France's Le Drian blames Britain's 'attitude' for Brexit talks impasse

[OneMoreFarang]

10 hours ago, Loiner said:

Sure.  Looks fun. Wish we had enough warm weather for the girls to get into bikinis. 

 

You sound like you feel superior to these people or something. GUess what, your vote is worth no more than theirs, and guess who will return Donald for a second term? You can make another snide post, with another video after that if you want. 

Luckily I am no American and I have no intention to ever visit that strange place.

Obviously I feel superior. How is it possible not to feel superior to people who vote or would vote for Trump?

Edited September 1, 2020 by Scott

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Luckily I am no American and I have no intention to ever visit that strange place.

Obviously I feel superior. How is it possible not to feel superior to people who vote or would vote for Trump?

Well you threw me there with your redneck video analogy. Whatever made you think of that as typical UK proper folk? You must be so superior that you have never actually met any. Where on earth (or not) do you dwell?

If you are not American, never been to or going to that strange place, what's your preoccupation with its people and president, or relevance to a Brexit thread?

[Loiner]

7 hours ago, RayC said:

So your defence of this debacle is that you trust what the government is saying which amounts to: "Move along now. Nothing to see here. Everything's good"? 

 

I am not as trusting or seemingly gullible as you. I'd like the government which represents me to be able to give an outline its plans for its term in office. This one hasn't and seemingly can't.

 

And that's it? We leave the EU and then what? Puff ... magically everything falls into place? What's the backup plan in the unlikely event that that doesn't work? We all close our eyes and wish really, really, really hard that the UK becomes a happier, healthier and wealthier place?

Whether I trust what they are saying or not is not relevant. Generally, I don't believe most things these days, especially anything on TVF. What I definitely don't believe are your assertions that the UK govt was woefully unprepared for negotiations or did not have any semblance of a plan. They not would be telling you, or anybody else, if they had.

 

I'm already happier since 31st January and getting happier by the day.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Loiner

[OneMoreFarang]

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

If you are not American, never been to or going to that strange place, what's your preoccupation with its people and president, or relevance to a Brexit thread?

Do you follow world politics? Then you should know that any American president has a lot of influence around the word. And lets not forget that many think they are the leader of the world.

By now even Trump should have noticed that the word does not want his leadership. But obviously that does not prevent his supporters to try to reelect him. Because they obviously look only at American and what they somehow think MAGA.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

What I definitely don't believe are your assertions that the UK govt was woefully unprepared for negotiations or did not have any semblance of a plan.

If there is a plan can you please describe it in a few words. Because "taking back control" is not a plan.

All evidence shows that the UK has no realistic plan. They might have a "plan" like "we want it all, we want it now". But by now they should realize that that won't happen. And it won't happen with the EU, USA, China, etc..

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

your lot

?

[Loiner]

10 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

A negotiation obviously is with someone external; you don’t need to negotiate with yourself. The EU is an external factor to the UK and vice versa. So if the UK blames the EU for not getting a trade deal, then the UK is admitting that it did a bad job in planning (or a bad decision in the first place). 
 

And yes, the same holds true for any other issue that involve the actions of external factors. Whether it’s a FTA negotiation, a salary negotiation, a product development, or a pandemic. Being in charge means anticipating and managing external factors, not letting it happen and then blaming what was your job to manage. 

 

You gotta do your homework. The EU can’t keep anyone “on the hook with a transition period”. That was the UK’s decision. 
 

 

 

You are gong round in circles here. They are negotiations between two parties, in which EU is not in control anymore. Keep going. 

 

So the EU didn't take the ongoing contributions and continued imposition of all their rules & regulations, since 29th March 2017? Mandatory two years plus extensions, then transition and still on the EU hook for contributions and trade.

[Loiner]

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you follow world politics? Then you should know that any American president has a lot of influence around the word. And lets not forget that many think they are the leader of the world.

By now even Trump should have noticed that the word does not want his leadership. But obviously that does not prevent his supporters to try to reelect him. Because they obviously look only at American and what they somehow think MAGA.

