EU-bound trucks from UK could face two-day delays after Brexit, Britain says

[candide]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

 

 

Hey, I can read and it shows only 45% of the food supplied is imported. How does that looks that read 80% for you? I can count too - can you?
Not fact, but more Euro lies and propaganda. You don't 

I check which source it was, but I didn't find the original HSBC report.

https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/no-deal-brexit-percentage-british-food-imported-shortages-2019-1

 

[plentyofnuttin]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Really?

The Irish Freedom Party

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0428/1135186-european-union/

[Loiner]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

I check which source it was, but I didn't find the original HSBC report.

https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/no-deal-brexit-percentage-british-food-imported-shortages-2019-1

 

This is simply wrong. And it's French. Maybe that's why.
Total rubbish which even says there would be a shortage of truck and drivers. They could train monkeys to be drivers, just like they even have Europeans behind the wheel.

[luckyluke]

7 minutes ago, Loiner said:

I am sure there are some EU demands that will be conceded. There are plenty of people involved and must be thousands of items, so some may even be acceptable to both parties. Of course we never get to know what goes on in the negotiations, regardless of what some Remainers and Euros claim. 

The outrageous ones which obviously won't be capitulated to are our fish and the inappropriately named level playing field, including all that would come with it.

They can't all be sitting at the table saying "Non."

Fair enough if that's what you think and hope.

 

Many years ago I was, professionally, regularly involved in commercial negotiations.

 

I quickly learned that no discussion point is incontrovertible.

 

All depends is what is given in lieu of.

 

[candide]

16 minutes ago, Loiner said:

This is simply wrong. And it's French. Maybe that's why.
Total rubbish which even says there would be a shortage of truck and drivers. They could train monkeys to be drivers, just like they even have Europeans behind the wheel.

That's the guy who made the report:

Dave McCarthy

Head of Consumer Retail Europe at HSBC, HSBC, Brighton, United Kingdom

 

I could not get the report so I cannot check how he calculated it.

[Loiner]

20 minutes ago, candide said:

That's the guy who made the report:

Dave McCarthy

Head of Consumer Retail Europe at HSBC, HSBC, Brighton, United Kingdom

 

I could not get the report so I cannot check how he calculated it.

Bit of a wild assed guess, plus a dash of alarmist misinformation, then double the wild assed guess number and there's the percentage. Easy when it comes to propaganda. The French and Vichy Remainers will love it.

[candide]

6 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Bit of a wild assed guess, plus a dash of alarmist misinformation, then double the wild assed guess number and there's the percentage. Easy when it comes to propaganda. The French and Vichy Remainers will love it.

It's not a French source. Business insiders has several versions fr nl uk etc... I just came on the fr site because my vpn was set to French server.

Having said that, the guy from HSBC may be wrong. I cannot tell because I cannot check his methodology.

[tomacht8]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

 

 

Hey, I can read and it shows only 45% of the food supplied is imported. How does that looks that read 80% for you? I can count too - can you?
Not fact, but more Euro lies and propaganda. You don't 

It depends on the statistical approach. 45% UK Foodimports is based on the finished product consumed. However, if you include the imported preliminary products, you come to different results. A Mars chocolate bar is 100% made in the UK. If this bar is consumed in the UK, its value is not recorded as an imported product. However:

 

Take a typical biscuit-containing chocolate bar from a British shop, manufactured in a British factory. It contains sugar, cocoa, milk, whey, wheat, yeast, salt, palm oil and calcium sulphate (a nutritional additive) which are sourced from all over the world. For instance, the salt may come from China; calcium sulphate from India; palm oil from Southeast Asia; whey from New Zealand; milk and wheat from the EU; sugar from the Caribbean; and, of course, cocoa for the actual chocolate from South America.

 

The UK figures are based on trade balances and do not take into account the self-sufficient approach of a closed trading state.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

No matter how many times you try to twist it, you are still barking up the wrong tree. Now we are out of the EU, and will be fully out by year end, we do not have to import all our good under the Common External Tariff. Goods will be cheaper, especially foodstuffs. The UK Global Tariff (UKGT) will replace the EU's Common External Tariff from 1st January 2021 and in almost every case is less than the EU takes from us. Note, that the tariff is not lost in the EU's grubby coffers either.

