Navy: Country Needs Submarine

[SidJames]

16 hours ago, johng said:

They won't let any dirty foreigners on there though  without written permission from the chief admiral

just in case we steal the trade marked Thai military secrets !!! ????

I went there one year & had my baby daughter in my arms & was queuing to get on when security pulled me out of the line & told my missus that farangs were not allowed.

I went & bought a chilled bottle of water & waited in the shade until 20/30 mins later the missus reappeared hot, bothered & very <deleted> off.

She told me that it was completely empty on the inside & just a shell but she couldn't get out of the queue once she's boarded so had to wait for it to snake it's way along the internal walkways & there was no a/c or fans so it was a proper sweatbox.

I was enjoying my water & the sea breeze.

[transam]

7 minutes ago, SidJames said:

I went there one year & had my baby daughter in my arms & was queuing to get on when security pulled me out of the line & told my missus that farangs were not allowed.

I went & bought a chilled bottle of water & waited in the shade until 20/30 mins later the missus reappeared hot, bothered & very <deleted> off.

She told me that it was completely empty on the inside & just a shell but she couldn't get out of the queue once she's boarded so had to wait for it to snake it's way along the internal walkways & there was no a/c or fans so it was a proper sweatbox.

I was enjoying my water & the sea breeze.

I had the same years back, seems the Thai navy didn't know the ship was an old USA one that many farangs had been on in its previous life, unless of course they had installed secret stuff.....????

[Millcx]

6 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

Does anybody have some knowledge the Thai naval doctrine? The Gulf is large, but reportedly has an average depth of 68 meters and the deepest parts are 100 meters. May be smaller 300-500 ton subs will be more suitable. Or fast patrol boats can give sound coastal protection. There is probably some kind of inter-service rivalry between the Army and the Navy, and the boat boys want sexy toys too.

Buy 2 get 1 free .. Supermarket sweep

any enemy will see the subs when fully submerged with not enough depth in the gulf 

I understand the use of fast impact craft but submarines nooooo 

Nice handshake for someone that’s for sure

its the last thing Thailand needs 

[robertson468]

Sadly they are like a bunch of wannabe children who must have, must have more toys.  They don't care less about the fact that a large part of the population is unable to feed itself and the funds would be much better placed providing food etc for their citizens.  The hi-sos in Thailand need a damn good shaking to wake them up to reality.

[johng]

I first went in 2006 they would not let me on ( said no cameras but we arrived on motorbikes so no where to hide the camera)

luckily there was another ship docked there  MV Doulos  no problems with cameras.

Quote

MV Doulos Phos is a retired cruise ship that held the record of being the world's oldest active ocean-faring passenger ship, serving from 1914 until December 2009

so we looked at that instead.

 

 a couple of year later we went back without camera this time only to be "shood" away  again this time not being a Thai citizen, my wife, family and friend went on board I sat outside  with nary a beer to quench the thirst. ???? 

[Expat Tom]

Thailand buy submarines is perhaps the STUPIDEST thing that I have ever heard.

1) Thailand has no naval power threatening it. Laso? Cambodia? Malaysia? Vietnam? 

2) The Gulf of Siam is too shallow for submarines to effectively operate. They can easily be eliminated in such shallow water.

3) Thailand has no real blue water navy and that is where Subs are most useful.

4) Any real conflict those subs have "ZERO" survivability chance. If Thailand sided with China, the "Quad Alliance" ( Japan. Australia, India and the USA) would take those subs out in hours. If Thailand sided with the "Quad" they would be protested as they have been for years by the USA. 

5) Those subs are a HUGE waste of money during the country's economic downturn.

6) This is EXACTLY what a country gets when it allows the military to rule. "Little Boys in Uniforms Buying Toys while people are suffering". 

 

SHAME ON YOU !!!!! The people proposing the purchase of these "Toys" do not care about Thailand. 

[Flying Saucage]

5 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Sounds like they wish to be more aggressive militarily.  Are they aligning themselves with China?   

Defintely yes. Together with Cambodia. China knows how to buy good friends.

[hotchilli]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

The Royal Thai Navy has defended its Bt22.5-billion deal to purchase two more submarines following public complaints that the money should be spent on relieving people’s suffering amid the Covid-19 crisis.