Not interested. Nothing to do with real UK folk.

Try and keep your anti Trump stuff to one of the other threads. There's plenty of them.

[Loiner]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If there is a plan can you please describe it in a few words. Because "taking back control" is not a plan.

All evidence shows that the UK has no realistic plan. They might have a "plan" like "we want it all, we want it now". But by now they should realize that that won't happen. And it won't happen with the EU, USA, China, etc..

Sorry, I can't describe it because they didn't tell me either. And I'm British, so you have no chance. Why do you think they would broadcast to every man and his dog?
What's your evidence for no realistic plan? You must be a fly on the wall in some important rooms.

[OneMoreFarang]

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Not interested.

Thanks for summing up your mind.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Sorry, I can't describe it because they didn't tell me either. And I'm British,

It seems you support a UK government which had the plan to leave the EU and which promised to make great trade deals with everybody. But you didn't ask or even think that it is important to know how that bright future will look like. I have to warn you, you might find out that the alternative to the EU is not any better than the EU. But then again if you would inform yourself and listen then you would know that already.

[JonnyF]

The UK wants a simple free trade deal. Like the others we have signed around the world. Like the EU has with Canada.

 

The EU wants to continue to control the laws and regulations in the UK, continue to have majority access to UK fishing waters and continue to sell all their stuff to us while stifling our ability to trade with the rest of the world.

 

Hence, it is the EU that is being unrealistic, not the UK.

 

No Deal it is then. Finally! A clean Brexit ????. WTO. Marvellous! 

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems you support a UK government which had the plan to leave the EU and which promised to make great trade deals with everybody. But you didn't ask or even think that it is important to know how that bright future will look like. I have to warn you, you might find out that the alternative to the EU is not any better than the EU. But then again if you would inform yourself and listen then you would know that already.

The plan was to Leave. Legally we have already achieved that part and the future is looking great. 

Like I'd believe a warning about our future from some random on a forum. Yeah.

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems you support a UK government which had the plan to leave the EU and which promised to make great trade deals with everybody. But you didn't ask or even think that it is important to know how that bright future will look like. I have to warn you, you might find out that the alternative to the EU is not any better than the EU. But then again if you would inform yourself and listen then you would know that already.

Trade deals are going fine thanks. Many signed already. Many more in the pipeline. It's only the EU (surprise surprise) that is causing problems. But wait until January 2021 when the fishermen start rioting, and German car exports plummet. They'll be baying for Barnier's blood. 4 years and he ended up with nothing. Over-reached and got SFA. What a mug.

[Logosone]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In my understanding the majority of UK subjects wished to leave the EU because of it's IMO barking policy on illegal immigration. All the huffing and puffing about trade does not change that.

Yes of course the decision to leave the EU was based on a rejection of immigration. While the UK portrays itself as the historic haven for immigrants the British people themselves were simply not prepared to allow East European, Arab or African migrants anymore. No wonder that asylum applications were mostly for Germany, Italy, France and even Greece had more applications. Ultimately that is an understandable position by the UK electorate, because it's not as if the UK has no immigrants, there are a considerable number.

 

However, Europe is so attractive that migrants just keep coming, from Eastern Europe, the middle east and Africa. The EU is blinded by ideology, as always. They allow people like Pia Klemp to bring in African, Arab and East European migrants, due to a humanist philosophy. I lived in Germany. I saw first hand how a German city with a miniscule number of immigrants was suddenly populated with Africans in large numbers, and yes gang rape happened in that city too. The EU has a problem in that regard. But I fear the EU has learned nothing from this last gift of the British, to point to this immigration issue. Still the likes of Pia Klemp drop migrants on the EU's doorstep regardless of resources or consequences. The EU has a problem in that regard.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44660699

Edited September 2, 2020 by Logosone

[Henryford]

What  "attitude" is that? the fact we are not willing to surrender (like the French).

[Loiner]

25 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks for summing up your mind.

You're welcome.????