There are already trade agreements in place, more are being negotiated and more will be made as soon as the new year arrives.

Yes, in many cases involving foodstuffs, the new UKGT will be lower than the CET but you ignore 1) that the UKGT will be levied on EU produce which currently, of course, is tariff-free. In 2019, this represented 26% of food consumed in the UK. 2) Notwithstanding the fact that many foodstuffs are perishable and it may not be possible to re-source certain goods e.g. soft fruit without the quality suffering, will the differences in tariff rates - in many cases less than 1% - be enough to offset the inevitable increase in logistical costs e.g. transport? Doubtful.

 

According to the FT (yep, them again) it is likely that prices in the supermarket will increase.

https://www.ft.com/content/057460b4-3716-4ab5-bd08-a1c2eca56983

 

I wish you luck in eliminating all EU produce from your shopping. You'll be spending a lot of time reading food labels.

 

You seem very confident about more trade deals being in place by 1/1/21. Any sources that you would care to share? Unfortunately, with +/-3 months to go until the end of transition, the trade deals that really matter i.e. with the EU and US don't look anything like 'oven ready'.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, tomacht8 said:

It depends on the statistical approach. 45% UK Foodimports is based on the finished product consumed. However, if you include the imported preliminary products, you come to different results. A Mars chocolate bar is 100% made in the UK. If this bar is consumed in the UK, its value is not recorded as an imported product. However:

 

Take a typical biscuit-containing chocolate bar from a British shop, manufactured in a British factory. It contains sugar, cocoa, milk, whey, wheat, yeast, salt, palm oil and calcium sulphate (a nutritional additive) which are sourced from all over the world. For instance, the salt may come from China; calcium sulphate from India; palm oil from Southeast Asia; whey from New Zealand; milk and wheat from the EU; sugar from the Caribbean; and, of course, cocoa for the actual chocolate from South America.

 

The UK figures are based on trade balances and do not take into account the self-sufficient approach of a closed trading state.

Unprocessed food. It's still only 45% imported.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Yes, in many cases involving foodstuffs, the new UKGT will be lower than the CET but you ignore 1) that the UKGT will be levied on EU produce which currently, of course, is tariff-free. In 2019, this represented 26% of food consumed in the UK. 2) Notwithstanding the fact that many foodstuffs are perishable and it may not be possible to re-source certain goods e.g. soft fruit without the quality suffering, will the differences in tariff rates - in many cases less than 1% - be enough to offset the inevitable increase in logistical costs e.g. transport? Doubtful.

 

According to the FT (yep, them again) it is likely that prices in the supermarket will increase.

https://www.ft.com/content/057460b4-3716-4ab5-bd08-a1c2eca56983

 

I wish you luck in eliminating all EU produce from your shopping. You'll be spending a lot of time reading food labels.

 

You seem very confident about more trade deals being in place by 1/1/21. Any sources that you would care to share? Unfortunately, with +/-3 months to go until the end of transition, the trade deals that really matter i.e. with the EU and US don't look anything like 'oven ready'.

I'll just look at the cheaper prices thanks. 

 

The trade deals keep appearing every so often and I'm confident there will be more before we are fully out. Sources are the announcements when they are done. Just like that last Japanese one. Would your inside information show you that there are no trade deals being negotiated at this very moment?

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, puipuitom said:

A unification is a matter for the people of these potential con-federation members. I do not think, it will be easy. But the consequence of NOT doing so, is a EU-outer border somewhere, what many will not like. Aside of N Ireland , Scotland ( and Wales ?) being stuck with the English on the high waves, ruled by Britannia - Westminster..

What on earth was that all about? Was this supposed to answer my question about 436k job losses? 

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

He only counts one side of the equation (the losses) . He doesn't count the jobs that replaced them, which when included in the equation actually shows unemployment decreasing by 1.1%. Yet he has the nerve to call Brexiteers stupid.????

 

It has been said that Dianne Abbott ruthlessly mocks his mathematical abilities.

