2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Not really, as most of them still reap a net financial gain by being members.

The financial costs and benefits of EU membership cannot be assessed purely on the net contribution each member makes to the EU budget.

 

Even the Express reported last January that by the end of 2020 the estimated loss to the UK's GDP since 2017 by Brexit will be £23 billion more than the total net contributions paid by us to the EU since 1973!

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by 7by7
fix link

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

The financial costs and benefits of EU membership cannot be assessed purely on the net contribution each member makes to the EU budget.

 

Even the Express reported last January that by the end of 2020 the estimated loss to the UK's GDP since 2017 by Brexit will be £23 billion more than the total net contributions paid by us to the EU since 1973!

 

ah!

the Express what would Chancellor Coffer Master do without the Express, the ultimate source of fact and guidance!

 

doesn't even have smth useful on page 3

 

 

Rory Stewart was rite - in the end we are going to have to sign up to a trade deal eventually with our biggest market. And when we do, they will want the same stuff they want now. 

2 hours ago, RayC said:

France, Germany, The Netherlands... Net contributors who don't show much inclination to leave the EU.

Thought that you might approve. Obviously, the EU believes that 'no deal is better than a bad deal'!

 

Source?

I hope that you might have been aware that I was not referring to the contributors, of which there are but few!

 

The EU seems to believe that a slow deal is a bit better than a no deal, unless there's a paic on, like Brexit, in which case the Brussels turbo spins up!

 

Source? Page 3 GROWTH (as below, not The Sun) 

https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/issues/economy/global-economy-watch/assets/pdfs/gew-october-2017.pdf

 

 

22 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

Rory Stewart was rite - in the end we are going to have to sign up to a trade deal eventually with our biggest market. And when we do, they will want the same stuff they want now. 

Rory who?

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The financial costs and benefits of EU membership cannot be assessed purely on the net contribution each member makes to the EU budget.

 

Even the Express reported last January that by the end of 2020 the estimated loss to the UK's GDP since 2017 by Brexit will be £23 billion more than the total net contributions paid by us to the EU since 1973!

But the reason why they are not wanting to do a runner yet is that they get money from the EU.

 

I have no idea why you added your second comment because not only is it irrelevant, the numbers are impossibly wrong. 

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The Commonwealth is not, and never has been, a member of the EU!

 

Out of the 53 member countries, how many are, or were, in the EU?

 

Well, the UK was and Malta and the Republic of Cyprus still are.

 

 

Er..not what he meant. But you probably knew that.

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

But the reason why they are not wanting to do a runner yet is that they get money from the EU.

Which has zero relevance to my comment.

 

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I have no idea why you added your second comment because not only is it irrelevant, the numbers are impossibly wrong. 

The billions lost to the UK GDP since 2016 compared to our net contribution to EU funds is very relevant when looking at the fiscal costs and benefits, profit and loss if you prefer, of Brexit.

 

Of course you dismiss those figures as irrelevant and 'impossibly wrong (sic)' because it blows all financial arguments in favour of Brexit to smithereens.

 

If you doubt the veracity of the figures, take it up with the pro hard Brexit Express; because, as the link shows, that's where I got them from!

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Er..not what he meant. But you probably knew that.

Really?

 

It was his reply to @RayC's comment "In any event, a larger grouping containing Australia, Canada, NZ and the UK already exists - the Commonwealth - and it's influence on the world stage is close to zero."

 

Perhaps you can read his mind again and tell us what he did mean?

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Rory who?

he means rod stewart.

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Which has zero relevance to my comment.

 

The billions lost to the UK GDP since 2016 compared to our net contribution to EU funds is very relevant when looking at the fiscal costs and benefits, profit and loss if you prefer, of Brexit.

 

Of course you dismiss those figures as irrelevant and 'impossibly wrong (sic)' because it blows all financial arguments in favour of Brexit to smithereens.

 

If you doubt the veracity of the figures, take it up with the pro hard Brexit Express; because, as the link shows, that's where I got them from!

You can be as (sic) as you care to be but these numbers, along with your claim, are all ridiculous,

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by nauseus

8 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Makes you rather surprised that the 27 are not chomping at the bit to break away from the awful EU, like the great glorious and supremely wise UK did.

 

I don't suppose it might be because they have enough brains to realise, that negotiating as part of one of the largest trading blocks in the world, brings you huge advantages. On the other hand they/we could vote to be a minnow on the the world trading stage, and get treated as such. No more than we deserve really.

wait until the eu want more contributions to make up for our shortfall,anyway it,ll be up to the people not governments who decide if they stay or will they go,and with the eff off depression thats in the post for us all lets see shall we.

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The financial costs and benefits of EU membership cannot be assessed purely on the net contribution each member makes to the EU budget.

 

Even the Express reported last January that by the end of 2020 the estimated loss to the UK's GDP since 2017 by Brexit will be £23 billion more than the total net contributions paid by us to the EU since 1973!

national newspapers write and report what their owners tell them too.

25 minutes ago, kingdong said:

national newspapers write and report what their owners tell them too.

You very conveniently avoid any fact with the usual conspiracy theory.

According to your own government (HRMC), about your fav option:

"The latest static estimate for the annual administrative burden on UK businesses from additional import and export declarations is £7.5 billion – updated to reflect 2017 data – with import declarations accounting for around half of this figure. The £7.5 billion estimates the administrative burden of completing customs declarations for all EU trade in goods movements."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hmrc-impact-assessment-for-the-movement-of-goods-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-without-a-deal/hmrc-impact-assessment-for-the-movement-of-goods-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-without-a-deal-third-edition#section-b

That's nearly as much as UK net contribution to EU.

