Hat's off to Chiang Mai Immigration!

[FolkGuitar]

2 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

But a normal person cannot do that so to me that is special treatment and I am willing to bet that the IO is being handily compensated with a brown envelope.

 

Does it make sense that an Imm Officer would put themselves in criminal jeopardy by being so openly corrupt. Does it make sense that they would give special treatment for under-the-table payment while fellow Imm officers look on, knowing what is happening? 

Doesn't it make more sense that Immigration has instituted a policy across the board for Visa Agents who pay a regularly posted rate for service, receiving a receipt for business tax records.

[dingdongrb]

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

Does it make sense that an Imm Officer would put themselves in criminal jeopardy by being so openly corrupt. Does it make sense that they would give special treatment for under-the-table payment while fellow Imm officers look on, knowing what is happening? 

Doesn't it make more sense that Immigration has instituted a policy across the board for Visa Agents who pay a regularly posted rate for service, receiving a receipt for business tax records.

Ohhhhhh  ok..... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1174126-two-thai-immigration-officers-transferred-for-allegedly-taking-visa-extension-bribes/

[Falconator]

My experiences at Thai immigration offices have always been better than at the California DMV.

 

Hats off indeed! (No sarcasm intended)

[FolkGuitar]

7 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

Ohhhhhh  ok..... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1174126-two-thai-immigration-officers-transferred-for-allegedly-taking-visa-extension-bribes/

 

No one is saying that zero government employees are corrupt.

I'm saying that it's not so rampantly prevalent that they will have their own desk set up for it in plain view of the rest of the force as is the case in the Chiang Mai Immigration office!

That would be blatantly absurd.

"Attention! Attention! All those willing to pay me a bribe under the table please form a line at Window 3. Don't worry... No one will notice."

[Bill97]

52 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

No one is saying that zero government employees are corrupt.

I'm saying that it's not so rampantly prevalent that they will have their own desk set up for it in plain view of the rest of the force as is the case in the Chiang Mai Immigration office!

That would be blatantly absurd.

"Attention! Attention! All those willing to pay me a bribe under the table please form a line at Window 3. Don't worry... No one will notice."

How about all the IOs are aware and those who so choose participate in a division of pooled collections.  Like restaurant tip sharing.

 

 

There are many ways and No need for suggesting some of the more stupid ones.

[ChakaKhan]

Breaking news- Lost hat recovered at Cm immigration..please bring ID and 20 bt to lost n found...krup

[dingdongrb]

4 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

No one is saying that zero government employees are corrupt.

I'm saying that it's not so rampantly prevalent that they will have their own desk set up for it in plain view of the rest of the force as is the case in the Chiang Mai Immigration office!

That would be blatantly absurd.

"Attention! Attention! All those willing to pay me a bribe under the table please form a line at Window 3. Don't worry... No one will notice."

Please show me where I stated they were doing it in plain sight. (You can't because I didn't)

 

Just because only a few have been caught doesn't mean it isn't being continued unnoticed.

 

It's kind of like the many times I've been waved over while driving to be scammed out of 100 THB or so. The officer doesn't accept the money in plain sight, he reaches into the car out of sight to be passed the cash.

[FolkGuitar]

10 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

Please show me where I stated they were doing it in plain sight. (You can't because I didn't)

 

 

No one said 'you' did. 

Others have commented that visa agents bring in paperwork the day before, then next day come with their clients in to a 'special desk'  (must be a hidden one that all the other officers can't see) in the same bullpen as everyone else, only to have photo taken, and quickly leave. Because obviously, everyone is corrupt and no one has any honor. Not one honest person in the whole room, so no need to hide this activity.

Does that really make sense to you?

It doesn't to me.

I'm sure there are some dishonest Imm officers. I just don't believe they all are, and would allow something like that to continue in plain sight.

[fangless]

9 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Others have commented that visa agents bring in paperwork the day before, then next day come with their clients in to a 'special desk'  (must be a hidden one that all the other officers can't see) in the same bullpen as everyone else, only to have photo taken, and quickly leave.

 

I have used a visa company for my legitimate retirement extension (800,000 in the bank)for a number of years.  The cost is 7900 for extension and 4 x 90 days (I have recently done these on line myself so will try to negotiate a cheaper price next year.
I drop off passport and bank letter and sign numerous papers at their office (10 minutes).  I am then called one or two days later and given a time to meet a rep of the agent outside of Immigration (pre COVID).  Rep then escorts me into the main building and takes me through a door at the far right of the ground floor into a small office manned by an officer in uniform and a person in plain clothes.  There is a large hatch/opening in the wall connecting to the main office which means we are in full of everyone.  Sit down and get photo taken.  Sign a paper and receive passport with extension in it.  10 minutes at most at Immigration, 20 minutes in total.

