Thai govt eyes new visa rules in bid to woo investors

[aussienam]

Well, <deleted>.  Sold my condo in 2018 at a loss, but was falling apart and only 4 years old.  Lost $15,000 in capital loss but could have been a lot more but high Thai Baht mitigated loss on exchange rate. 

My big concern is the glut in condos and economic uncertainty, the economic damage to Thai economy - predictions of direction of condo prices anyone from any savvy economists? High Baht makes it tricky to smartly invest with foreign currency unless you derive income from Thailand, then are we at the bottom of property market? Or is an impending property crash coming? I don't know but most of us would be feeling a bit nervous. 

[aussienam]

1 hour ago, Poet said:

We know that a huge number of Thai and Chinese condo buyers have already started defaulted on their monthly payments, realizing that Airbnb rentals are no longer viable. Many are simply writing off the 30% they originally paid and walking away.

This means that the Thai banks, who were already sitting on a huge amount of repossessed property, will now have a ridiculous amount. This is going to be significantly worse that the crash of '97. Much of the bank's supposed liquidity is based on counting the property already on their books at it's full original value (yes, this would be fraud in any other country), the government will be under tremendous pressures to prop up the property market.

I have no doubt that the government will introduce another residence scheme for condo buyers, but it will only apply to those being sold by either the banks or particularly well-connected development companies. The prices will be based on the pre-covid market. What you will receive will be a 5-year Elite visa, worth 500,000. Commenters here on TVF will be disappointed to note that it would be cheaper to buy a condo on the regular market and buy your Elite visa separately. The scheme organizers will, however, decorate the marketing with golden dragons and the Chinese will love it.


 

Problem with condos in Thailand is compliance by owners in paying yearly maintenance fees.  Wish Thai government made it easier to seize properties from non-compliant owners Maintenance then deteriorates. If borrowers defaulting then it's scary to think how the places can be maintained by Juristic.  Plus high Baht against many foreign currencies. Millionaires unaffected by COVID19 may not care though. Would be a cheaper way than those using the 20 year Elite visa and you get permanent residency after 5 years. 

May anger some Elite visa holders who have already paid up millions of baht with no return on a non-investment, now seeing what they could have done instead!!!! But they are rich anyway probably.  

[Veritas48]

I have been married to my Thai wife for 27 years now and I lived there for 12 years but my status with Thai Immigration remains the same......................................Farang/Tourist.

[GeorgeCross]

27 minutes ago, connda said:

In nature, a symbiotic relationship is a long-term survival strategy, much better the draining the life out of your host which seems to be the goal of most new immigration regulations targeting foreigners. 

"You have to buy this from that Thai company, and deposit this much with that Thai bank, and give this much of your ownership rights to those native Thais, - and you need to shoulder all the risk.  And if there is a global pandemic or other emergency?  You'll need to pay this much to that special hotel, and book transportation with these special companies, and submit these special documents to those agencies - and Oh! make sure you buy $100,000 Covid insurance from one of these Thai companies who we have promised some of the cream that we'll be render from your carcass.  And be aware, we may simply chose to not let you back into the country.  <smirk, laugh>
And don't worry - we'll think of other ways to sear the remaining fat off of your bones before we discard the husk of what is left."

In parasitic relationships, the host isn't necessarily the only one who dies.  Symbiosis is a better strategy!  But here?  Xenophobic fear and loathing gets the best of them and it's right back to looking for ways to suck the life out of the host while making the host think that they are being fed.

 

jay-sus, i thought i was cynical 

 

[ChipButty]

50 minutes ago, Caldera said:

If they give me PR for buying a condo, I would seriously consider taking that offer.

 

That being said, I realize that there's usually a big difference between such a headline statement and the actual implementation. If it materializes at all, that is.

Yep, read the small print

[86Tiger]

5 minutes ago, Veritas48 said:

I have been married to my Thai wife for 27 years now and I lived there for 12 years but my status with Thai Immigration remains the same......................................Farang/Tourist.

That is really a sad statement on the entire immigration system.  With no relief in our lifetime most likely.

[Mavideol]

8 minutes ago, Veritas48 said:

I have been married to my Thai wife for 27 years now and I lived there for 12 years but my status with Thai Immigration remains the same......................................Farang/Tourist.

and I always thought we were called "guests" 555

[GeorgeCross]

7 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

and I always thought we were called "guests" 555

 

guests on a good day, aliens on the others..

 

 

[madisongy]

Hmmm..........if they don't include those who already own condos, we'll transfer to my sister in law, and "buy" it back from her.  

[Poet]

54 minutes ago, aussienam said:

Would be a cheaper way than those using the 20 year Elite visa and you get permanent residency after 5 years. 