Seriously, if you read what that anti-Brexit site used to calculate Brexit job losses you'll have a good laugh. It reads like it was written by a bunch of angry school kids. 

And yes, they conveniently ignore jobs that were created. You have to feel sorry for them really ????

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, RayC said:

Possibly but then again, any divorce between NI and the rest of the UK will take time to resolve.

 

If Brexit has taught us only one thing, it's that these types of separations are messy and time-consuming (ok, that's two things????)

Possibly, but that's not a good reason to not do something you believe in passionately. Just ask the Scots Indy brigade. They know it won't be easy to break up the union, but are willing to push for it anyway (while at the same time telling us how difficult Brexit is). 

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, Phulublub said:

Of course, the Government has hired and trained up plenty of customs officials to check all this paperwork haven't they?

 

PH

Why do that now? They could hire them after the end of Oct when we'll know where we stand. There will be plenty of people looking for work because of Covid, and it would only require 3-4 weeks training. 

If the government hired these people now there would be uproar from remainers / Labour / the BBC about wasting tax payers' money. 

[tomacht8]

21 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Unprocessed food. It's still only 45% imported.

It depends on the recording and evaluation method. Here is the disputed source. If all of the UK's borders were closed overnight. The UK would not achieve a self-sufficiency rate of 55%. 

The UK numbers are based on trading numbers from freely accessible markets.

https://www.businessinsider.com/no-deal-brexit-percentage-british-food-imported-shortages-2019-1

[elliss]

All, I can say is ,

  I have departed UK , for better or worse .

 I do not use my vote in UK , elections . 

  I am of the opinion , that people resident in UK, should determine their destiny / fate ..

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by elliss

[RayC]

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

I'll just look at the cheaper prices thanks. 

Then for foodstuffs - especially fresh products - you will probably be eating EU produce. Enjoy.

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

The trade deals keep appearing every so often and I'm confident there will be more before we are fully out.

How many trade deals (other than EU roll-overs) so far? Two?

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

Sources are the announcements when they are done.

I think that we are all capable of reading about something after the event.

 

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

Just like that last Japanese one.

Oh yeah. That Japanese deal which limits the amount of state aid the UK can offer. One of the things that the "unreasonable" EU has demanded and which you object to.

https://www.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178

 

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Would your inside information show you that there are no trade deals being negotiated at this very moment?

Going down the 'prove the negative' route? The burden of proof is on you to substantiate your claim, not me to refute.  Given the lack of evidence, I can only conclude that your confidence is based upon wishful thinking.

[RayC]

18 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Possibly, but that's not a good reason to not do something you believe in passionately. Just ask the Scots Indy brigade. They know it won't be easy to break up the union, but are willing to push for it anyway (while at the same time telling us how difficult Brexit is). 

And equally, just believing passionately in something is not, in itself, a good enough reason to do it.

 

Passion may be commendable in many cases, and may even in some cases be sufficient. However, I'd suggest that more often than not, passion has to be tempered by realism. 

[tomacht8]

51 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Unprocessed food. It's still only 45% imported.

A simple example.

A milk chocolate bar:

Sales price 1 pound sterling net.

 

Imported Ingredients: Milk for 10 pence Chocolate beans for 20 pence.

 

The Milk chocolate bar produced and sold in the UK for £ 1.

 

Then does the UK have a self-sufficiency rate of 70% ????

 

 

[luckyluke]

53 minutes ago, RayC said:

Passion may be commendable in many cases, and may even in some cases be sufficient. However, I'd suggest that more often than not, passion has to be tempered by realism. 

For sure the Brexiters here are extremely optimistic. 

 

Is that a bad or a good thing? 

 

Well, It's a specific approach. 

 

I have the tendency to be negative. 

 

If indeed my expectations prove to be negative, I am not surprised. 

 

If positive I am a very happy man. 

 

My Thai wife is the opposite, so when things turn out to be positive she is indifferent, as she expected it. 

 

When negative, she is devastated. 

 

Mostly she try than to put  the blame on me. 

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, RayC said:

And equally, just believing passionately in something is not, in itself, a good enough reason to do it.