I use the agent as I would rather spend my time in the bar than wasting it at Immigration.  From the IO’s point of view I am sure they prefer handling the paperwork from the agent as they know it will be 100% accurate and they can probably process 5 0r 6 agent customers in the time it takes them to do a standard walk in customer.

[FolkGuitar]

14 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

No one said 'you' did. 

Others have commented that visa agents bring in paperwork the day before, then next day come with their clients in to a 'special desk'  (must be a hidden one that all the other officers can't see) in the same bullpen as everyone else, only to have photo taken, and quickly leave. Because obviously, everyone is corrupt and no one has any honor. Not one honest person in the whole room, so no need to hide this activity.

Does that really make sense to you?

It doesn't to me.

I'm sure there are some dishonest Imm officers. I just don't believe they all are, and would allow something like that to continue in plain sight.

 

4 hours ago, fangless said:

 

I have used a visa company for my legitimate retirement extension .............
I drop off passport and bank letter and sign numerous papers at their office (10 minutes).  I am then called one or two days later and given a time to meet a rep of the agent outside of Immigration (pre COVID).  Rep then escorts me into the main building and takes me through a door at the far right of the ground floor into a small office manned by an officer in uniform and a person in plain clothes.  There is a large hatch/opening in the wall connecting to the main office which means we are in full of everyone.  Sit down and get photo taken.  Sign a paper and receive passport with extension in it.  10 minutes at most at Immigration

 

 

I do feel badly for those that feel the need to bash Thailand, or those that insist there is some sort of conspiracy creating mass corruption because visa agents get the job done quickly, but unless every member of the Immigration Police is corrupt, this just flies in the face of reality.

[Bill97]

2 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

unless every member of the Immigration Police is corrupt, this just flies in the face of reality.

No it is not necessary for every member of the Thai Immigration Police to be corrupt.  You have failed to consider numerous alternatives and instead have jumped to an unreasonable conclusion.  Really, give it some thought.

 

There are numerous ways agents can pay for expedited services without a requirement that all IPOs are corrupt.

 

The extremism and drama in your posts has destroyed credibility.

[deej]

 

30 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

 

The extremism and drama in your posts has destroyed credibility.

^^^    55555

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

There are numerous ways agents can pay for expedited services without a requirement that all IPOs are corrupt.

 

If you need to validate your conspiracy theory, I'm sure you will find a way.  Such is the nature of conspiracy theories.

[dingdongrb]

4 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

I do feel badly for those that feel the need to bash Thailand, or those that insist there is some sort of conspiracy creating mass corruption because visa agents get the job done quickly, but unless every member of the Immigration Police is corrupt, this just flies in the face of reality.

Mass corruption was never implied, however corruption to some degree was. Not bashing Thailand, just stating the facts based on experience. Like I said, I can not begin to count how many times I've had to slip an officer 100 THB or so for no reason other than being asked for the money when I was flagged over.

 

As for agents having all the proper paperwork and forms filled in whereas the common guy who doesn't use an agent doesn't and creates delays in the process, I call BS. I've been doing the process for over 10 years and nearly every time everything has been complete and in order. 

 

There is a reason why agents get processed quicker and are shown favoritism......... I say in some cases it's the brown envelope syndrome. The link I provided in a previous post supports that. BTW, why am I not allowed to submit my paperwork the day prior to wanting to get my extension granted? Hmmmmm...

 

NOTE: Yes, you did not directly state that I said all IMO were corrupt however with your replies directed to my posts you definitely are insinuating I said it. So, perhaps stop quoting and replying to my posts. 

[dingdongrb]

9 hours ago, fangless said:

I use the agent as I would rather spend my time in the bar than wasting it at Immigration.  

I personally don't hit the bars between 9 am and 4 pm as I prefer later in the evenings. Occasionally if I do have lunch out I might partake in a beer. Not sure, but Thailand may have an AA program. ????

[Bill97]

54 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

If you need to validate your conspiracy theory, I'm sure you will find a way.  Such is the nature of conspiracy theories.

I have no conspiracy theory in spite of your efforts to create one.

 

And a bit of payment for expedited service certainly does not necessitate some conspiracy theory.  Again you go off on drama.  It is your drama, I opt out.
 

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by Bill97

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

I have no conspiracy theory in spite of your efforts to create one.

 

And a bit of payment for expedited service certainly does not necessitate some conspiracy theory.  Again you go off on drama.  It is your drama, I opt out.
 

 

 

You are absolutely correct. "expedited service certainly does not necessitate some conspiracy theory. "

Nor does it mean that there is corruption afoot.

 

It's certainly much more plausible that the Immigration department has a standard fee schedule for expedited service, as I've said all along. There is expedited service for Residence Certificates, and has been for years. Not corruption. Expedited service.

[Mapguy]

5 hours ago, Bill97 said:

No it is not necessary for every member of the Thai Immigration Police to be corrupt.  You have failed to consider numerous alternatives and instead have jumped to an unreasonable conclusion.  Really, give it some thought.

