Project Fear!'

 

Unfortunately, enough people swallowed the lie and we all know the result.

[7by7]

11 hours ago, transam said:

<snip>

I think by my posts even you would have realised I haven't abandoned my country,

 You mean posts like your response to an article about how any US trade deal will boost the UK economy by only 0.16%.

 

This response:

 

 

I wonder how many other ex pat Brexiteers share your 'I'm alright, Jack' attitude. A substantial proportion would be my guess.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

I think we are talking at cross-purposes. Wasn't the original post about nations leaving the EU? I suggested (by implication) that the net contributors - Germany, France, The N'lands - would most likely be the ones to jump ship if any, but that none of them show any signs of doing so. I assume that you are not suggesting that net recipients such as Hungary or Poland will up sticks? (even though I'd concede that the current govts. of both probably would like to).

Now that is pot, kettle, black. There was a deal placed on the table by the EU 2 or 3 years ago, which the UK government rejected and then spent 3 years arguing about what it did want. This UK government now wants that original deal - or something approaching it. However, the EU withdrew the offer long ago realising that it was too generous. Hardly the EU's fault.

 

Of the current problems. Imo both sides need to 'get real' about the fishing issue. In the big scheme of things, Johnson shouldn't worry about upsetting a few Scottish fishermen. Likewise, Barnier needs to tell Macron and Sanchez something similar re their French and Spanish counterparts. It shouldn't be difficult to reach a compromise here.

 

The major stumbling block is the integrity of the Single Market. Rightly (imo), or wrongly, the EU will not compromise on this issue. The UK should have realised this 3 years ago and the sooner we come to terms with this fact, the better.

 

Thanks for the link. Interesting read (What follows ignores the effects of the Covid crisis. Who knows where that will leave us?). Europe - including the UK - is a mature market and, over the medium term, probably will lag other blocks in economic growth and/or growth in trade. Nevertheless, in absolute terms, the EU market - together with the US - remain the two largest trading entities. The EU has 7 of the top 20 - 3 of the top 10 - importers. Within the EU there are no barriers to entering these markets. There have to be good reasons for giving up this access and I fail to see it. (Incidentally my source: https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/wts2020_e/wts20_toc_e.htm

Statistical report 2020. Table 7, I think. Can't say that I've read that much of the document, mind!!!)

From your responses, I agree, we are talking at cross-purposes. 

[paddypower]

9 hours ago, RayC said:

Paddy, You can find a plethora of data here https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/statistics/

thanks. So the 4 are Canada, Australia & NZ & the US?

[paddypower]

9 hours ago, nauseus said:

From your responses, I agree, we are talking at cross-purposes. 

Just like Barnier and Frosty. 555

[paddypower]

14 hours ago, kingdong said:

well that was one export we,re well shot of.if i was an ex pat in thailand i,d be more worried about the coming situation in a country where you,re merely a guest.

Thats a odd comment, to say the least. Most of the Brits in Thailand contribute a lot to the Kingdom's economy, as well as services such as teaching  them proper English, like? Do you consider the 1.3 million UK citizens living in the EU as being 'well shot of' ? Not to mention the increasing numbers of highly trained who are leaving your shores, as we debate.?

[paddypower]

On 8/12/2020 at 8:41 AM, transam said:

I tend to think more positive until the facts are known, if I didn't I would end up like 49...........????

Love that emotion! 49 is having heart palpitations right now, as ''that woman of low intelligence'' (Harris) is going to go pitbull on him & the Pensive one.

[paddypower]

On 8/11/2020 at 8:36 PM, AndrewMciver said:

Rory Stewart was rite - in the end we are going to have to sign up to a trade deal eventually with our biggest market. And when we do, they will want the same stuff they want now. 

As the Stones said: 'It's not what the want, it's what they need' - a better democratic system than the Electoral College.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, paddypower said:

Just like Barnier and Frosty. 555

You can be Barmier. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Yet another twist to keep you dribbling......????

Ewe.

[paddypower]

14 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Brexiteers were abd are never happy  ... like a kid who always looks at a siblings plate and thinks "it's  not fair, they've got more!!".

Now rather than admit they were wrong IDS and Farage are both complaining it's not the Brexit they voted for...... really? Wasnt that the whole point....there was no specification.

 

You reap what you sew

I'm in stitches

[bannork]

36 minutes ago, paddypower said:

I'm in stitches

Stop needling him.

[vogie]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

Stop needling him.

Wrong thread!

[david555]

????