 

Pssst.... while you are here, can you give me the details of Barnier's plan. I know some blokes who would be interested in that. The EU probably tells you everything before they do it, you being an EU subject an' all.

[IvorBiggun2]

On 8/31/2020 at 5:49 PM, Bluespunk said:

Brexiteers being unrealistic and intransigent!!!!!

 

And Remainers would have just rolled over and let the EU tickle their bellies.  

[Rookiescot]

25 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Trade deals are going fine thanks. Many signed already. Many more in the pipeline. It's only the EU (surprise surprise) that is causing problems. But wait until January 2021 when the fishermen start rioting, and German car exports plummet. They'll be baying for Barnier's blood. 4 years and he ended up with nothing. Over-reached and got SFA. What a mug.

So which of our major trading partners have we reached a trade agreement with? Its all very well having concluded such deals with Andorra, Lichtenstein and the Faeroe islands but I cant help but feel its going to be a tad inadequate to make up for the deals we dont have.   

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

And Remainers would have just rolled over and let the EU tickle their bellies.  

Ah, another brexiteer myth. 

[IvorBiggun2]

Myth??????

[Bluespunk]

Yes

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So which of our major trading partners have we reached a trade agreement with? Its all very well having concluded such deals with Andorra, Lichtenstein and the Faeroe islands but I cant help but feel its going to be a tad inadequate to make up for the deals we dont have.   

I've posted the list many times, if you have memory issues that's not my problem.

 

We haven't even left yet and we've signed around 20. Many more on the verge of being signed. Also, are you aware that the EU doesn't have trade deals with many of it's major trading partners?

 

In fact, come Jan 2021 they will have no deal to speak of with it's top 3 trading partners. Given Barnier's negotiation skills I can't say I'm surprised, but given the amount of trade done on WTO terms it's not a huge issue for the EU any more than it will be for the UK.

 

[Logosone]

9 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

We haven't even left yet and we've signed around 20. Many more on the verge of being signed.

Yes, it's just a shame that trade deals themselves do not boost the UK economy. In fact South Korea, one of the countries that you signed a trade deal with has already said that in a case of a no deal Brexit they will reduce business with the UK.

 

Just having trade deals alone will not boost the UK economy, I'm afraid.

 

Dr Tony Michell, the Seoul-based Asian managing director of the Euro-Asian Business Consultancy, warns that in the worst-case scenario of a below par EU-UK deal, trade with South Korea could be reduced.

 

Companies like Hyundai, the multinational car manufacturer, who made their products in the EU for export to the UK, will be watching developments closely.

 

“For Hyundai the UK is a very good market but if the UK is going to be stupid about what kind of agreement it has with the EU, then the Hyundai car market can be wrecked,” he warns.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/06/success-uk-south-korea-trade-deal-tied-up-eu/

 

Not just do trade deals by themselves not boost the UK economy, but take the South Korean trade deal which was sold as a giant triumph and benefit for UK business. What is this great benefit for UK business? Well, that UK business can sell products on exactly the same terms as they could before. So huge win then.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Logosone

[Rookiescot]

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I've posted the list many times, if you have memory issues that's not my problem.

 

We haven't even left yet and we've signed around 20. Many more on the verge of being signed. Also, are you aware that the EU doesn't have trade deals with many of it's major trading partners?

 

In fact, come Jan 2021 they will have no deal to speak of with it's top 3 trading partners. Given Barnier's negotiation skills I can't say I'm surprised, but given the amount of trade done on WTO terms it's not a huge issue for the EU any more than it will be for the UK.

 

But the EU will still have a huge domestic market. The UK will not.

When you look at total trade for the EU the UK market it accounts for 12.6% of its total exports and 10% of imports. A sizable chunk no doubt.

When you look at total trade for the UK into the EU it accounts for 43% of our exports and 47% of our imports. Thats not a sizable chunk. Thats almost half.

Im afraid deals with Andorra and Lichtenstein are not going to help much at all are they? 