This shows the zero compassion the government has for peoples plights at the moment...

4 pro government ministers votes yes to buy

4 opposition government ministers vote no to buy

1 decides which way to swing it... no surprises there.

This shows the divide within the the house as it does on the street.
So is it any wonder when the government says to the student protesters we will listen to your complaints they say "what for" it won't get any changes made?

[Srikcir]

"Not an extra budget"

In the five years that that Prayut Junta was in control, it funded trillion baht for the military, all properly authorized by Prayut's appointed NLA. 

Military purchases were typically made with loans from foreign suppliers, ie., China, over 5-10 years. As such the entire purchase is not funded by a single budget.

So yes, not an extra budget.

But what is budgeted EVERY year is the principle and interest on the loan. So in effect a continuous budget over multiple years.

[John Drake]

18 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

VAdm Thaloengsak Sirisawat, director-general of the Navy Operations Department, said the country needed enough resources to protect its sovereignty and maritime routes in the event of a maritime territorial dispute or clash in the South China Sea.

The only country likely to challenge Thai sovereignty in the Gulf is the one Thailand is buying the submarines from.

[owl sees all]

2 hours ago, Davedub said:

This is a reflection of a greater global issue - that of little boy playground egotism played out with the wealth generated by hard working people - wealth that should be deployed combatting global problems that every country shares like the pandemic, sustainability, starvation and the lack of universal healthcare and education. The list goes on.

 

It makes me want to shout at all the global leaders at once to grow the f#ck up, stop it their pathetic squabbling over imaginary lines drawn on maps and the resources contained within and just get to work sorting this sh!tshow out - but of course, even if that were possible, they'd all just point at each other claiming "he started it". 

 

Sigh...

Whilst I agree with the general points.

 

A countries wealth has different facets. Fundamentally, it is the natural resources of the land and how it is utilised. There is the process of turning natural resources into worthwhile goods. Then, and it is more and more evident, that 'wealth' is simply being magicked into being by the banking system. This 'wealth' has no actual substance. The US has created that much money, that no-one needs ever to pay taxes again. In fact so much money that every US citizen could join the military.

 

These submarines are being bought with this magic money. And being paid for with people's debt.

 

The day might come when debt is such an issue that WW3 is inevitable.

Edited August 25, 2020 by owl sees all

[Flying Saucage]

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Yeah ok... the sub will "pop-up" in the south China sea to tell China to sod-off, like that's gonna happen?

Oh, I believe it is quite possible that they pop-up in the South China sea!!! But to tell all others there to sod-off, side by side with the Chinese navy.

 

China 'invested' in the Thai government, and told them to buy the subs. It's a win-win-situation for China and for the Thai generals and admirals.

 

And later in the South China sea, China will order Thailand to side with China, in order to improve the global image of China. It sounds much better if an 'international coalition led by China' fends off an aggressive invasion from Chinese sovereign territory in the South China sea, innit?

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Flying Saucage

[rudi49jr]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Navy defends Bt22.5bn deal for submarines as ‘good value

I see a lot of things in shops that are ‘good value’. But that doesn’t necessarily mean I have to buy them. What a bogus argument. 

[John1012]

6 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

Does anybody have some knowledge the Thai naval doctrine? The Gulf is large, but reportedly has an average depth of 68 meters and the deepest parts are 100 meters. May be smaller 300-500 ton subs will be more suitable. Or fast patrol boats can give sound coastal protection. There is probably some kind of inter-service rivalry between the Army and the Navy, and the boat boys want sexy toys too.

What is the purpose of the submarine?

They provide intelligence and underwater protection for surface ships, and are able to detect and lay mines more efficiently than any other navy vessel. Submarines provide a means to land special forces in hostile regions and, if fitted with suitable weapons, are able to strike land targets.

 

Unless Thailand enters into international aggressive hostilities, deep sea submarines are pretty useless. They would not last 5 minutes in the Thai coastal waters against any half decent opponent, so would be of little use in protecting Thailand.  They will be an even bigger white elephant than the empty air craft carrier as the supporting infrastructure and operating costs for these items would make  a huge dent in the military budget.

[Flying Saucage]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Especially in the light that Thailand ...politically aligned with China's territorial claims in the Sea that were rejected by the International Court.  