Actually, I'm suggesting that, under the current nationalistic junta, despite the economic crisis they are facing, permanent residence won't even be on the cards. That is why I think they will specifically offer the 5yr Elite Visa. They cannot help themselves, they will half-ass this as they do everything else.
 

Anyone buying a condo or making any sort of investment should be aware that there is absolutely zero guarantee that any of us, even retirees, with their yearly extensions, will be allowed to stay longterm. This goes beyond economics for these gangsters.

 

[Andrew65]

9 hours ago, bodga said:

they tried something  like this  years  ago if  you spent 3  million on a  condo   except  no permanent residence, I have 7  in my Wife's  name guess they wont  let me  be permanent then!

Later they  will change the rules leaving owners high and dry after theyve  suckered them in and theyve spent their  cash. just  like last time.

If you have 7 in your wife's name, you don't have them. Your wife can't be a 'nominee'.

[jonclark]

Maybe instead of trying to 'woo investors' the givernment focuses on the large number of foreign 'guests' that currently live here they might actually get more sustainable investment / income stream. The probelm with investors is they are in it for a profit. As is self evident by the fact they are investors, and are likely to move on when the situation deteriorates or their venture goes south. PR is an irrelevence. 

 

I feel the government needs to clarify what it thinks an investor is. A person who buys a single condo is not an investor, unless they are buying the condo or multiple condos to rent out to Thais. 

 

PR to people who live here with wives and families is a much more pragmatic way to ensure investment from the foreign community and with PR it opens up foreigners being more able to get loans from banks, which can be leveraged for new SME's. 

[TERMINATOR3AB]

The more I read  about Thailand  the  less I  would ever want to  live there  ( totally  ruined  by the idiots  who  control and  run  it !!! )

Soon  as I  can  my wife  will sell her Condo  I  bought  for  her and  she  wants to  live in Australia  ( Only  24 million in whole  counrty)

Who would blame her (  Beautiful  people mostly....free  medical  ...free   Social  Security  ....Low  cost housing for the  lower  income )

Australia  is like  living in heaven  compared to Thailand  sorry  but it is  very true (ref to QLD) where I live (Speak English  too  ...lol )

Our  north  is  as  beautiful  as any place in Thailand  mate  a lot  bigger   and a lot  cleaner  and  a  hell of  a lot  better and private 

Good  Luck Thailand 

[ChipButty]

57 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

and I always thought we were called "guests" 555

No, Aliens

[DaftToPutRealName]

3 hours ago, Poet said:

We know that a huge number of Thai and Chinese condo buyers have already started defaulted on their monthly payments, realizing that Airbnb rentals are no longer viable. Many are simply writing off the 30% they originally paid and walking away.

This means that the Thai banks, who were already sitting on a huge amount of repossessed property, will now have a ridiculous amount. This is going to be significantly worse that the crash of '97. Much of the bank's supposed liquidity is based on counting the property already on their books at it's full original value (yes, this would be fraud in any other country), the government will be under tremendous pressures to prop up the property market.

I have no doubt that the government will introduce another residence scheme for condo buyers, but it will only apply to those being sold by either the banks or particularly well-connected development companies. The prices will be based on the pre-covid market. What you will receive will be a 5-year Elite visa, worth 500,000. Commenters here on TVF will be disappointed to note that it would be cheaper to buy a condo on the regular market and buy your Elite visa separately. The scheme organizers will, however, decorate the marketing with golden dragons and the Chinese will love it.


 

Don't forget the gold bars they'll hand out on signing over.

[Sheryl]

PR for everyone who buys a condo (without requirement of having worked and paid taxes) would be welcome. They should also remove the "worked and paid taxes" requirement for PR on basis of investment.  It makes no sense, investors are unlikely to be employees in Thailand.

 

Reduce the threshold for PR on basis of investment for long term residents here (retirees and those with Thai families) would also be wise and bring in more investment. the 10 million threshold is out of reach even for most of the more affluent retirees but say 5 million could be.

[KKr]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

The government’s Centre for Economic Situation Administration (CESA) on Wednesday (September 16) approved in principle amendments to the criteria of granting permanent residence and smart visa to foreigners in a bid to woo more investment, the National Economic and Social Development Council's deputy secretary-general Danucha Pichayanan said.

 

my 2-cents:
to woo investors:
give investment incentives.
to allow permanent residency:
set a time limit of permanently having Thailand as main residence, p.e. seven years on retirement or marriage extensions (and possibly others extensions or work permits or combination of those).
Smart Visa: not eligible by default. ????
Working Permit: allow for those on Marriage extensions.

[chilli42]

Well should be a hit with Chinese and Indians.  They are buying the condos anyway.  May as well toss in a resident visa with that.