 

Passion may be commendable in many cases, and may even in some cases be sufficient. However, I'd suggest that more often than not, passion has to be tempered by realism. 

Are you talking to Brexiteers or Scots Indys? ????

[david555]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/25/will-notsign-trade-deal-gun-still-table-say-eu-sources/

 

We will not sign a trade deal while there is a 'gun still on the table', say EU sources

UK officials say the controversial Internal Market Bill could be amended if an agreement is agreed by the October EU summit in Brussels

 

By James Crisp, Brussels Correspondent 25 September 2020 • 6:01pm

 

 

The “tide may be turning” in the Brexit negotiations after the UK signalled its commitment to sealing a free trade deal with the EU, Brussels sources said on Friday....

[candide]

5 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

A simple example.

A milk chocolate bar:

Sales price 1 pound sterling net.

 

Imported Ingredients: Milk for 10 pence Chocolate beans for 20 pence.

 

The Milk chocolate bar produced and sold in the UK for £ 1.

 

Then does the UK have a self-sufficiency rate of 70% ????

 

 

The more I think about it, the more it seems to depend about the way it is calculated, in particular about two issues:

- volume vs value. What should be counted? Welsh lamb may be more expensive than Spanish lamb, but from a nutritional  POV it's the same! French cheese may be more expensive than British cheese, one can get as drunk with cheap Polish Vodka as with expensive single malt Scotch whisky. Whether one calculates according to the number of tons or the price value will change all percentages.

- processed versus raw. How does one count a pound of raw carrots vs more expensive preserved carrots or carrot soup? Then comes the issue of the origin of ingredients. As you rightly mention, does a Mars bar count as UK food or as imported because most ingredients are imported?

Edited September 25, 2020 by candide

[Rookiescot]

8 hours ago, candide said:

The more I think about it, the more it seems to depend about the way it is calculated, in particular about two issues:

- volume vs value. What should be counted? Welsh lamb may be more expensive than Spanish lamb, but from a nutritional  POV it's the same! French cheese may be more expensive than British cheese, one can get as drunk with cheap Polish Vodka as with expensive single malt Scotch whisky. Whether one calculates according to the number of tons or the price value will change all percentages.

- processed versus raw. How does one count a pound of raw carrots vs more expensive preserved carrots or carrot soup? Then comes the issue of the origin of ingredients. As you rightly mention, does a Mars bar count as UK food or as imported because most ingredients are imported?

All this debate over the figures of imported food is asinine.

Food shortages will be character building and anyway their sovereignty will sustain them ????

[polpott]

19 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

All this debate over the figures of imported food is asinine.

Food shortages will be character building and anyway their sovereignty will sustain them ????

The Queen will come onto the balcony at Buckingham Palace and announce, "Let them eat cake".

[paddypower]

On 9/23/2020 at 11:18 PM, RayC said:

It's more anti-Johnson and anti-UK propaganda. You can tell that from the source: The British Government.

ah! you mean Minister of Environment (aka ''Hot Air'') & Member of Parliment extraordinaire, George Eustice, saying that any disruption will be DOWN TO THE EU NOT PREPARING. ?

[paddypower]

18 hours ago, Loiner said:

Bit of a wild assed guess, plus a dash of alarmist misinformation, then double the wild assed guess number and there's the percentage. Easy when it comes to propaganda. The French and Vichy Remainers will love it.

talking through your duct tape covid mask is just not working for you. Go on, blow a few quid and buy a proper mask. We are all waiting for your vitriol to get filtered out.

[rickudon]

Even if the traffic flows smoothly, tariffs on EU food will add about 2 GBP to the weekly food bill in the UK. A small price to pay for sovereignty!???? 

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, paddypower said:

talking through your duct tape covid mask is just not working for you. Go on, blow a few quid and buy a proper mask. We are all waiting for your vitriol to get filtered out.

Why don't you see if you can twist and wriggle some numbers up to 80% imported food in the UK? Just like the other two, what ever you come up with will be wrong.
How much of that 26% of EU supplied food comes from Ireland? I won't guess on a number. but it's sure to be a large dent in the Irish pockets if your EU masters don't agree to a deal. They're selling you down the Liffey.