 

exactly!

[Flying Saucage]

1 hour ago, Isaan sailor said:

Finally, the Chinese will chose a remote rock reef in the Gulf, and dump enough fill onto it for a 4000m runway.  Thai submarines could deter this, and save the Gulf!

It will be more that the Thai subs will protect and support the Chinese when they do this. Don't forget who are the best buddies of the Thai generals

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Flying Saucage

[johng]

Apparently Thailand had 4 submarines bought from Japan in 1937 for 800,000 baht each  they lasted 14 years before parts became unavailable.

I think I read somewhere that the navy have kept a "practising" submarine division ever since !!!

 

[PatOngo]

6 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

Does anybody have some knowledge the Thai naval doctrine? The Gulf is large, but reportedly has an average depth of 68 meters and the deepest parts are 100 meters. May be smaller 300-500 ton subs will be more suitable. Or fast patrol boats can give sound coastal protection. There is probably some kind of inter-service rivalry between the Army and the Navy, and the boat boys want sexy toys too.

Security is irrelevant, it's all about healthy retirement funds for the snouts involved!

[Happyman567]

18 hours ago, colinneil said:

 

That is the BIGGEST load of codswallop i have read in a long time.

Who/ what are they going to use a submarine against?

Nobody can answer that because nobody knows.

Another interesting thing is Col they have no crew to Man them They need to be trained Oh well they will look

good sitting beside that aircraft carrier that does nothing 

[Flying Saucage]

17 minutes ago, John Drake said:

The only country likely to challenge Thai sovereignty in the Gulf is the one Thailand is buying the submarines from.

To say it more precisely: It's the current Thai government which challenges Thailands sovereignty

[sawadee1947]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

beneficial for the economy

Very true. 

You can use subs for fishing, isn't it? ????

[transam]

2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Very true. 

You can use subs for fishing, isn't it? ????

"Isn't it", what....?

[Flying Saucage]

7 minutes ago, Happyman567 said:

Another interesting thing is Col they have no crew to Man them They need to be trained Oh well they will look

good sitting beside that aircraft carrier that does nothing 

I remember in March during the Covid outbreak in Wuhan, it was Thai navy personnel which was the first to be evacuated from China back to Thailand, which was there to be trained for the subs. Long before they did any effort to evacute other Thais.

 

They train their staff already.

[wazzupnow]

9 hours ago, Phuketshrew said:

What? Yep I am sure that countries like the US and China will be quaking in their boots at the thought of having to take on Thai submariners.

china mede them so china knows how to sink them too

[DJ54]

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang said on Monday that China would prioritise countries along the Mekong River to receive a Covid-19 vaccine when trials are completed and the country makes it available.

 

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang on Monday said from this year on, China will share hydrological data and information in the Mekong-Lancang sub-region.

 

and the March goes on...

 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang said on Monday that China would prioritise countries along the Mekong River to receive a Covid-19 vaccine when trials are completed and the country makes it available.

 

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang on Monday said from this year on, China will share hydrological data and information in the Mekong-Lancang sub-region.

 

and the March goes on...

 

...........and say sorry for causing so much grief to LOS and the rest of the world......????

[lensta]

If the Thai people lay down and accept the bull <deleted> this government is feeding them, then they truely have the government they deserve. Time to stand up Thailand.

[NoComment]

The Chinese must be laughing at The Kingdom.

The Chinese have destroyed the tourism industry, left 000's homeless, 000's living on handouts and 000's not sure what is happening for the future.

Nevermind all of that submarines and the Chinese are more important.

Some one at the top should consider the people of The Kingdom.

The Thai people should be considered and cared for before anything else.

[PETERTHEEATER]

5 hours ago, Dukeleto said:

Under the table shenanigans is the only logical and plausible reason for buying Ing these rust buckets.

Rust buckets! Rust buckets! Are you, Sir, referring to the oxide of Iron surface finish included in the specification for these magnificent vessels from far Cathay?

[transam]

6 minutes ago, lensta said:

If the Thai people lay down and accept the bull <deleted> this government is feeding them, then they truely have the government they deserve. Time to stand up Thailand.

Thought they were trying, but stopped....????