 

25 minutes ago, candide said:

You very conveniently avoid any fact with the usual conspiracy theory.

According to your own government (HRMC), about your fav option:

"The latest static estimate for the annual administrative burden on UK businesses from additional import and export declarations is £7.5 billion – updated to reflect 2017 data – with import declarations accounting for around half of this figure. The £7.5 billion estimates the administrative burden of completing customs declarations for all EU trade in goods movements."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hmrc-impact-assessment-for-the-movement-of-goods-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-without-a-deal/hmrc-impact-assessment-for-the-movement-of-goods-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-without-a-deal-third-edition#section-b

That's nearly as much as UK net contribution to EU.

 

estimates,ifs buts,perhaps,maybes,theres a naff off depression in the post in case you haven,t noticed,also i was talking about national newspapers to answer a specific point,all you,ve done is ramble on about something else,regarding the point i raised google up....donald trelford the cry of the lost people.

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by kingdong

3 hours ago, kingdong said:

he means rod stewart.

Definitely Jackie Stewart as he likes to go around in circles too.  

13 hours ago, RayC said:

It's increasingly difficult to keep things under wraps. Notwithstanding that, I think that it is impossible for this group of 5 to become a reality and negotiate any deals anywhere before the New Year.

 

As you say, things will be clearer in the New Year but, based on the last 3 years, imo the chances of the UK having reasonably comprehensive trade arrangements with any of its major trading partners by then are pretty slim.

Have you noticed how the Brexiteers arguments have decended to the level of pitiful? They know nothing about the future, only 'hoping' things will work out; and suggesting they could spoil the game by persuading other EU member countries to leave. ''A known unknown''.

Whereas the EU is a known known. The fact that all 27 members (with the net contributors leading the way) managed to agree to an economic recovery plan shows me that....you're screwed.

On 8/11/2020 at 4:16 AM, RayC said:

Why on earth would any of the 27 EU states want to join 5 states with whom they have ever-loosely economic ties and very few historical links? (I think that France has given up the fight for Quebec).

 

In any event, a larger grouping containing Australia, Canada, NZ and the UK already exists - the Commonwealth - and it's influence on the world stage is close to zero.

Ray, I think the argument you are trying to rebut is tainted, because the comparison should be the combined trade of the 4 (excluding the UK) against the EU's combined trade. Can you post the combined trade for the 4 countires only, please, as I cannot find the original post?

6 hours ago, kingdong said:

wait until the eu want more contributions to make up for our shortfall,anyway it,ll be up to the people not governments who decide if they stay or will they go,and with the eff off depression thats in the post for us all lets see shall we.

somebody, please post that report that showed UK net contributions to the EU were less than the forecasted hit to the UK's economy from Brexit.

 

13 minutes ago, paddypower said:

somebody, please post that report that showed UK net contributions to the EU were less than the forecasted hit to the UK's economy from Brexit.

 

forecasts,projections,estimations,any shiny arsed spivs from the city who couldn't spot the 2008 crash in our midst to give their " expert " views?

14 hours ago, RayC said:

It's increasingly difficult to keep things under wraps. Notwithstanding that, I think that it is impossible for this group of 5 to become a reality and negotiate any deals anywhere before the New Year.

 

As you say, things will be clearer in the New Year but, based on the last 3 years, imo the chances of the UK having reasonably comprehensive trade arrangements with any of its major trading partners by then are pretty slim.

I tend to think more positive until the facts are known, if I didn't I would end up like 49...........????

48 minutes ago, kingdong said:

forecasts,projections,estimations,any shiny arsed spivs from the city who couldn't spot the 2008 crash in our midst to give their " expert " views?

you are avoiding to answer half the question. and yes, London was/is in dire straites. ????

1 hour ago, paddypower said:

somebody, please post that report that showed UK net contributions to the EU were less than the forecasted hit to the UK's economy from Brexit.

 

Who cares................?    

19 minutes ago, paddypower said:

you are avoiding to answer half the question. and yes, London was/is in dire straites. ????

the sultans of swing by dire straits,not straites

january 2020

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/01/21/brexit-costs-close-to-matching-britains-total-eu-contributions-infographic/#2620e17c1c55

5 minutes ago, Opl said:

january 2020

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/01/21/brexit-costs-close-to-matching-britains-total-eu-contributions-infographic/#2620e17c1c55

Who cares, it took us a long time to repay the USA back to rid ourselves of the German axis countries, freedom doesn't come cheap, but freedom it is....????

2 hours ago, transam said:

Who cares................?    

are those ostrich eggs?   it always strikes me that Brexiteers who abandoned their country do not give a <deleted> about the effect it will have on their brethren. no class

2 hours ago, kingdong said:

the sultans of swing by dire straits,not straites

my error - I was thinking different spelling for being in the <deleted>house. You're right - it's still dire straits. DS - one of the best live bands - Alchemy was an awesome concert and one of the great 'live' double vinyl albums. 

2 hours ago, Opl said:

january 2020

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/01/21/brexit-costs-close-to-matching-britains-total-eu-contributions-infographic/#2620e17c1c55

Fake news sources, surely, for anone who lives in an alternative reality (aka Brexit) ???

2 hours ago, transam said:

Who cares, it took us a long time to repay the USA back to rid ourselves of the German axis countries, freedom doesn't come cheap, but freedom it is....????

ironically, that reminds me of the lyrics 'Freedom's is just another word, for  nothing left to lose'.