High Speed rail link heading east: Phase Two plans in doubt amid investor concerns

[webfact]

High Speed rail link heading east: Phase Two plans in doubt amid investor concerns

 

Picture: Manager Online

 

While the high speed rail network linking three major airports is set to go ahead considerable doubt remains about the second phase of the plan. 

 

The first phase is part of the Eastern Economic corridor and will link Don Muang - Suvarnabhumi - U-Tapao. 

 

But the question is what happens in Phase Two.

 

That is the continuation of the line from U-Tapao to Trat on the Cambodian border. 

 

The plans are to have stations in Rayong - Klaeng - Chanthaburi and Trat.

 

The 190 kilometer route is anticipated to cost more than 101 billion baht. 

 

Speaking after a "market sounding" meeting of investors from the private sector, state railway engineer Sucheep Suksaeng stated that doubts remained for investors.

 

In particular they were concerned about the expropriation of land and the fact that the extension was not prioritized as part of the EEC plan. 

 

 EIA (environmental impact assessments) are also of concern to investors, said Manager.

 

A report is due out in August when details will be disseminated with other authorities and government ministries. 

 

Source: Manager Online

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2020-07-28

 

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[keith101]

What about the high speed train to Chiang Mai ? 

[petermik]

They need to set up a committee to investigate these "investor concerns" methinks.....

[Grumpy John]

What peeved me to a high degree is the closing of crossing gates so long before the dam train arrives at the crossing.  I don't know a lot about this mythical beast for travel to Chiang Mai but one would hope there is grade separation all the way.  A fully loaded passenger train travelling at 160kph ramming a stalled semi truck at a crossing is not a pretty picture. 

[PatOngo]

5 minutes ago, Grumpy John said:

A fully loaded passenger train travelling at 160kph ramming a stalled semi truck at a crossing is not a pretty picture.

Imagine what it would do to 4 or 5 on a motorcy!

[RichardColeman]

12 minutes ago, Grumpy John said:

What peeved me to a high degree is the closing of crossing gates so long before the dam train arrives at the crossing.

Sheesh, mate even I know that's to allow all the taxi motorbikes to do an S over the tracks whilst you hope and pray the train is still far away

[Anythingleft?]

Is it possible that the investors are noticing the public is becoming ever more scrutinizing of the larger projects, and the lack of deadlines met together with cost explosions and begging bowls are becoming harder to account for

 

Just possible that the easy money days and the rampant bleeding of the initial money pots is becoming slightly more difficult and challenging or troublesome to deal with without public interest and outcry...........

[mokwit]

Wasn't this first pahse really all about the right to develop the Makkasan railway yard area? Threw in the rail link to make it less obvious? Who needs phase two?  Seem to remember the Govt was touting this a couple of days after the coup.

Edited July 28, 2020 by mokwit

[johnc925]

1 hour ago, keith101 said:

What about the high speed train to Chiang Mai ? 

Probably not enough business to justify it... 

[Susco]

1 hour ago, Grumpy John said:

What peeved me to a high degree is the closing of crossing gates so long before the dam train arrives at the crossing.  I don't know a lot about this mythical beast for travel to Chiang Mai but one would hope there is grade separation all the way.  A fully loaded passenger train travelling at 160kph ramming a stalled semi truck at a crossing is not a pretty picture. 

let's hope that was meant as sarcasm and not ignorance

[hansnl]

1 hour ago, keith101 said:

What about the high speed train to Chiang Mai ? 

Forget it.

Like Thailand should forget high speed rail

It will never be profitable AND will spell doom for the existing railways.

Better would be if all that money was invested to upgrade the existing lines, make them suitable for higher speeds, buy talgo like rolling stock, plan more trains.

Metre gauge can easily have 150-160 km/h top speeds and with suitable track, signalling and rolling stock even higher speeds are possible.

Much cheaper as so-called high speed rail running on a top speed of 200km/u, which needs everything new, including very expensive signalling.

Investors know this very well, and also that the number of passengers for the high speed trains will never give profits while the HSL will also eat away the passengers from the existing rail.

The only reason the Chinese want the high speed trains is strategic.

And of course saddling Thailand up with huge debts is always handy for China.

[jojothai]

2 hours ago, keith101 said:

What about the high speed train to Chiang Mai ? 

That has been shelved. Too expensive.

It was going to be Japanese finance and trains.
 

[jojothai]

30 minutes ago, hansnl said:

Forget it.

Like Thailand should forget high speed rail

It will never be profitable AND will spell doom for the existing railways.

Better would be if all that money was invested to upgrade the existing lines, make them suitable for higher speeds, buy talgo like rolling stock, plan more trains.

The high speed rail is only a part of the current plans here.
 

Where have u been the last few years? They are already spending billions of baht upgrading many main lines to dual track.

There been a lot of disruption in provinces with all the current railway upgrades. Current work is obvious in many places.

Long term plan Plan from 2017

http://www.otp.go.th/uploads/tiny_uploads/PDF/2560-11/25601124-RaiwalDevOTP.pdf

 

The double-track upgrade between Nakhon Pathon to Hua Hin is about one third completed. Works on Hua Hin-Prachuap Khiri Khan and Prachuap Khiri Khan-Chumphon sections have progressed by 20 to 30%, 

About 100 Billion Baht more is earmarked for the rest of the line to the South,

To the North east Nakhon Ratchasima outside bangkok length of 132 kilometres. Work started in 2018 over 40% complete. 

To the North 80 Bn Baht on the Denchai to Chiang mai line first phase ongoing, second phase another 60Bn baht about to be approved.

[Keyser Soze666]

As long as phase 1 is done who cares about a train to Trat??

[jojothai]

2 hours ago, Grumpy John said:

What peeved me to a high degree is the closing of crossing gates so long before the dam train arrives at the crossing.  I don't know a lot about this mythical beast for travel to Chiang Mai but one would hope there is grade separation all the way.  A fully loaded passenger train travelling at 160kph ramming a stalled semi truck at a crossing is not a pretty picture. 

Please note that High speed rail lines do not have crossings over the tracks on the main lines, (outside of stations  and maintenance areas).

Lets just hope that the rail lines are built well enough that the trains don't end up careering off the rails onto the roads to add to the carnage there. ????

Edited July 28, 2020 by jojothai
clarification

[Bender Rodriguez]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

will link Don Muang - Suvarnabhumi

wait, is there a real link between the 2 airports or just dreaming ?

[jojothai]

2 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

wait, is there a real link between the 2 airports or just dreaming ?

They are calling it the three airport link. I trust its been translated correctly.

The line will use the existing city line into Bangkok with tunnel proposed to link it to Bang Sue and Don Mueang. 

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, Keyser Soze666 said:

As long as phase 1 is done who cares about a train to Trat??

I do. I live there! We don't even have a bus service to Pattaya, only minivans. And what about the freight traffic to Cambodia and Vietnam, not to mention passengers? Since the Asia superhighway turns back into a goat track as soon as you cross the Cambodian border, a HSL would go down a treat straight through to HCM city. Fat chance I must say.

[Keyser Soze666]

9 minutes ago, bradiston said:

I do. I live there! We don't even have a bus service to Pattaya, only minivans. And what about the freight traffic to Cambodia and Vietnam, not to mention passengers? Since the Asia superhighway turns back into a goat track as soon as you cross the Cambodian border, a HSL would go down a treat straight through to HCM city. Fat chance I must say.

Fair dues, you obviously are way more qualified than me on it. And yes, it's looking like it may not happen.

 

There isn't a bus from Pattaya - Trat?

[spidermike007]

Trat? Super high demand for that route. No wonder investors are wary. Only a 125 year payback. 

[Redline]

5 hours ago, Grumpy John said:

What peeved me to a high degree is the closing of crossing gates so long before the dam train arrives at the crossing.  I don't know a lot about this mythical beast for travel to Chiang Mai but one would hope there is grade separation all the way.  A fully loaded passenger train travelling at 160kph ramming a stalled semi truck at a crossing is not a pretty picture. 

I’ll wait a few years to ride a high speed train in Thailand. It may be bankrupt by then-or a tourist attraction?

[champers]

Also reported today that Morchit bus station will not be relocated after all. Some serious belt tightening going on.

 

[Airbagwill]

 

As 3 of the ministers involved in EEC have just resigned, I wouldn't hold your breath for any quick results yet.....without leadership many aspects are likely top crash and burn.

[CLW]

AFAIK this is not a high speed train aka Bullet train such as Shikansen, ICE or TGV. 

The design speed is 160km/h, almost double of the current average track speed.

That's why it's often named as High speed.

[CLW]

6 hours ago, jojothai said:

They are calling it the three airport link. I trust its been translated correctly.

The line will use the existing city line into Bangkok with tunnel proposed to link it to Bang Sue and Don Mueang. 

The extension to Don Mueang Airport is called red line and can be linked to the existing ARL via the new Bang Sue Grand station.

Another extension to the east will be between Suvarnabhumi and U-Tapao.

[jojothai]

2 hours ago, CLW said:

The extension to Don Mueang Airport is called red line and can be linked to the existing ARL via the new Bang Sue Grand station.

Another extension to the east will be between Suvarnabhumi and U-Tapao.

Yes the 3 airport link goes from Bang Sue to Don Mueang but its not designated to be on the red line.

It will be on high speed rail line.

There will also be the China High speed trains running through Bang Sue to Don Mueang for Nakhon Ratchasima / Nong Khai.

Bang Sue will be a huge interchange when this all comes to fruition.

Plan is for the station to have four floors, three above, and one below ground:[9]

Underground floor: Bang Sue MRT Station, on the MRT Blue Line station. Already operating.
Ground floor: Station concourse with ticketing and waiting areas. Air Conditioned.
Second floor: Train platforms with 12 tracks. Eight tracks will serve long-distance diesel trains (soon to be electrified). Four tracks will serve SRT Red Dark and Light Red Line commuter trains.
Third floor: High–speed railway platforms with 10 tracks. Four tracks will serve the Airport Rail Link and the Don Mueang–Suvarnabhumi–U-Tapao high-speed railway linking Don Mueang International Airport, Suvarnabhumi Airport and U-Tapao International Airport. Six tracks are reserved for future high-speed rail (HSR) connections to Nong Khai, Hua Hin (and Chiang Mai if that goes ahead later).

[Airbagwill]

2 minutes ago, jojothai said:

Yes the 3 airport link goes from Bang Sue to Don Mueang but its not designated to be on the red line.

It will be on high speed rail line.

There will also be the China High speed trains running through Bang Sue to Don Mueang for Nakhon Ratchasima / Nong Khai.

Bang Sue will be a huge interchange when this all comes to fruition.

Plan is for the station to have four floors, three above, and one below ground:[9]

Underground floor: Bang Sue MRT Station, on the MRT Blue Line station. Already operating.
Ground floor: Station concourse with ticketing and waiting areas. Air Conditioned.
Second floor: Train platforms with 12 tracks. Eight tracks will serve long-distance diesel trains (soon to be electrified). Four tracks will serve SRT Red Dark and Light Red Line commuter trains.
Third floor: High–speed railway platforms with 10 tracks. Four tracks will serve the Airport Rail Link and the Don Mueang–Suvarnabhumi–U-Tapao high-speed railway linking Don Mueang International Airport, Suvarnabhumi Airport and U-Tapao International Airport. Six tracks are reserved for future high-speed rail (HSR) connections to Nong Khai, Hua Hin (and Chiang Mai if that goes ahead later).

Yeah, but now it ain't gonna happen in any foreseeable future with no ministers - there's obviously been some big rift.

[jojothai]

23 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Yeah, but now it ain't gonna happen in any foreseeable future with no ministers - there's obviously been some big rift.

That is not the only problem on the 3 airport link and it will be delayed for a number of factors. All has gone quiet.

The Chinese high speed rail civil works are under construction, albeit contracts are delayed because of Covid 19.

There are no signs yet that it will become another hopewell, with no hope.

And the Bang Sue station building is already mostly built. Blue line running, other Rail lines and their infrastructure to be added.

Edited July 28, 2020 by jojothai
add info

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, jojothai said:

That is not the only problem on the 3 airport link and it will be delayed for a number of factors. All has gone quiet.

The Chinese high speed rail civil works are under construction, albeit contracts are delayed because of Covid 19.

There are no signs yet that it will become another hopewell, with no hope.

And the Bang Sue station building is already mostly built. Blue line running, other Rail lines and their infrastructure to be added.

never said it was the only problem - follow this story....https://www.reuters.com/article/thailand-economy/update-2-thai-finance-minister-resigns-amid-economic-team-shake-up-idUSL3N2EN1D0

 

[hotchilli]

18 hours ago, keith101 said:

What about the high speed train to Chiang Mai ? 

CM is off the radar...

a high speed network linking north>south east>west would make sense...

but when did sense ever prevail.