 

[JonnyF]

27 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Yes, it's just a shame that trade deals themselves do not boost the UK economy. In fact South Korea, one of the countries that you signed a trade deal with has already said that in a case of a no deal Brexit they will reduce business with the UK.

 

Just having trade deals alone will not boost the UK economy, I'm afraid.

 

Dr Tony Michell, the Seoul-based Asian managing director of the Euro-Asian Business Consultancy, warns that in the worst-case scenario of a below par EU-UK deal, trade with South Korea could be reduced.

 

Companies like Hyundai, the multinational car manufacturer, who made their products in the EU for export to the UK, will be watching developments closely.

 

“For Hyundai the UK is a very good market but if the UK is going to be stupid about what kind of agreement it has with the EU, then the Hyundai car market can be wrecked,” he warns.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/06/success-uk-south-korea-trade-deal-tied-up-eu/

 

Not just do trade deals by themselves not boost the UK economy, but take the South Korean trade deal which was sold as a giant triumph and benefit for UK business. What is this great benefit for UK business? Well, that UK business can sell products on exactly the same terms as they could before. So huge win then.

As I've said before, the only up side of the EU is the trade deals they have. It started as a trading block after all. Everything else that came later is the down side.

 

So yes, if we can leave and replicate all those deals then we've removed the down sides and kept the upside. A massive win.

 

Regain our fishing waters, regain control of borders, regain sovereignty, make independent trade deals around the world, stop participating in the EU's transfer of wealth scheme to the poorer southern/eastern "states" etc etc.

 

It's hilarious that people claim replicating the EU's deals with third parties while outside the EU isn't a huge win. It's massive. It's perfect. It's exactly what we want. That's why they want to tie us up in all their red tape after we've left. Because they know that once the shackles are off they have a huge problem with a competitor right on their doorstep. They've even admitted it. Imagine if we replicate all the deals they made and then add our own with the US, Australia, NZ etc. That's their biggest nightmare and exactly why they are desperate to keep us on the level playing field.

 

And guess what, it's happening as we speak. Sure it's slow, trade deals are always slow. But it's happening. We just have to hold our nerve and leave with a clean Brexit in December.

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

But the EU will still have a huge domestic market. The UK will not.

When you look at total trade for the EU the UK market it accounts for 12.6% of its total exports and 10% of imports. A sizable chunk no doubt.

When you look at total trade for the UK into the EU it accounts for 43% of our exports and 47% of our imports. Thats not a sizable chunk. Thats almost half.

Im afraid deals with Andorra and Lichtenstein are not going to help much at all are they? 

 

Trade deals can help if they are good deals, that's why we're currently deep in talks with the likes of the US, Australia, Japan. We've taken the EU blinkers off and we're opening ourselves up with a truly global outlook. And the EU are bricking it. Once out of their failing protectionist racket we'll go from strength to strength and they know it, hence the request to handcuff us in their level playing field.

 

However, as I demonstrated with my graphic it's still possible to do massive amounts of trade on WTO. Trade doesn't stop because of a lack of a free trade deal. That 43% won't stop overnight. It may have tariffs, it may reduce to the EU and increase to non EU countries. We have too many eggs in that EU basket anyway, I'd rather start diversifying and this is the perfect opportunity. When the EU crumbles (it's started already), we don't want to go down with it.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

The plan was to Leave. Legally we have already achieved that part and the future is looking great. 

Like I'd believe a warning about our future from some random on a forum. Yeah.

You could believe the experts, or at least listen to them.

And no, Boris is no expert.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

But wait until January 2021 when the fishermen start rioting

And don't forget the London bankers.

But then again, they probably won't riot, they just leave the UK and won't pay taxes anymore - at least not in the UK. So sad. ???? 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

You're welcome.????

 

Pssst.... while you are here, can you give me the details of Barnier's plan. I know some blokes who would be interested in that. The EU probably tells you everything before they do it, you being an EU subject an' all.

The EU published their plans. You can look it up everywhere.

And pssst, there is no hidden plan B to make Boris happy in the last minute.