 

There are numerous ways agents can pay for expedited services without a requirement that all IPOs are corrupt.

 

The extremism and drama in your posts has destroyed credibility.

OK, Bill97, give it some thought yourself!  Do something useful and list the "numerous ways agents can pay for expedited services...corrupt."  Don't be extreme.  Don't be dramatic.  Just back up YOUR assertions with facts.  Or, at the very least, detailed suggestions of method.

 

I am not saying you are right or wrong.  Just back up YOUR comments instead of just criticising others with a toss-off comment or two!

[BritManToo]

35 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

OK, Bill97, give it some thought yourself!  Do something useful and list the "numerous ways agents can pay for expedited services...corrupt."  Don't be extreme.  Don't be dramatic.  Just back up YOUR assertions with facts.  Or, at the very least, detailed suggestions of method.

 

I am not saying you are right or wrong.  Just back up YOUR comments instead of just criticising others with a toss-off comment or two!

I don't agree with Bill97, it's not individual officers but generally the entire department that is corrupt.

Which is not to say that every Immigration department is corrupt, but CM is certainly 100% corrupt. 

And the corruption begins with them having to buy their jobs.

 

I expect there are some rural Immigration offices where the staff are 100% honest, and nobody had to buy their jobs. But all the offices in busy tourist areas will have every staff member participating in corruption and accepting a share of the bribes.

Edited August 1, 2020 by BritManToo

[Bill97]

27 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

Do something useful and list the "numerous ways agents can pay for expedited services...corrupt."

To whom and for what purpose would that be useful?

 

 

 

[South]

Did 90 day report yesterday, all of 1 minute. Told me to report back 28th October. Visa expires 8th September ????????????

lol.

[dingdongrb]

2 hours ago, South said:

Did 90 day report yesterday, all of 1 minute. Told me to report back 28th October. Visa expires 8th September ????????????

lol.

Nothing abnormal about that as that's the usual process. When you do your 90 day they will then tell you when you're due for your next 90 day reporting regardless of your Visa (ext) expiration date.

 

I last did my 90 day in June and was told to report back in September even though my extension was going to expire in July.

[fangless]

13 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

Not sure, but Thailand may have an AA program

What has a motoring organisation (Automobile Association (AA)) got to do with a discussion about CM Immigration?

[fangless]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

CM is certainly 100% corrupt. 

And the corruption begins with them having to buy their jobs.

Where is your proof to back up that statement!

[FolkGuitar]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't agree with Bill97, it's not individual officers but generally the entire department that is corrupt.

Which is not to say that every Immigration department is corrupt, but CM is certainly 100% corrupt. 

And the corruption begins with them having to buy their jobs.

 

I expect there are some rural Immigration offices where the staff are 100% honest, and nobody had to buy their jobs. But all the offices in busy tourist areas will have every staff member participating in corruption and accepting a share of the bribes.

 

The abject absurdity of some posts just makes me squint...

[BritManToo]

43 minutes ago, fangless said:

Where is your proof to back up that statement!

My proof would be the ability to buy a retirement extension for 25k with no money in the bank and no income.

But I can't show you a receipt as they don't give them.

[dingdongrb]

56 minutes ago, fangless said:

What has a motoring organisation (Automobile Association (AA)) got to do with a discussion about CM Immigration?

That so called motoring organization is AAA....  because we all know America is the only one that counts.....  now had you said American Airlines.....  ????

[Peter Denis]

On 7/27/2020 at 2:22 AM, FolkGuitar said:

We were told that we need to photocopy every page in the bankbook that has transactions or updates. I only update that account book once a year, and never add or withdraw from it so there are only a few filled-in pages showing interest added or fees debited.

That's why IO now requires a 12-month bank-statement, because some banks consolidate the transactions when not regularly updating your bank-book, and as a result IO can not check whether you didn't slip under the 800K/400K tressholds.

Of course that 12-month bank-statement is redundant when you do regularly update your bank-book so that it shows all transactions, but the 12-month bank-statement has now become 'part of the rules' irrespective of whether you update the bank-book regularly or only do one transaction yearly. 

[fangless]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

but CM is certainly 100% corrupt. 

And the corruption begins with them having to buy their jobs.

 

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My proof would be the ability to buy a retirement extension for 25k with no money in the bank and no income.

But I can't show you a receipt as they don't give them.

Please answer my actual questions without  going off on a tangent. 

Where is your proof that "CM is certainly 100% corrupt." and that "the corruption begins with them having to buy their jobs".

I assume you are aware of the defamation and libel laws of Thailand!

[BritManToo]

Just now, fangless said:

I assume you are aware of the defamation and libel laws of Thailand!

Don't give a flying one.

Didn't take long for your new account to get on my ignore list.

Edited August 2, 2020 by BritManToo