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/12/uk-not-match-fit-post-brexit-trade-talks-claims-new-zealands/
 

 

UK not 'match fit' for post-Brexit trade talks, claims New Zealand's deputy prime minister  
Winston Peters complains about lack of progress in negotiations, saying Britain 'can do more than one deal at a time' 

By James Crisp, 
Brussels Correspondent 
12 August 2020 • 5:06pm 

 

Britain attempting multiple Brexit trade deals at once is like a cricketer who hasn't played in 30 years attempting to win the Ashes, New Zealand's deputy prime minister said on Wednesday. New Zealand has blamed Britain for slow progress towards a free trade deal and accused it of not being "match fit" for international negotiations. 

British officials are currently in formal trade talks with the European Union, Japan, New Zealand, Australia and the US and racing to finalise as many deals as possible before the end of the Brexit transition period on December 31. 

Winston Peters, New Zealand's deputy PM, said he was "very frustrated" with the progress made on a post-Brexit agreement with Britain, adding: "We just need the British to realise that you can do more than one deal at a time."

more...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/12/uk-not-match-fit-post-brexit-trade-talks-claims-new-zealands/#comment
 

Edited August 13, 2020 by david555

[nauseus]

46 minutes ago, david555 said:

????

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/12/uk-not-match-fit-post-brexit-trade-talks-claims-new-zealands/
 

 

UK not 'match fit' for post-Brexit trade talks, claims New Zealand's deputy prime minister  
Winston Peters complains about lack of progress in negotiations, saying Britain 'can do more than one deal at a time' 

By James Crisp, 
Brussels Correspondent 
12 August 2020 • 5:06pm 

 

Britain attempting multiple Brexit trade deals at once is like a cricketer who hasn't played in 30 years attempting to win the Ashes, New Zealand's deputy prime minister said on Wednesday. New Zealand has blamed Britain for slow progress towards a free trade deal and accused it of not being "match fit" for international negotiations. 

British officials are currently in formal trade talks with the European Union, Japan, New Zealand, Australia and the US and racing to finalise as many deals as possible before the end of the Brexit transition period on December 31. 

Winston Peters, New Zealand's deputy PM, said he was "very frustrated" with the progress made on a post-Brexit agreement with Britain, adding: "We just need the British to realise that you can do more than one deal at a time."

more...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/12/uk-not-match-fit-post-brexit-trade-talks-claims-new-zealands/#comment
 

I wonder how Winston expects "match fitness" after 47 years in the EU where practising is banned? No nets, trials and especially friendlies. 

[RayC]

33 minutes ago, david555 said:

????

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/12/uk-not-match-fit-post-brexit-trade-talks-claims-new-zealands/
 

 

UK not 'match fit' for post-Brexit trade talks, claims New Zealand's deputy prime minister  
Winston Peters complains about lack of progress in negotiations, saying Britain 'can do more than one deal at a time' 

By James Crisp, 
Brussels Correspondent 
12 August 2020 • 5:06pm 

 

Britain attempting multiple Brexit trade deals at once is like a cricketer who hasn't played in 30 years attempting to win the Ashes, New Zealand's deputy prime minister said on Wednesday. New Zealand has blamed Britain for slow progress towards a free trade deal and accused it of not being "match fit" for international negotiations. 

British officials are currently in formal trade talks with the European Union, Japan, New Zealand, Australia and the US and racing to finalise as many deals as possible before the end of the Brexit transition period on December 31. 

Winston Peters, New Zealand's deputy PM, said he was "very frustrated" with the progress made on a post-Brexit agreement with Britain, adding: "We just need the British to realise that you can do more than one deal at a time."

more...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/12/uk-not-match-fit-post-brexit-trade-talks-claims-new-zealands/#comment
 

And therein lies one of the practical problems of Brexit. The UK simply does not have enough trained trade negotiatiors. It was, at best, naive to think that we could untangle our relationship with the EU, run simultaneous trade negotiations with the US et al and successfully conclude all this in 11 months.

 

No doubt there will be face saving 'arrangements' on the free exchange of tin tacks or such like, 'oven ready' by the end of the year - and heralded by Johnson as the start of the bright new future - but the likelihood of any comprehensive trade treaties being agreed by year-end is, realistically, virtually zero. 

 

[RayC]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

I wonder how Winston expects "match fitness" after 47 years in the EU where practising is banned? No nets, trials and especially friendlies. 

Then why promise more than you know that it's possible to deliver (oven ready deals).

 

No point suggesting that you will win the (able bodied) World Cup if your keeper has no arms and your star striker has one leg.

 

1 minute ago, nauseus said: