Land & Buildings Tax 2020

[LuciusCornelius]

I received notice from admin at my condo complex on Friday August 19th that I should contact Pattaya city hall and check if I have an outstanding tax bill.  I have received no bill, but they are advising co-owners to call and confirm that there is no land and buildings tax due.  It seems few people have actually been receiving the invoices. The note also mentioned that there is a 90% discount applicable to this tax if paid before the end of August 2020. In the letter, admin say before the end of September, but I have heard August from other sources. The tax payment date was postponed from march due to the epidemic. 

 

I am wondering if anyone has experience of paying this tax and the sums involved.  I own two condos, which I use as vacation homes several times a year.  I do not reside there permanently.  I know the tax is based off of the appraised value of the units, but I have no information on how much that is.  I purchased 4 years ago and the sales prices were 4.5 million and 2.3 million respectively. 

 

Since I am not in Thailand (overseas buyer) and don't speak Thai, my only option seems to be to retain the services of an accountant or lawyer to handle this.  I am sure this will probably run me far more than the value of the tax payable.  However, i don't see what option I have. I don't want to get a penalty.

 

If anyone has any experience of dealing with paying this tax, any information about the likely amounts involved or suggestions about suitable (reasonably priced) accountants or lawyers who can reliably take care of this then I would really appreciate it.

 

Many thanks.

 

Original message from admin. 

 

Dear:    Co-owners  

Title:     Land and building tax payment for the year 2020 

            Notification of land and building tax for the year 2020, if any co-owners have not yet received a letter requesting a tax payment, please contact to Pattaya city hall from today until September 30, 2020, to receive a 90% discount of the amount to be paid. If you do not pay within the specified time will be charged a late fee by Pattaya city 

            Documents used to contact at the Revenue and Benefits Department, Pattaya City, Floor 1, Building 1 

            1. Copy of house registration 

            2. Copy of National ID Card / or Passport 

            3. A copy of the title deed front-back 

            For more information, please contact the Revenue and Benefits Department, Pattaya City from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Mon.-Fri. Telephone number (038) 253148 -149, Mobile Line ID: 0839749584. 

            Or you can call to request the amount to be paid and transfer payments as details as follows 

            Account name:            Pattaya City 

            Bank:                           Krung Thai Bank, South Pattaya Branch 

            Account Number:        221-6-02322-1 

            Account Type:             Current Account 

 

  

[champers]

Might you be liable to back tax (probably not discounted)?

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, LuciusCornelius said:

I don't want to get a penalty.

Seems like you already got the penalty.  

[aussiexpat]

What's land & building tax on a condo? I heard a rumour they were introducing a new tax this year but obviously can't receive it if sent by mail as not there.

 

Great, not allowed into Thailand but bring in a new tax while away and charge me penalty for not paying on time ????

[LuciusCornelius]

I am uncertain about backtaxes for the past several years.  I know that there was an older tax law, which was seldom collected and whcih this law was designed to replace and improve upon.  There could be liability under whatever the old provisions were, though from what Admin tell me that is unlikely.

 

The 2020 bill took effect on Jan 1st this year and was supposed to see collections made in March.  This was postponed to August due to the virus.  There is now a 90% discount on sums payable if paid prior to August 31st.  I am certain of those facts.

 

I have a quote from a lawyer of 1500 baht per property do deal with the process ( not including paying the tax) so i will likely go with that next week and report the outcome here.  From what I have have read on other forums the actual tax is 0.02% of property appraised value.  This is then further reduced by 90% due to the discount.  

 

I know someone in Bangkok who paid 240 baht total for a 2 bedroom in the city center. It is also a second property.  That unit easily exceeds the value of my two combined.  

[kinyara]

Yes you are looking at a few hundred baht for the actual payment based on what I was quoted and others I know have paid. I tried to settle it back when I got the original letter but they told me to come back in August. Something I need to settle this week. 

 

I would imagine a lot of owners only here for the high season will have outstandings given the timings and situation. May work out cheaper for you to sort it out when you can eventually get back in the country. 

[aussiexpat]

2 hours ago, LuciusCornelius said:

I have a quote from a lawyer of 1500 baht per property do deal with the process ( not including paying the tax) so i will likely go with that next week and report the outcome here.  From what I have have read on other forums the actual tax is 0.02% of property appraised value.  This is then further reduced by 90% due to the discount.  

Why would you pay a lawyer 1500 baht per condo when tax cost for your 2 condo would be only 136 baht after discount applied?

 

Even if you missed the discount date total tax would still only be 1360 baht for 2 condo's, much less than the lawyer fees.

 

Condo 1, 4.5 m baht value X 0.02% = 900 baht, less 90% discount = 90 baht tax payable

 

Condo 2, 2.3 m baht value X 0.02% = 460 baht, less 90% discount = 46 baht tax payable

 

[Rimmer]

Wife paid the tax on the property last week, our payments in past years are all up to date so no previous tax to pay, she was also given a substantial discount on this current payment.

 

Friend less than half a mile away had never registered so of course never paid the yearly tax, he had to pay B57,000 in back tax and fines to when the house was built around ten years ago.

[LuciusCornelius]

8 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

Why would you pay a lawyer 1500 baht per condo when tax cost for your 2 condo would be only 136 baht after discount applied?

 

Even if you missed the discount date total tax would still only be 1360 baht for 2 condo's, much less than the lawyer fees.

 

Condo 1, 4.5 m baht value X 0.02% = 900 baht, less 90% discount = 90 baht tax payable

 

Condo 2, 2.3 m baht value X 0.02% = 460 baht, less 90% discount = 46 baht tax payable

 

Mainly because I want it off my mind.  It's not a great deal of money and I always try to conform to whatever mandated rules there are in terms of dealing with property overseas.  

I was already aware that being fined may well work out cheaper than paying up now.  However, I am not certain of that.  I do not know what the appraised value is.  In fact it is likely even less than the sales price, but I just don't know. 

 

I also want to establish liability for any backtaxes since the possibility was mentioned above.  

[LuciusCornelius]

7 hours ago, Rimmer said:

 

Friend less than half a mile away had never registered so of course never paid the yearly tax, he had to pay B57,000 in back tax and fines to when the house was built around ten years ago.

I have held the condos for only 4 years and they are in individual rather than Thai company names.  Houses are often owned in a corporate structure and subject to other tax rates I believe.  I sure hope this is the case anyway and i will not be facing a bill comparable to his.

 

[Beardog]

Wow we must be lucky in Bang Saray we never paid any tax or penalty just when we sell 3rd house so far & only paid what the going rate for turning a house tax. They threatened to charge tax for  land without a house a couple years back but nothing ever became of it. No onje around our are or the 3 areas here has ever had to pay penalties.They don't even collect the 25 baht a month for garbage removal. We just go in every 2 years & pay the bin.

[LuciusCornelius]

As an update, I received 3 further quotes from lawyers and accountants.

 

I went with the lowest priced one 1000 Baht per unit = 2000 Baht for me.  This accountant was recommended by a real estate brokerage. 

 

I also had two others at 6000 Baht and 10000 baht.  There were both from lawyers and the price is for two units.

 

I figure at 2K baht, I get peace of mind and the difference between the tax + penalty and what I will pay for the service (with 90% discount for early payment) has narrowed to acceptable levels.  I will pay a tad more for putting it to bed. 

 

[Guderian]

I went to Pattaya City Hall this afternoon to pay the annual property tax. What a joke, it was packed out with people. I got number 66 and they called number 25 soon afterwards. Ten minutes later they were still on number 25, this was going nowhere fast and would soon impinge upon my beer drinking time, which is not acceptable, so I left. I could just forget about it until next year and pay the 200 Baht fine, or get an agent to do it for me. The GF up in Laem Chabang is always keen to make a few Baht on the side and she's cheaper than an agent, lol, so she's going to come down and pay it for me on Wednesday. I thought the tax office in Jomtien was slow, but City Hall makes it look like a model of efficiency. Plus at least the tax people speak some English and have heard or air conditioning, developments that have clearly passed Pattaya City Hall by.

[newnative]

3 minutes ago, Guderian said:

I went to Pattaya City Hall this afternoon to pay the annual property tax. What a joke, it was packed out with people. I got number 66 and they called number 25 soon afterwards. Ten minutes later they were still on number 25, this was going nowhere fast and would soon impinge upon my beer drinking time, which is not acceptable, so I left. I could just forget about it until next year and pay the 200 Baht fine, or get an agent to do it for me. The GF up in Laem Chabang is always keen to make a few Baht on the side and she's cheaper than an agent, lol, so she's going to come down and pay it for me on Wednesday. I thought the tax office in Jomtien was slow, but City Hall makes it look like a model of efficiency. Plus at least the tax people speak some English and have heard or air conditioning, developments that have clearly passed Pattaya City Hall by.

    We paid ours this morning and you are right.  It was a disorganized joke.  Pattaya's City Hall must be the worst in the nation for a city of its size.  What a total disgrace.  Ugly, a very poorly designed maze to negotiate, dirty, run down, messy, long staircases, some with no hand rails, everywhere you look but no elevators or escalators in sight, and let's not even talk about the horrible, way too small parking garage.  But, despite ALL that, at least for frigging sake AIR CONDITION the hot mess!

[LuciusCornelius]

Yes, city hall was a zoo but the accountant battled through it and got the tax paid.  Oddly, 198 baht total in tax, which at least was expressed to me as 99 baht per unit.  Obviously, I would anticipate different tax levels for each of them as one is a 1 bedroom and the other a 2 bedroom.  They certainly have different purchase prices.  Anyway, receipts have been obtained and I will get scans of those tomorrow.  I am interested to learn what the appraisal values for the units are.

 

No backtaxes were demanded or even mentioned.

 

A weight off my mind.  

 

 

[Banana7]

15 hours ago, LuciusCornelius said:

Yes, city hall was a zoo but the accountant battled through it and got the tax paid.  Oddly, 198 baht total in tax, which at least was expressed to me as 99 baht per unit.  Obviously, I would anticipate different tax levels for each of them as one is a 1 bedroom and the other a 2 bedroom.  They certainly have different purchase prices.  Anyway, receipts have been obtained and I will get scans of those tomorrow.  I am interested to learn what the appraisal values for the units are.

 

No backtaxes were demanded or even mentioned.

 

A weight off my mind.  

 

 

What time did you go and how long did you have to wait?

 

[topt]

On 8/23/2020 at 9:43 AM, Rimmer said:

Wife paid the tax on the property last week, our payments in past years are all up to date so no previous tax to pay, she was also given a substantial discount on this current payment.

 

Friend less than half a mile away had never registered so of course never paid the yearly tax, he had to pay B57,000 in back tax and fines to when the house was built around ten years ago.

Sorry but just to confirm is this the same tax described here - https://www.bdo.co.th/en-gb/insights/tax-updates/new-property-tax-law-in-thailand

Which gives exemptions -

Quote

• A tax exempt threshold of Baht 50 million shall apply to land and buildings owned by individuals that are used as their place of residence, if their names appear in the house registration book on 1 January of the tax year
• A tax exempt threshold of Baht 10 million shall apply to buildings owned by individuals, where they are not the land owner, that are used as their place of residence, if their names appear in the house registration bookon 1 January of the tax year. By definition this would include a condominium unit.

So is everybody who is having to pay having either a company ownership or a foreigner owned condo as their name cannot appear in the house registration booklet - which if true seems a "little" unfair? 

[LuciusCornelius]

7 hours ago, Banana7 said:

What time did you go and how long did you have to wait?

 

I did not go - the accountant did.  Sometime after 3pm I think.  I got the notice to transfer the funds about 4pm. I am assuming that the accountant deals often with these departments and has contacts there.  Probably she was able to jump the line.  That is certainly how it works where I live in Asia (China) and I suspect in Thailand too.  Even if I was In Pattaya, I would still pay the 2000 Baht to avoid dealing with the hassle of city hall. 

 

Actually, the information given on the prior page about my tax liability was incorrect.  I only paid 99 Baht total in tax for both units. This is because of the 90% discount.  I should have paid 988.48 Baht - and I'm sure I will in March 2021, when this tax hits again.

My smaller apartment paid less (35 Baht) and the larger one more (64 Baht) as I expected.  Also the appraised values, which this tax is based off, were about 25% below the sales price. 

The tax rate levied was 0.02% of appraised values. These are both holiday homes and my name is not in the residence book.   

 

I have attached the tax due before discount calculation, which was part of the package of receipts I got. This is what I will have to pay next year doubtless.  

 

Another thing is that the surface area of the units is slightly lower than actual measurements.  My 2 bed is 63M2 and the one bedroom is 34M2.  The accountant said not to worry about it.  It's usual. 

 

[LuciusCornelius]

2 hours ago, topt said:

Sorry but just to confirm is this the same tax described here - https://www.bdo.co.th/en-gb/insights/tax-updates/new-property-tax-law-in-thailand

Which gives exemptions -

So is everybody who is having to pay having either a company ownership or a foreigner owned condo as their name cannot appear in the house registration booklet - which if true seems a "little" unfair? 

Yes, it is that tax.  The Land and Buildings tax.

 

I have been told that foreigners can obtain a yellow house registration book if they have qualifying visa status.  They can exchange the blue registration book for the yellow one and then be entitled to the tax exemption for the primary residence.  Obviously, people with investment properties or holiday homes that don't live there or don't even live in Thailand cannot.  This tax would also apply to Thais with second homes simply because they can only have one place registered as their primary residence.  It is possible that Thai couples or families could obviate this by buying properties in the name of a spouse or a family member and getting them to register in the house book.  However, I am not sure what (if any) impact that could have on that person's ability to then access public services like education in the location where they actually live. 

[Banana7]

19 hours ago, LuciusCornelius said:

Yes, it is that tax.  The Land and Buildings tax.

 

I have been told that foreigners can obtain a yellow house registration book if they have qualifying visa status.  They can exchange the blue registration book for the yellow one and then be entitled to the tax exemption for the primary residence.  Obviously, people with investment properties or holiday homes that don't live there or don't even live in Thailand cannot.  This tax would also apply to Thais with second homes simply because they can only have one place registered as their primary residence.  It is possible that Thai couples or families could obviate this by buying properties in the name of a spouse or a family member and getting them to register in the house book.  However, I am not sure what (if any) impact that could have on that person's ability to then access public services like education in the location where they actually live. 

Which visas are qualifying visas for the yellow book? Is a retirement "O" a qualify visa? Where can the blue book be exchanged for the yellow book?

 

[LuciusCornelius]

3 hours ago, Banana7 said:

Which visas are qualifying visas for the yellow book? Is a retirement "O" a qualify visa? Where can the blue book be exchanged for the yellow book?

 

I am no expert on Thailand.  However, I think the second post in the thread pasted below should help to answer your questions.

 

I would not call the conversion process hassle free.  More like laborious and costly. However, there is one.

 

 

[Spellforce]

For more information, please contact the Revenue and Benefits Department, Pattaya City from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Mon.-Fri. Telephone number (038) 253148 -149, Mobile Line ID: 0839749584. 

            Or you can call to request the amount to be paid and transfer payments as details as follows 

            Account name:            Pattaya City 

            Bank:                           Krung Thai Bank, South Pattaya Branch 

            Account Number:        221-6-02322-1 

            Account Type:             Current Account

That Line ID doesn't work anymore.

Is it possible to do a bank transfer today (with that 90% discount + no penalty) and come back in september to the amphur when there will be less people ?

[LuciusCornelius]

25 minutes ago, Spellforce said:

 

 

That Line ID doesn't work anymore.

Is it possible to do a bank transfer today (with that 90% discount + no penalty) and come back in september to the amphur when there will be less people ?

No. The Line ID and telephone number are next to useless.  The accountant I hired tried calling and messaging in the morning.  Radio silence.  In the afternoon when there was still no reply, she just went to city hall to deal with it.  Right now, someone physically going there seems to be the only solution.

 

How can you make the payment without first knowing the amount due?  Do you know the appraised value of your property according to City hall's records?  I sure didn't.  I would not recommend doing a transfer of a ballpark figure, because there is a fair chance it will not get associated with your property tax payment.  They want to see copies of the deeds (both sides), an ID, the sales contract from the land office and the household registration book (blue / yellow book).

 

 

[kinyara]

My experience today. 

 

Based on the reports of big queues on here I decided to go first thing this morning. I parked my car across the road in Tesco's which seems much easier than the City Hall arrangement. Walked through the doors at 8.30 am and already all the seats leading to the office on the right looked fully occupied. I walked up to the lady who seemed to be the initial contact point and she took me straight through to a lady at the back of the internal office who took my assessment form, entered some info on the computer and helpfully explained this years was baased on internal condo space, next year would include balcony as well. Finished she printed a form and  took me to the ladies at the front who gave me a number, which was 19 and sat me at the front of a row of chairs beside the ladies processing the payment. Served straight away, paid my 132 baht and handed receipt and told to come back again in April. 

 

In and out in 18 minutes ????????. No idea what everyone else was queueing for. 

[Banana7]

On 8/26/2020 at 5:44 PM, LuciusCornelius said:

No. The Line ID and telephone number are next to useless.  The accountant I hired tried calling and messaging in the morning.  Radio silence.  In the afternoon when there was still no reply, she just went to city hall to deal with it.  Right now, someone physically going there seems to be the only solution.

 

How can you make the payment without first knowing the amount due?  Do you know the appraised value of your property according to City hall's records?  I sure didn't.  I would not recommend doing a transfer of a ballpark figure, because there is a fair chance it will not get associated with your property tax payment.  They want to see copies of the deeds (both sides), an ID, the sales contract from the land office and the household registration book (blue / yellow book).

 

 

I got a response from the LINE ID. My initial message identified my condo address precisely, my full name, and asked for the property tax amount. It took about 3 or 4 days for the initial response. Taxes: 40.35 baht.

 

 

[LuciusCornelius]

1 hour ago, Banana7 said:

I got a response from the LINE ID. My initial message identified my condo address precisely, my full name, and asked for the property tax amount. It took about 3 or 4 days for the initial response. Taxes: 40.35 baht.

 

 

Clearly the Line method is viable then.  I certainly would have lacked the patience for that.  The accountant said they might never get back to us.  I will try using Line in March for the next payment.  If not I will go back to the accountant. Line is blocked in China, where I am based, which means messing around with a VPN on my phone to get it working.  Nothing is easy. 

[BangkokAlan]

I paid my property tax in Bangkok yesterday it is 0.2% of the governments assessed value which is about 60% of market value. There is a 90% reduction on the assessment for this year only. We have an agent paying today for our Pattaya units. I have total 6 units in Thailand and not received one letter for any of my unit.

 

If you get an agent to do this as you are out of Thailand just provide photocopy of Title deed, blue book even though it does not record Foreign names and a copy of your passport.

 

At the office they will input the details from the deed such as size and then give you the assessment of value and tax to be paid on a printout. The tax shown is then reduced by 90% when you actually pay.

 

For those that have received the letters showing tax due they can pay at KTB bank no need to attend your local tax office.

 

 

[thaitero]

For Pattaya you do not need any photocopies, agents etc,,

Just use line provided, have some patience ( for me 2-3 days replydelay for every chatcomment)

Tell your name and what you own you will receive amounts to pay, what bank to pay. You receive also 5 page long thailanguage pdf- document (i do not know what is in there besides taxamount owed). After payment send receipt of your payment using line app and that is it,,

[dabhand]

3 hours ago, BangkokAlan said:

I paid my property tax in Bangkok yesterday it is 0.2% of the governments assessed value which is about 60% of market value. There is a 90% reduction on the assessment for this year only. We have an agent paying today for our Pattaya units. I have total 6 units in Thailand and not received one letter for any of my unit.

 

If you get an agent to do this as you are out of Thailand just provide photocopy of Title deed, blue book even though it does not record Foreign names and a copy of your passport.

 

At the office they will input the details from the deed such as size and then give you the assessment of value and tax to be paid on a printout. The tax shown is then reduced by 90% when you actually pay.

 

For those that have received the letters showing tax due they can pay at KTB bank no need to attend your local tax office.

 

 

Can you confirm if the tax is indeed 0.2% of assessed value, as you mention, or 0.02% as indicated in an earlier post (no.18).

[BangkokAlan]

Apologies its 0.02%