[timewilltell]

Thailand is not fit for purpose for any foreign investor. Not only are the files totally fluid but the law is as well. Since law is the basis of contracts which are the basis for business and since the laws and courts are made to benefit Thais and marginalise foreigbers as well as being riddled with muddled thinking, lack of certainty, corruption and unfairness no foreigner should invest anything. Holiday yes - invest - you'll lose it. Hyoed up penny shares are safer but I wouldn't advise them either.

[LivinLOS]

10 hours ago, ukrules said:

I'd like to find out how many 'smart visas' have been issued since it was introduced...I suspect it's either zero or very close to zero.

I have actually encountered quite a few digital workers on BOI sponsored smart visas of multi year duration. 

 

Surprised me also. 

 

[micmichd]

4 hours ago, Susco said:

But you're not in Germany anymore Fritz, this is Thailand and the Thaivisa forum

True. 

But most of Thaivisa members were formerly EU citizens. And German laws are now in concordance with EU laws. Until further notice when the EU breaks down. 

And - as Eurasian as I am - I was raised with Brits and studied in multicultural London. 

 

Rgds. Fritz 

[overherebc]

28 minutes ago, KKr said:

my 2-cents:
to woo investors:
give investment incentives.
to allow permanent residency:
set a time limit of permanently having Thailand as main residence, p.e. seven years on retirement or marriage extensions (and possibly others extensions or work permits or combination of those).
Smart Visa: not eligible by default. ????
Working Permit: allow for those on Marriage extensions.

Work permit has been possible on married extensions for years.

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

If they give me PR for buying a condo, I would seriously consider taking that offer.

 

That being said, I realize that there's usually a big difference between such a headline statement and the actual implementation. If it materializes at all, that is.

100%.. 

 

If I can get PR for buying a condo (and its say a 5m condo not some minimum 15 plus bait ans switch headline) I will absolutely get one just to rent out. PR is a very nice security against marriage failure or death of a partner if you have significant assets incountry. 

Back in the 97 crisis they sold investor PR the same way, but it had IIRC a 40m minimum investment, Geoff of the Yorkshire Inn on Patong beach had utilized that system. He always said he owned 1 rai under his home (with another 2 rai of the plot not owned but company owned) also due to that offer. 

[Mark17AA]

Smart and Thailand - mentioned in the same paragraph, no need for me to read further, its already impossible!

[SupermarineS6B]

There y'all go again planning on jumping through hoops, you're nuts..... Just wait till the shooting calms down and all the uniforms have ran away (As they always do)  then we'll all get back in just as it was before when Thailand used to be a pleasure to travel in until this bunch of chancers turned up...... The country's on its knees and if the shiny button mob don't go soon then they'll be boiled and eaten by the starving population.....  I hear Wu han's good this time of the year boys.........  Just wait and watch the show.......  

[wolf81]

1 hour ago, TERMINATOR3AB said:

The more I read  about Thailand  the  less I  would ever want to  live there  ( totally  ruined  by the idiots  who  control and  run  it !!! )

Soon  as I  can  my wife  will sell her Condo  I  bought  for  her and  she  wants to  live in Australia  ( Only  24 million in whole  counrty)

Who would blame her (  Beautiful  people mostly....free  medical  ...free   Social  Security  ....Low  cost housing for the  lower  income )

Australia  is like  living in heaven  compared to Thailand  sorry  but it is  very true (ref to QLD) where I live (Speak English  too  ...lol )

Our  north  is  as  beautiful  as any place in Thailand  mate  a lot  bigger   and a lot  cleaner  and  a  hell of  a lot  better and private 

Good  Luck Thailand 

Sure but how are the Thai massages in northern Australia? Do you have nice gogo bars there? And how about Thai food? 

[Pattaya46]

8 hours ago, baansgr said:

And once the pandemic is over, will they revoke your PR. After the 97 crash, some condos were allowed 100% Foreign ownership, only for that being revoked at a later date....hence a Foreigner selling their "Foreign" condo, could only sell to a Thai or company.

Fully false information. Condos bought "over quota" in this 4 years period keep their foreign ownership right as long as they are owned/sold/bought by foreigners.

I should know. I bought and sold 2 such condos in foreign name/quota, in Center Condo Pattaya with a current foreign quota still about 60% (and then over 49%)

[DrTuner]

No, it's not the visa. It's that getting PR requires three years of tax receipts, 100% company ownership is only available through BOI, you can't own land, etc.

 

Visas are just an initial annoyance. It all needs to be redesigned.

[DrTuner]

8 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Its certainly a way to sell these condos and if foreign buyers are being offered  a hassles longterm visa staying option its interesting but the devil is in the details and why not have offered it 7 years ago ? 

Investment category for PR has existed for a long time. But it's blocked by the demand for three years of tax receipts.

[Jimbo2014]

Back to flogging off visas for Condos - times are tough ????